Deck Step Mast Head

[dubaids43]

The collar where the mast passes through the deck has 4 corner bolt slots. The corner of the forward port side of the collar has sheered through half the slot width exposing the bolt but still gripping the back half.

What would cause the stress on than front corner to sheer the collar and what is the suggested solution ?

[MartyB]

Your real question should be, is that bolt really a bolt? Granted my 30' Arcadia is a bit older, but the deck plate was held by 4 wood screws. THere is a wood spacer below that rotted on my boat. Three of the four screws were in rotted part. COuld you have the same issue, where the plate is moving around, braking at that point!
If your positive you have bolts, can see the nuts below the cabin top....It may not be this issue. THen again, if you have wood rot where I did, then the bolts could be moving, causing that part to break.

My 02

Marty

[mickmeck]

Nov 17, 2022 16:49:20 GMT dubaids43 said:

The collar where the mast passes through the deck has 4 corner bolt slots. The corner of the forward port side of the collar has sheered through half the slot width exposing the bolt but still gripping the back half.
What would cause the stress on than front corner to sheer the collar and what is the suggested solution ?               

If you have a 43DS then the mast does not pass through the deck. That is a plate that the mast is resting on that is bolted to the deck. Underneath there is another mast step that is bolted to the plate. Are you looking at the deck from topside down or below up? That would identifiy which bolts are being sheered. 

What year is your boat? There is a documented issue with the deck step pad being made of plywood and when it gets wet it starts to rot. I, and a friend sailork, replaced our pads last year to successfully bring our mast's back into place. If you lift the floor board around the step mast and dril a 1/2" hold into the pad you can determine if your pad is wet and if that could be your problem. 

[dubaids43]

You can also notice where the floor was bonded but there is a crack there now. 

[dubaids43]

Feochan Jeanneau Sun Odyssey DS43 2001

Where is this Plywood pad ?  is it glassed in at the foot of the Compression post.  The bolt heads are not fully flush.  They can be turned with a spanner but do not tighten.  

[MalcolmP]

I suspect that you are suffering from what has become a common problem for the 43DS and other Jeanneau's of this era.

This guide should help you find a remedy. www.jeanneau-owners.com/hintsandtips/compressionpost.html

Do keep the forum updated on what you find.

[dubaids43]

On further investigation the compression post foot has dropped.  Looking at the base of the mast on the coach roof you can also notice a slight depression which is the reason for the corner of the collar to sheer.

if you look at the photo's it does not however match the pdf document images.  I appreciate no two would be exactly the same, but rather than cracking around the square base of the compression post, the crack is a linear crack along the floor line.  not being versed with the construction or what is bonded to what, is this symptomatic of the same failure of the wood ? 

irrespective same repair is required.  I am just arranging a lift and mast removal.  Once the compression post is removed and propped, I can remove that section and identify exactly what has failed and a suitable repair.   I will keep the forum posted on our progress. 

( lift hopefully on the 20th Dec) 

[dubaids43]

Nov 22, 2022 10:11:27 GMT MalcolmP said:

I suspect that you are suffering from what has become a common problem for the 43DS and other Jeanneau's of this era.

This guide should help you find a remedy. www.jeanneau-owners.com/hintsandtips/compressionpost.html

Do keep the forum updated on what you find.

[dubaids43]

Ok …….
Managed to contact the previous owner. Turns out that when he bought her in 2010 his surveyor picked this up and the brokerage yard did the repair on behalf of Jeanneau warranty. So the ply has already gone.
If you look at the pictures you can see the crack were the “Top Hat” section has dropped. However the top hat section does not have and depression in it . What else could cause this to drop ?

[tsenator]

dubaids43,

In this picture it does not look like the compression post base "repair" was ever done, or if it was done it wasn't done very well.  Your picture here with the gap under the wood floor support and the "white fiberglass" gel coat show that the compression base has dropped.   And the Stainless Steel lag bolts that are not screwed all the way down are a classic example of what one might see from the compression base failing.   In the earlier 43DS's the post base was made of wood and over time water can leak into that base and compromise the structure (wood top eventually gets wet and softens some).

