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Post by Zanshin on Feb 20, 2012 2:00:45 GMT
I finally learned to scuba dive a little while back while on my first boat and in the BVI and have yearned for a dive compressor aboard in order to be free of the shackles of dive operators since then. Well, on the new Zanshin I finally opted to get a Bauer Junior II dive compressor and got it running a little while back and have been diving frequently since then. I love the freedom of being able to refill the 2 tanks I have while running the genset to recharge the batteries and be able to dive when and where I would like without having to join a dive group led by a dive shop. I also ended up getting an underwater housing for my camera and, in the past two weeks, have seen and taken pictures of things underwater as I never was able to before. For those interestd, click on the thumbnail to get to my site's calendar, and each date with a thumbail of an underwater image contains the pictures for that site and that day.  |
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Post by rxc on Feb 20, 2012 12:50:07 GMT
Zanshin,
How big is your genset? I have been considering something like this for a while, but every small compressor I have looked at says that it needs an 8kw genset, at least to start the compressor. My genset is only 6kw, and is therefore marginal, at best. And my wife will NOT let me replace it for this application...
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Post by Zanshin on Feb 20, 2012 13:02:49 GMT
rxc - I have a big Onan genset (either 9 or 11, depending upon which brochure you read). If you have a 6kW genset it should work, I spoke with Fischer-Panda about my last boat's 5kW genset and they said it would work if I used a soft-start kit (basically a really big capacitor off the genset) or the Victron inverter/charger (which I did have, it supplies current from the batteries via the inverter function if the start-up cranking current goes past what the genset can supply).
6kW are more than enough to run the compressor, the problem is that the startup current required is pretty high, albeit only very momentary. Which compressor do you have? Does it have soft-start or something similar? I think that the type of genset also plays a role in how it handles very short-term overloads so the manufacturer might help you decide.
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Post by rxc on Feb 20, 2012 14:52:28 GMT
I have the Northern Lights M673L2, which is rated for 6kw at 60 Hz, which is where I operate it. The manuals don't say anything about surge capability. I have it producing both 110 and 220 power, and would probably buy a 220v compressor, when the time comes, to keep the wiring at a reasonable size, and put it in one of my cockpit lockers. I have looked at both the Bauer Jr. and the Coltri-Sub. I found one Coltri document that said that a 6kW genset should be able to power the compressor, but other documents say 8kW, minmum.
I think they are being careful, to avoid getting sued by people who overload their gensets, and maybe even burn out the compressor motors, but I would really like to hear from someone who actually runs a compressor on a 6kw genset, to understand whether they do anything special. I would always start the compressor with the outlet valves open, so that the compressor motor would be unloaded, but there may be some reason that may not be a good thing for the compressor. The alternative would be a Bauer with the gas engine, but I would really like to avoid acquiring another IC engine, if possible.
In my earlier life, I used to get to very occasionally start 3 very large, specialized water pumps with their outlet valves open, and the voltage drops that occurred were truly amazing...
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Post by Tafika II on Feb 20, 2012 18:35:02 GMT
I'm jealous...no room for a dive compressor on SO42DS. Looked on your website and your picture are good. You may want to get a second strobe as this will eliminate bubbles getting lighted up. What camera and Ikelite setup do you have?
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Post by Zanshin on Feb 21, 2012 12:09:28 GMT
Tafika - I am working on the strobe arrangement, perhaps softening the light and making it come from a different angle might do more for the backscatter. I have a Nikon D7000 and an Ikelite housing with an Ikelite DS160 Strobe. The underwater housing, despite me buying it and strobe used through eBay, cost more than the camera! But it is fun to use and with the unlimited air that the compressor gives me I can sit on the bottom and wait a long time for the right picture to come along.
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Post by hoppy on Feb 22, 2012 20:09:05 GMT
I'd love to get a compressor for my SO40 but for now I can't even figure out where to store my dive gear, let alone a buddies gear and tanks.
