JSO 42DS bilge pump nightmare

[Valhalla]

Hello. I am new to the group and recently purchased a 2007 42DS and am now bringing her to her new home port 130 miles from wher I bought her.  There have been a few situations that contributed to water in the bilge, and the pump would normally turn on.  I cleaned all the water out of the bilge compartments. Realizing that i had not heard the bilge pump for 2 days, i lifted the main bildge board to find a foot of water in every bilge compartment. I turned on the manual pump and it took 15 minutes to clear the water.

I felt the automatic bilge pump motor to find it extremely hot. It was energized and giving off heat. i took the pump apart to find that 2 of the 4 screws that hold the pump motor to the housing had come out and jammed the gear on the bellows pump piston. After fixing this and installing the pump, it has worked fine. As for the source of the water, it could have been me filling the water tanks with a marina hose and nozzle. i may have overfilled them , but was never shown where the overfill vents are. I did observe the bilge fills with water when the vessel in under motor power. im sitting here in the marina now and the bilge pump turns on every 30 minutes for abut 5 to 6 seconds. 

im posting this message to inform the group of this type of pump failure and to seek any suggestions on the water ingress.I saw that there are many pages dedicated to this issue. Thanks in advance and I am greatful for the experienced Jeanneau owners in the forum!

[Charlie-Bravo]

I once overfilled my forward water tank, chatting to a berth neighbour for quite a while, by the time I turned off the tap the bilges were within half an inch for the boards ! on the positive side, my bilges had a jolly good wash, on the downside I discovered the tank cap / inspection hatch, had a small crack , hardly visible, which opened up to quite a large slot under water pressure.
I found new caps to be very difficult to buy, so repaired it . My vent lines were also blocked, cleared with a good stomp with the dinghy pump.

Your water ingress if not the overfilling could be from many things, main suspects being your stern tube and or the shaft seal, but they are easy to spot whilst motoring along, most boats squat a bit under engine power and the transom seam to the hull have been known to start leaking, the only way to determine this is to crawl into the transom with a torch whilst underway and look.
All through hulls and valves should be under 5 years old if made from DZR brass as originally supplied, if yours are very old inspect each one, wrapping in paper towel looking for the damp tissue, and consider replacing them fast if found to be weeping.

CB

[knotsmart]

the only thing id like to add is whether you definitively know if its fresh or salt water? 

i always access the water tanks when i initally fill the tanks in the spring .  first i remove the access port, reach inside and clean the inside of the tanks and then reinstall the port plug/cap and fill the tank till it overflowws on the deck to verify the access port isnt leaking

everyone has covered the usual suspects.. prop shaft seal, thru hulls,  

the pump running for 5 seconds is an indication the pump and the float switch are working properly.. the 5 seconds is how long it takes the pump to pump out the sump pit 

it does bother me that it only takes 30 minutes for the sump pit to fill back up

also check every coupling, joint and elbow of the fresh water sysytem to verify its not leaking while under pressure with the fresh water pump on

[bereboot]

Also the water calorifier has a drain into the bilge. Is it closed again after the winter?

[Valhalla]

Thanks to all. I ran the engine at the dock today and noticed the bilge pump was running more. I looked and amount and flow of water was much greater than before. An hour after the engine was off, the bllge pump was back to running every 30 minutes for 5 seconds. Like I mentioned, this is new boat to me and my 6th day on it. Any thoughts?  Thanks in advance

[sailor666]

Is your engine exhaust leaking?

My 2006 42DS would fill the bilges when the engine ran. It turned out that there was a break in the top of the exhaust water separator which is hidden away inside the port glass fibre ‘beam’ that the engine is mounted on. The leak wasn’t at all obvious from anything that could be seen but tracked out through the various limber holes in the bilge. The solution was to replace the water separator- which turned out to be remarkably easy given its location.

Good luck at finding your leak.

[knotsmart]

 it seems like youre zeroing in now.. pull the companionway steps, start the motor, check the raw water pump (they have a weep hole just like a water pump in your car that leaks when the pump is shot) check all the hoses to and from the raw water strainer.. check all conections of the big 3- 4"exhaust hose .. interestingly i checked online and the water muffler that sailor666 was talking about is made of plastic(our 2004 43ds has a welded alum box) check where the exhaust hose connects to verify the plastic connection port of the box isnt cracked 

fyi should the plastic water muffler be cracked and need replacemnt its only $150 .. not in stock though itd have to come from france

[Camira]

Hi I’ve had my 2007 42DS from new, unless you maybe have a split in the filler pipe you won’t be filling your bilge from over filling the tanks. Something that I’ve done twice now is to put away the shower hose without without turning of the main tap which means when you put the pipe and shower head are away the shower head press switch can get pushed on and this will start filling the bilge. So if your fresh water pump is intermittently running together with the automatic bilge pump it may well be it. If the taste test says it’s salt water check the propshaft seal and if not this check all your sea water inlets. Good luck.

[Charlie-Bravo]

The bilge pump running every 30 mins but only for a 5 second burst is irritating, but not unusual. The bilge water is being pumped uphill, when the pump stops there can be a slow flow of water running downhill back to and through the pump, which eventually makes a puddle in the bilge sump deep enough to fire up the pump for another little burst.
If this were your only issue the answer is just to sponge out the returned water puddle from the sump, and then all will be quiet until you get a new leak.

Running at the dock will at least not be submerging the transom to hull seam, so helps in the deduction process.

I have had a pin hole in the exhaust pipe , created from a protruding screw point hiding inside the transom area, a most surprising amount of water came out of that little hole, much more than you would think.

Worth clearing the aft cabin and access to the transom, starting the engine and going for a slow crawl with a torch looking for water, and if you don’t find any, well at least you can strike off the exhaust pipe from your list of suspects.

