I really should get dinghy davits

[Zanshin]

I often tow my dinghy behind me on trips here in the Caribbean, because removing the 18HP engine by hand is a lot of work when sailing along. The day before yesterday I sailed from the Iles des Saintes to Martinique, only 75 miles but there are two stretches where the wind and waves are known to "compress". I checked the weather before departing and it didn't look bad, so I towed my dinghy.

On the stretch between Dominica and Martinique I got hit with bigger waves and stronger winds than I'd anticipated. I had 3 reefs in both sails and was zipping along in comfort, but the dinghy got lots of air time, despite my extending the leash.

This was taken after conditions had settled down, but I'm still moving between 8 and 10 knots. The 10-year old GoPro doesn't give the best video, but does show that I really should get dinghy davits.

[shenandoah]

I know I am in the minority but I remain anti davit. My home marina is also home to the local Jeanneau dealer and I see boats in the latter stages of commissioning all the time. When the davits and dinghy are added the stern goes into the water and the bow lifts. It makes me cringe every time. The entire design of the hull is negated. It is a lot of added weight in the worst possible place to add weight. 

We did add a crane to lift our 20hp outboard, which makes it very easy, and putting the dinghy itself on deck is not difficult. It does add one more step, but as one of my mentors used to say, we are sailors we are not in a hurry. 

I do get the convenience but in heavy seas I am glad to have not destabilized my boat, and at anchor it is so much better looking. 

Just me opinion.  

[Charlie-Bravo]

Poor dinghy.

Were you thinking of highly polished scaffolding arms, or snap davits?

Outboards always seem difficult to get on and off whilst afloat, my technique is to attach a long tailed handy billy with cam cleat to the boom end, dangle outboard engine over the side , secure the boom, lower the dinghy that is stored athwart ships on the stern (no davits) drag myself around the boat and tie up alongside and lower the outboard with billies long tail, then tie billy off to a stanchion base so is ready for the reverse procedure. Seems easier than climbing off the stern , and balancing with the outboard in a wobbly dinghy.

with your extended range of cruising, and no doubt many provisioning trips to do, polished scaff arms could well make your life easier.
I find my two D rings bolted to the stern, with a strap on each which goes under the afloat dinghy, rolls the dinghy up onto the transom step easily enough , and then just tie the straps off to something like the push pit …… but my dinghy is probably smaller than yours.

If you went with D rings and straps along with a jolly fancy Billy, you could upgrade the Gopro and keep your Musk subscription going for years.

CB

[MickeyB]

Not much to do with the actual subject, and I cannot remember if the source was here or elsewhere, but police in Sicily are fining around 1000euros if they catch you moving with a dingy behind.

I do have davits on my 34.2, and although easy to use, I don't use them that much unless in Italian waters - not worth the risk of a fine.

Quite an impressive video though, glad I am not in that kind of wind.

Mike

[Zanshin]

Why would the Sicilian police fine someone for towing a dinghy? I've never heard of anything like that before.

[MickeyB]

Nor had I, but here is one reference, there are others.

www.facebook.com/groups/ViF.Velisti/posts/10160496939855931/

For those who don't use facebook....

QUOTE
Of interest to all captains with tow tenders, the yacht I manage just got fined €5,135 for towing a tender. They were stopped by the Guardia Finanzia off Olbia, Sardinia last week and had to got to be fined today at their offices. Apparently there is a law from the 1940s that until now has been ignored, that states that you cannot tow a tender or any other object in Italian waters without special permission. The Guardia made it clear that they were now enforcing this law in Sardinia. So be warned! They were not clear what they consider any other object, so will this also include water toys, doughnuts, skiers and wakeboards? Apparently the €5,135 is the minimum fine! La persona che mi ha appena mandato questo è affidabile.C’è qualcuno nel gruppo che potrebbe controllarne la veridicità???o che magari conosce chi lavora alla Capitaneria di Olbia???grazie

[Zanshin]

Odd that despite my Google-Fu powers I can't find a reference using any search engine...

[NZL50505]

The dinghy towing fines sound like corruption to me and a good lawyer would enjoy challenging that one.

On the davits thing, I agree they can ruin the trim of smaller boats but Zanshin is a J57 weighing in between 22-27 tons (depending on loading). So I don’t think a dinghy on davits would even be noticeable.

[bratwurzt1]

Jun 13, 2023 16:14:24 GMT shenandoah said:

I know I am in the minority but I remain anti davit. My home marina is also home to the local Jeanneau dealer and I see boats in the latter stages of commissioning all the time. When the davits and dinghy are added the stern goes into the water and the bow lifts. It makes me cringe every time. The entire design of the hull is negated. It is a lot of added weight in the worst possible place to add weight. 