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Post by sailbleu on Feb 23, 2012 8:24:50 GMT
I've installed mine in the port deck locker. It fitts just fine, and behind the compressor I can pile up 2 scubatanks. Also the weights are stored next to the compressor. On the pic you can see the Coltri 6m³ running while I was sailing in a Norwegian fjord coming from Mosjoen on my way up to Sandnessjoen last summer. The transparrant hose is the airsuction which is positioned outside the boat away from the exhaust. The thin brownish hose is the water/oil drain from the filter. I use a petrol engine , so there's is some noise of course. In 2010 it kept me diving along the Italian coasts. Wouldn't want to miss it , that's for sure.  Regards |
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Post by Tafika II on Feb 23, 2012 15:18:37 GMT
Sailbleu...what size is your boat?
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Post by hoppy on Feb 24, 2012 7:01:39 GMT
Sailbleu...what size is your boat? I did a quick search of Sailbleu's past posts and it is a SO40DS. I think the Bauer Junior II would fit easily in cockpit locker, except both are already full. Probably with a bit of thought, rearranging and perhaps giving up a cabin I could add a compressor and dive gear on an extended journey |
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Post by hoppy on Feb 24, 2012 7:20:41 GMT
Zanshin, did you get the single phase version?
Do you know how many watt inverter is required and the current draw if I wanted to power it from the house batteries with the motor running? Google and the Bauer site are of no help.
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Post by sailbleu on Feb 24, 2012 8:41:44 GMT
Zanshin, did you get the single phase version? Do you know how many watt inverter is required and the current draw if I wanted to power it from the house batteries with the motor running? Google and the Bauer site are of no help. Oh Hoppy , never in your dreams. You need 6 to 7 times the nominal current to start an electrical motor. Nor the inverter, nor the batteries will deliver. If and when you power up the compressor with an electrical engine you need a hugh geneset or a smaller one using a frequency controller. Single fase can be converted to 3 fase and there by gradually increase the current and RPM's Also 3 fase genset can supply a 3 fase electrical motor using a controller of course. It's alway the best sollution using such a controller , it kinda saves the genset a bit. My boat is indeed a 40DS and the compressor is a 6m³ Coltri with which I am very happy. Fairly cheap and good , have it for about 7 to 8 years now. I also still have a Bauer varius 4m³ , bought that more than 30 years ago .Very small and handy thing. Still works you know , be it that a discharge valve is leaking , I can't seem to find any spare parts anymore. Having your own compressor on board is such a luxury , when you scubadive it's almost a necessity. Regards |
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Post by hoppy on Feb 24, 2012 17:23:46 GMT
Sailbleu, you would be amazed by the things that are possible in my dreams  Ok, so it is either generator & compressor, petrol compressor or a very long shore line  |
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Post by Zanshin on Feb 26, 2012 13:26:38 GMT
I could run the compressor off my inverter (it delivers 5000W) but as sailbleu wrote it is the startup locked rotor power requirement that is the problem; I could run the genset to start the compressor and then shut it off, but the bauer uses 2.2Kw when running.
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Post by hoppy on Mar 4, 2012 19:28:09 GMT
I was at the Stockholm boat show today and saw this Coltri compressor www.coltrisub.it/COMPRESSORS/PORTABLE/ENG/PETROL/MCH6_SH/mch6_sh.htmIt looked fairly compact, perhaps small enough to fit in the cockpit locker although maybe the 78cm length may bring me back to reality  Perhaps a better fit the sailbleu's Coltri. It's all academic for now as I think I should take my gear down to the boat and first try renting tanks and actually diving. Good to have it book marked for future reference anyway |
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Post by minnewaska on Mar 8, 2012 11:05:05 GMT
For those that can't fit or power a compressor, a 12v rechargeable or gas powered hookah system is an alternative. Google Hookah Dive Systems for alternatives.
Zanshin, lm glad you're still enjoying the compressor.
Back in the day when I was a dive instructor, I swore that rebreathers would be common for recreational divers by now. Didn't happen.