Happy hunting, looking forward to you reporting the cause of bilge water.

CB

[cpetku]

You may want to install a monitoring system for the bilge and other systems on the boat. I find peace of mind being able to see if either of my bilge pumps have been active while I'm away from the marina during the week. Nothing fun about getting to the boat to discover the floor is floating (experience from a leaking thru-hull).

If you leave your instrument powered, you can even check on windspeed and direction remotely to decide if it's a good day for being on the water.

A low cost option is available from FloatHub and prices climb rapidly from there. I chose a cellular plan since I didn't trust my marina's WIFI.

[sailor666]

I've attached some pictures that illustrate my particular exhaust leak (other 42DS exhaust leaks are available) and more usefully, a pdf of the parts involved and Jeanneau part numbers - replacing part 6 in the diagram did it for me.

Attachments:

SO42DS Exhaust System.pdf (426.5 KB)

[Valhalla]

Thanks so much for the additional information. I"ll take a look at the waterlock muffler when I"m back on the boat. I"m guessing the only source for this part is through Jeanneau? Do you know the cost? Thanks again!

[rene460]

Hi Valhalla, welcome to the forum and congratulations on your purchase.  You have certainly a had an adventure on your shakedown voyages.  With a bit of luck you will have discovered the most important early maintenance tasks.  

I am glad you were able to fix the bilge pump , though I would consider Loctite in this situation a temporary repair until you can more conveniently work a repair.  If the shape of the casing allows drilling through and using bolts with nuts it would be more satisfactory but this may not be possible.  At least you have identified the main problem, and got the pump working so you can feel more secure having a sail.  The operation every 30 minutes is not a fault as CB explained.  Some suggest a check valve at the pump inlet but that introduces a greater chance of blockage, and the best solution is to find the source of the leak and sponge out the bilge.

On the other hand, water leaking into the bilge is not normal and indicates a fault somewhere.  You already have a few suggestions and it’s worth checking the most obvious and accessible first before going after the more difficult to track down possibilities.

As the boat is new to you, I would start with the shaft seal.  Check it at the dock with the engine not running, then start and check it with the shaft turning.  Apart from a few drops when you burp the seal after relaunching the boat after haul out there should be nothing.  If there is a few drops it’s time to replace the seal but it will not normally sink the boat while you get home, and the bilge pump will take care of it.  Then you can plan the haul out and replace the seal along with other items you will no doubt list to do at the same time.  

After that, the obvious question, is it smelly, fresh or salt (order carefully chosen)?  Blocking limber holes in the frames can help isolate the issue to fore or aft.  Dry paper towels or tissues can help identify moisture trails from the leak source to the bilge.  And even talc judicially scattered can help track down the more difficult ones.

On the water tanks, overfilling is often suggested as a possible cause.  Usually the gauge does not give a good enough indication of when the tank is full before “overfilling”, I am not sure how you follow the owners manual instructions about leaving air space.  I always filled till water flows from the vent line, or the water backs up to the deck fill (Make sure there is space for the overflow to escape past your fill hose so as not to pressurise the tank from your fill source.)  If water is leaking look for lids or gauge flanges not sealing, loose hose connections, or weeping cracks, hopefully in the hoses rather than the tank.

Same principles for the diesel though the pump should stop when the fuel nozzle reaches the nozzle without overflowing through the vent.  Not good to spill diesel on the water.  When you have found and fixed the problem, your friendly search engine will give advice on how to eliminate diesel smell in cars that I am sure would work in a boat as well. Not every suggestion by a search engine is reliable, but my son selected the most likely one when he spilled diesel fuel in his car, and found it very successful.  And no one likes a diesel smell in the boat.

Good luck with your detective work, once you find the issue you are well on the way to a satisfactory repair.  Please let us know what you find.

rene460

[Valhalla]

Thanks rene460. I was able to find the Viking Power 16 pump new on ebay for $100 and plan to modify the pump housing screws with nuts. We thought alike on that one! As for the shaft seal, it was replaced before I bought the boat. I burped it when the boat splashed and its functioning properly. I'm zeroing in on the waterlock muffler as the source of the water intrusion. I'll be on the boat Saturday and will hunt down this issue, as well as the diesel leak. I will report back my findings to add to the collective knowledge of the group. Thanks again.

[sailor666]

You asked about the cost of the exhaust muffler. It was a challenge for my filing system but I found the invoice from January 2013 which had (prices in GBP):

Parts:

• Exhaust muffler box     £151.16
  
• Muffler box hose tail    £  46.36
  

Labour

• Removing saloon step and step sill, removing exhaust manifold and old muffler hose tail, unbolting exhaust muffler box and removing into saloon, re-installing new muffler, connecting new hose tail and replacing exhaust manifold, replace still and steps running up engine to test (no leaks found)    £260.00
  

I thought it was a bargain at the time.

[Valhalla]

Thanks sailor666. Whats more impressive other than the low cost back in 2013, is your ability to find an invoice that is 13 years old!! I"ll be investigating if this is the issue this weekend. Thanks again.

[Valhalla]

Thanks to the help of all the members who responded, I found the leak! As many you have said, it is the water lock muffler that is leaking like a sieve. Based on the amount of water, I’m expecting it to be damaged to the point of replacement.

My guess is that this part must be purchased through a Jeanneau dealer or directly from Jeanneau . Does anyone have any experience with this?

As a backup, I am investigating a 15 liter Vestus muffler, as it may be the quickest and least expensive option. If anyone has any experience with this, I would love to know. Thanks again for all the help!

[knotsmart]

another thing that i recently noticed is that if there is a check valve built in somewhere it leaks.. the bilge kicks on , empties the sump pt and then very slowly the same water leaks back into the sump pit.. and the pump kicks back on again