We did add a crane to lift our 20hp outboard, which makes it very easy, and putting the dinghy itself on deck is not difficult. It does add one more step, but as one of my mentors used to say, we are sailors we are not in a hurry. 

I do get the convenience but in heavy seas I am glad to have not destabilized my boat, and at anchor it is so much better looking. 

Just me opinion.  

Hi Shenandoah, 
This is an interesting thought. We have a S/O 35 and never really carry much on board because our work schedule only allows up to two week sailing adventures, anyway I was going to spend the money on davits this summer but now maybe I won't. I guess nit much to say except I've never heard this theory and its intriguing. 

[shenandoah]

Bratwurtz1 
I first heard the theory from Fatty Goodlander, author and multiple time circumnavigator. If you have not read any of his books they are very entertaining. It hit home with me when I actually see it in our marina. 

NZL50505,
Does a Jeanneau 57 weigh 22 tons? My SO440 weighs just over 9. If it was a 57 foot Oyster then I would agree. Jeanneaus are light, which is why they are so fun to sail and sail so well in light airs. 

Regardless, I am reporting what I have seen and this includes a brand new 55. The davits were added and the bow went up slightly. They hoisted the dinghy and the stern went in the water and the bow lifted. Maybe that gets offset somewhat once they load the sail locker with gear? 

How much that matters is probably dependent on the conditions in which one is willing to sail. 

[Chris Meyer]

Jun 16, 2023 13:06:08 GMT shenandoah said:

Bratwurtz1 
I first heard the theory from Fatty Goodlander, author and multiple time circumnavigator. If you have not read any of his books they are very entertaining. It hit home with me when I actually see it in our marina. 

NZL50505,
Does a Jeanneau 57 weigh 22 tons? My SO440 weighs just over 9. If it was a 57 foot Oyster then I would agree. Jeanneaus are light, which is why they are so fun to sail and sail so well in light airs. 

Regardless, I am reporting what I have seen and this includes a brand new 55. The davits were added and the bow went up slightly. They hoisted the dinghy and the stern went in the water and the bow lifted. Maybe that gets offset somewhat once they load the sail locker with gear? 

How much that matters is probably dependent on the conditions in which one is willing to sail. 

My google machine says Jeanneau 57 weighs 60,000 pounds or 30 tons.   Must be with the crew onboard and full tanks of water and gas....

[shenandoah]

Interesting. I wouldn't have thought there was that much difference. 

[Zanshin]

Jun 16, 2023 13:06:08 GMT shenandoah said:

Bratwurtz1 
...Does a Jeanneau 57 weigh 22 tons?

29.5 Tons, actually; measured on the travelift full of fuel and water but no PAX. Papers state 28.8 tons. The weight of the davits with a fully loaded dinghy won't make a difference to the boat in terms of the waterline. But I don't like the aesthetics so much and haven't figured out a system I like, as I want to combine davits with a strong bimini frame so I can support more think solar panels that I currently have sewn into the dodger and bimini.

[shenandoah]

That sounds official. 

I am with you on the aesthetics. Most I have seen are on an arch which angles aft behind the stern. Great for solar panel efficiency and an easy angle for lifting a dinghy. However, the weight is now hanging off the stern which creates some degree of leverage.  

I like your idea of keeping the footprint of the bimini. If you ever figure it out please share. 

[NZL50505]

If you’re concerned about ascetics then spot my davits in this pic!

[virtualburton]

A friend 2 slips down from me has a newer Son Odyssey 51. He has integrated davits that he got on the boat when it was new. I don't know who makes them, but I would love to look at those for my S0469. They telescope up, then fold over so you can use them when you want, but put them away when you don't and they slide back down into the area below the aft deck.

Does anyone know who manufactures house or if they sell them?

Thanks, David. 

[Charlie-Bravo]

Osculati do some telescopic davits that hide away …… given enough room below the deck.

CB

[virtualburton]

Thanks! will check. You nailed it! 

Found them here:

www.osculati.com/en/11623-m-002958/telescopic-davit

need to get my tape measure out now...

thx, David

[loredo]

Zanshin,

I tow my dinghy a bit different from you.  I adjust the line so that the dinghy rides on the stern wave behind the boat.  Dinghy tied to the center of the boat so that it rides in somewhat "protected" waters behind the mother-ship. Since the distance from the stern to the wave varies with the boat speed it needs some fiddling at first.  Once you get it right the dinghy will most of the time plane on the wave and stay very stable (without outboard!).  Has worked for me in the past 40 years...

I might be a bit different than most others, to me the aesthetics of the boat matter.  NO davits, NO arch for solar panels and so on.