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Post by sailbleu on Mar 11, 2012 6:40:28 GMT
I was at the Stockholm boat show today and saw this Coltri compressor www.coltrisub.it/COMPRESSORS/PORTABLE/ENG/PETROL/MCH6_SH/mch6_sh.htmIt looked fairly compact, perhaps small enough to fit in the cockpit locker although maybe the 78cm length may bring me back to reality Perhaps a better fit the sailbleu's Coltri. It's all academic for now as I think I should take my gear down to the boat and first try renting tanks and actually diving. Good to have it book marked for future reference anyway Hi Hoppy , just back from a outstanding sky vacation and read your post . My compressor is exactly the same as in your link , be it that mine is cased-in. I thought it to be a good idea at the time to have a nice solid block (was before we bought our boat), but it's not neccesairy you know , the one in your link will do just fine. As I mentioned before , Coltri is a good and fairly cheap alternative. Hope to be able to buy an another one when the time is ripe , that means I will continue diving for many years to come. Next stop this year is 4 months Portugal , allready looking forward to that. Kind regards |
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Post by Zanshin on Mar 11, 2012 16:43:52 GMT
...Back in the day when I was a dive instructor, I swore that rebreathers would be common for recreational divers by now. Didn't happen. I might be doing my IANTD deep dive later this week and they also have rebreathers at this operation so I will be trying that out as well; it would be cool to not have all those bubbles scare the fish away while diving. |
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Post by hoppy on Jan 24, 2015 11:46:43 GMT
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Post by sailbleu on Jan 25, 2015 8:42:26 GMT
Good morning all , those in the CET- zone that is Hoppy , you've really seem to have your mind set on an electrically driven compressor no ? Here's what you can do : if you have a genset that can deliver 3 fase - which most big sets do I suppose - you could use a frequency-controller . Meaning , this device will gradually increase the rpm's of a 3 fase motor and minimize the startup amps. I would not however buy a new 3 fase gen just for a dive compressor . You see , I often fill my tanks while sailing . I have 2 tanks , 15 liters each , and would recommend that because it's always wise to have a backup tank in case of emergency But then again , i try to fiil 2 tanks in a row , so that means half of the time I do not have a full tank as a spare. Though I usually surface with 50 bar remaining , and after nearly 40 years of diving my dives have become very air efficient , although a full face mask (AKA divator) is not one of the most economic ways to plunge down. Anyway , when I fill , my wife and I sit/lie on the fordeck and enjoy the view . Regularly I get up to drain some water and after 1 hour both tanks are ready. Leave everything to cool down for half an hour , slide the water protective cover back over my comp. And close the locker. If it's required to top up the tanks whilst on anchor I make sure the anchorage is not too crowded and when being close to another boat A short explanation to your neighbor can do wonders. But you can eliminate alot of nuisance by just planning the filling sessions What I'm trying to tell you is , a petrol driven comp. Is absolutely feasible. Regards |
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Post by sailbleu on Jan 25, 2015 9:01:29 GMT
Oh boy , after checking my posts of 3 years ago , I apparentely already spoke about that frequenty controller.
Also not that cheap those FC , but there's always China of course.
Again , 1 hour for 2 tanks , why the hassle and expense for a 3fase genset and FC ?
Regards
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Post by hoppy on Jan 25, 2015 9:05:33 GMT
Hoppy , you've really seem to have your mind set on an electrically driven compressor no ? No, not at all. I'm still very much in the "window shopping" phase I was just thinking that if a relatively small Honda gen could do the job, maybe it could be handy to have it for "special occasions". Even before reading the Honda/Coltri specs I wasn't hopeful and after reading I realised no but want to be sure, doesn't hurt to ask. Petrol it will be Many of my planned purchases I have been window shopping for lately will probably be made as part of my move to liveaboard process, but the dive compressor will not. As I sail solo a lot, I would also have to dive solo and I have not dived for years. So whilst I will be taking my dive gear with me I'm likely to limit my diving to hull cleaning duties. I guess if the anchor gets stuck and I don't have a trip line, I'll use it then. I kind of feel that I won't be so inspired in the med to dive much. If I get to the Caribbean or if I do get some keen divers coming to join me, then I'll look at the compressor. I think for now I'll buy two tanks and have fun searching out dive shops to fill them. Handily at Corfu Marina there is a shop that sells tanks close to me and a dive shop also in the grounds |
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Post by sailbleu on Jan 25, 2015 9:31:09 GMT
 For cleaning hulls or clearing props this is the way to go. As you can see it' on the boat now. Very compatible wit the fast couplings of my FFM . From now on I can leave my tank and divejacket on deck. Regards |
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Post by hoppy on Jan 25, 2015 9:44:14 GMT
Don't you need a different regulator as a normal scuba requires more pressure?
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Post by hoppy on Jan 25, 2015 9:56:33 GMT
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Perhaps a better fit the sailbleu's Coltri.