The good news is that its not that hard of a fix but one must remove ALL of the wood in the compression base and replace it.  I replaced it with Fiberglass blocks secured in place with epoxy and gel coated over. 

[tsenator]

Dec 2, 2022 8:32:29 GMT dubaids43 said:

Ok …….
Managed to contact the previous owner. Turns out that when he bought her in 2010 his surveyor picked this up and the brokerage yard did the repair on behalf of Jeanneau warranty. So the ply has already gone.
If you look at the pictures you can see the crack were the “Top Hat” section has dropped. However the top hat section does not have and depression in it . What else could cause this to drop ?

You asked what could cause this to drop ?  Wood that has deteriorated over time .  Here are some pics from when I cleaned  out all that wood that was going under the compression post base   .  Looks like they didn't remove all the wood -- poor repair. 

The first pic is what was under the gelcoat base.  Wood integrity compromised but was very difficult to cut out and remove wood 




Here you can see a full bucket of wood particles after cleaning out the area under the compression post . 



Some of the pieces of wood are still fairly large after I was able to finally cut, chop and pry the wood out 

[saltymetals]

Mike, Dubai, Tsenator,

For the rest of us it would be really useful to know the month and year of your models that have had this problem of the collapsing block under the compression post. From previous reports it seems that Jeanneau fixed this prblm somewhere in the period 2002-2004.

My 43ds is Jan 2004 and does not hv the prblm.

If you look at yr hull number the last 4 digits give year of manufacture and completion. For example on my boat this is "A404". A=Jan, 4=year of manufacture and 04= year of completion.

So would be good to try and identify which period this model had this problem and from which period it no longer occurs.
Andrew
"Génial Bee"

[mickmeck]

According to your data, my boat would be A303 or January 2003. I did have the issue and will be submitting a PDF overview of what I did to rectifiy it. I did not find the information that was provided by Jeanneau in a PDF very helpful. A big challenge is removal of the wet wood and then filling the space. 

[tsenator]

SaltyMetals et al


I did have the "bad-wood" base under the compression post - since fixed and its like a rock now  


For reference purposes my 2003 43DS Hull # IRI00260B303



So I believe that means Hull Number 260



"B" : Construction started in February the 2nd month of 2003 (Months are alphabetical starting with "A" - "A" represents January and "L" represents December. )





"3" : This is the year of certification. The number is the last digit of the year in which the boat was built. "3" in this case designates 2003



"03": This indicates the boat's model year.

[reiner]

Today I had a look to my hull number.
It is 274 and C303, so build in March 2003.
I have no problem with the compression post, there is also no compression at 
the mast deck step no cracks and the windows are not leaking..
But what I have to say is, that the area around the compression post was
always completely dry. So I cannot really say is this the reasons or the
date of production that I do not have this problem.

[ales]

I see there are many threads about this problem but i can not find one information: when removing the mast, do I have to haul out the boat to do the repair or is it ok to do it, while the boat is in the water?

I got one opinion from a sort of a rigger and he said I should haul out but the boat must be on hard in the way that the keel is "in the air".
I find this advice strange and also not the smartest thing to do as the boat usually sits on hard on the keel and keeping the keel in the air would make probably some unnecessary tension on the hull if positioned so for a longer period (to make a repair).

I prefer to keep the boat in the water and remove the compression post with a help of a hydraulic jack. It seems logical to me that there will be no tension (or at least not as much as on hard but also more tension if the boat would be on hard with the keel in the air).

The other question I got is how to fill the hole where the rotten wood is?
I do not find a mix of choped stand and resin the smartest solution. I prefer the option wiht a G10 plates "glued" with epoxi and then fiberglassed.
What I can see from the pictures that owners posted on this matter is that the hole where they removed the rotten wood is quite big and maybe to make a inox sort of pedestal that would sit on top of the keel (bottom of the hole) and on top there will be compression post (of course, everything must be put in place with epoxi).

Thank you for your opinions.