Loredo

PS I also use three line attachment points (center and one on each side) on the dinghy for towing it.  Makes it very unlikely for the dinghy to not follow the boat in a straight line.  Also that requires some fiddling.  Towing a dinghy safely is a sort of art!

[Zanshin]

loredo - thanks for the post. I've thought about towing using 2 (or 3) lines just as you described but haven't tried it yet. Because of my freeboard, the line attachment points are very high and I'm worried that the bow of the dinghy could get lifted and "catch air" and flip (that only happened to me once, years ago with my 49DS and I towed the empty inverted dinghy from Nevis to Antigua since the waves were too high for me to try to fix the problem alone at sea). I'm fleeing from hurricane Bret in 30 minutes (if I stay I'll have a eye of a CAT I go right over where I am) but once in Grenada I might experiment on short sails in good conditions.

[loredo]

Zanshin,

good luck and fair winds!  Please report back once you're in a safe harbor.

[shenandoah]

Stay safe Zanshin. 

[Zanshin]

I'm halfway to St. Lucia right now, connected to the outside world thanks to StarLink.

loredo - have you every towed offshore? In 6+ feet waves? I ask because I've got several thousand miles of towing my various dinghies behind various boats and have never once had a pattern of waves or my bow wave that I could adjust my towing bridle to. Never once. At sea the waves come in rhythmic patterns, but nothing statistically close enough to get a good length. And even now I'm looking at 18 knots of wind and perhaps 4 foot seas and cannot discern where my bow or stern wave could be.

Marinetraffic current position

[Trevor]

Hello Zanshin and all,

Interesting debate about davits and the various pros and cons of having them. We took off in 2016 for a 4 year boat or caravan trip and living on the boat allowed me to really evaluate the situation. Having the dinghy stored on the forward deck worked for a while but when arriving at a new location the thought of lifting dinghy over the side, fitting oars, safety gear, anchor and outboard certainly made exploring that less attractive.

I also had flexible solarpanels sewn into my bimini. Don't get me started about flexible solar panels. To cut to the chase, I dont like them.

While on our big trip I fitted an arch which provides a couple of advantages.
1. I can now lift the entire dinghy and motor ready to go in seriously no longer 3 minutes.
2. I have a solid platform for good quality solar panels so we can live indefinately without being concerned about electrical power
3. I fitted two other VHF antennae; one for AIS and a second VHF radio.
4. Fitted good lighting for the back of the boat when using BBQ or general use.
5. Fitted bracket for the satellite dish used for TV.
6. It provides some shade for the dinghy probably increasing the life of the dinghy a bit without a cover going on and off the dinghy.

Disadvanteges.
1. I am sure it changes the point of vanishing stability so the boat is less resistant to overturning.
2. I am sure if I were a better sailor I would notice some negative change in the boats sailing characteric but I confess I havent seen a change.
3. Some would say the boat is not as attractive as prior to the davits being fitted. I am ok with that but understand the sentiment.
4. I guess it has sat the aft end of the boat down a bit but I cant really see it.
5. It must increase windage so that would be detrimental in a serious blow.

The davits have changed our boating life. I no longer ever wrangle getting the dinghy into or out of the water and we never tow the dinghy at all. We have many friends whose dinghy has been lifted and flipped in strong winds even with the outboard on.

Boats are a compromise but for me having the davits vastly outweighs not having them.

Regards,

Trevor

[zigzag49ds]

I have a 2006 49 DS, and I am very happy with my davits.  They came with the boat and are by Kato out of New Jersey.
Very well made and not too expensive.

This year I while cruising down east, I started to leave the motor (15hp Tohatsu with electric start) on the dinghy
while on the davits and seemed to work fine.  I lift the rear of the dinghy directly by the transom, so there is no 
stress on the tubes from the weight of the motor (110 pounds).

For winter storage I lift the dinghy with the spinaker halyard onto the bow and store it upside down and covered.

One thing I started doing when I lift the motor onto the rear rail is I stopped using a nylon lifting sling. 

I just take the engine cover off and hook the crane directly to the lifting ring on top of the motor. 

Way more secure and safe.  

Kato also makes rear archees as well.


katomarine.com/

A few years ago I came across a different kind of davits that I really like called "Dinghy Tow".

They have two stainless bars that attach to the stern end of the boat with the motor attached, which you then
lift clear of the water and you can drag the bow in the water, or you can flip it up against the backstay.

Check it out.  I'm not sure if they are made anymore.  I would sell my set for $1200.

dinghy-tow.com/index.htm

I have a used set I was going to use on my boat, but alas it came with davits.