Btw is there some kind of email to Jeanneau that I can ask them such a question?

[mickmeck]

I had a yard remove my mast and I worked on it in my slip. I cut the fiberglass top about 1 foot by 1 foot. Then I used an electric chainsaw to dig out the rotten wood. That took aout 2 hours. This is the second one I have done (with a friend) as we did his first. It took over 20 hours to do his but we were much smarter on mine. Then I leveled the bottom with some slow curing epoxy and placed a 5/8" piece of G-10 product as the base. Then I made a grid with 1/2" G-10 and set in place. then I filled it with epoxy again and leveled the top and put another 5/8" G-10. I finally raised the height to within 1/16" of the original height with 1/2" blocks. Then I went back to the yard and they reinstaalled my mast. While the mast was down my riggers instaalled new standing rigging. 

When I am not busy I an send pictures.

[MalcolmP]

Oct 23, 2023 14:44:24 GMT mickmeck said:

I had a yard remove my mast and I worked on it in my slip. I cut the fiberglass top about 1 foot by 1 foot. Then I used an electric chainsaw to dig out the rotten wood. That took aout 2 hours. This is the second one I have done (with a friend) as we did his first. It took over 20 hours to do his but we were much smarter on mine. Then I leveled the bottom with some slow curing epoxy and placed a 5/8" piece of G-10 product as the base. Then I made a grid with 1/2" G-10 and set in place. then I filled it with epoxy again and leveled the top and put another 5/8" G-10. I finally raised the height to within 1/16" of the original height with 1/2" blocks. Then I went back to the yard and they reinstaalled my mast. While the mast was down my riggers instaalled new standing rigging. 

When I am not busy I an send pictures.

Great progress! When you upload the additional photos I will update the Hints and Tips article. Well done. Malcolm

[ales]

Oct 23, 2023 14:44:24 GMT mickmeck said:

I had a yard remove my mast and I worked on it in my slip. I cut the fiberglass top about 1 foot by 1 foot. Then I used an electric chainsaw to dig out the rotten wood. That took aout 2 hours. This is the second one I have done (with a friend) as we did his first. It took over 20 hours to do his but we were much smarter on mine. Then I leveled the bottom with some slow curing epoxy and placed a 5/8" piece of G-10 product as the base. Then I made a grid with 1/2" G-10 and set in place. then I filled it with epoxy again and leveled the top and put another 5/8" G-10. I finally raised the height to within 1/16" of the original height with 1/2" blocks. Then I went back to the yard and they reinstaalled my mast. While the mast was down my riggers instaalled new standing rigging. 

When I am not busy I an send pictures.

I'l appreciate the pictures.
So the boat can stay in water. That is what I had in mind.

Since I am preparing to do the work as soon as possible I have and will have questions so I am very thankful for the answers:

1.) Do the G10 plate have to be cut in advance or it can be done in place with saw (multitool?) I never worked with this material
2.) Instead of wood, G10 were placed one over another to gain the height needed?
3.) What kind of hydraulic jack was used to raise the deck?


I never thought that I will have to deal with such a production fail...

[saltymetals]

For further info to all the guys in this thread or other readers of the thread it would appear that Jeanneau fixed this problem sometime in 2003. There are many from Jan 2003 going backwards who had the problem. My boat is Jan 2004 and does not have the problem. Nor indeed have any other 43ds owners i have come across if their boat is 2004 or later. Although my boat does have a very dry bilge. Just 1-2" (2-4cm) of water right at the bottom which is actually the run-back from the bilge-pump tube, not a leak. While some people strongly advise against the habit, i put in a non-return valve at the bottom of the suction hose which stopped the endless running of the bilge pump every 30 mins when the water left in the tube ran back down.  

Friends looking to buy a secondhand 43ds tell me the same thing after looking at half a dozen 43ds for sale: no problems found with the support for the mast compression post on 2004 and later models. 

Of course if you are lucky to have had a historically dry bilge then even if you have a 2003 or earlier you may never have experienced any trouble. Just be sure you keep the bilge dry!
Andrew
"Genial Bee"