Code zero dilemma

[jy51]

I am considering purchasing a code zero for my Jeanneau Yachts 51 from the French manufacturer Technique Voile, with this sail I will use a Facnor FX 4500 click furling system.

Being such an eye watering purchase, I wonder how much use I will get from this light airs sail, which is reportedly, capable of being effective as an up wind as well as down wind sail.

I have a copy of the JY 51 polar diagram and it shows the code zero’s superior speed over the standard genoa between 6 and 16 knots of true wind speed and from approximately 110 up to 55 degrees of true wind angle. Frankly, I have difficulties in getting my head around true wind speed and angles as on a moving boat, I sail to apparent wind speed and angles, and I was rather disappointed at the miserly extra half to three quarters a knot it seemed to gain.

I would be interest in hearing from anyone who uses this sail, and how effective they find it, especially JY 51 owners.

[shenandoah]

We use our code 0 often. Ours is from Elvstrom and it sounds like it is cut a little deeper than what you described. We can use it from a broad reach to approximately 60 degrees apparent wind. All code 0's are not the same. 

It can provide a boost in speed in moderate winds but mostly it allows us to sail when we would otherwise be motoring. This past weekend is a good example. We were able to sail at 4.5 knots in 5 knots of true wind on a beam reach. 

We do not have an asymmetrical spinnaker, so the code 0 is our light wind and down wind go to sail. As a cruiser and not a racer I felt like the choice was code 0 or spinnaker and chose the code 0 primarily because it is easy to handle short handed. Not sure if one needs both but one or the other is a huge help. 

Hope that is helpful. 

Warm regards,

Chuck

[moonshadow]

I have a code zero on my SO469 and I find it very useful. I really suggest that you talk with a sailmaker before ordering one online. I got good advice on fueling systems and also after talking about what I wanted to do with it they made my sail flatter than a standard code zero. Mine pulls upwind very close hauled up to about 16 kt apparent and 35-40 deg apparent. There are a lot of choices to make. Weight. Sail material. Sun cover or lighter sail. Best furling system. Etc. Plus I sail singlehanded a lot and it took me a while to work out my best setup.

[mpcsail]

We have a 53 and have had similar thoughts as we replaced the sail inventory. In the end and after talking with several sail makers we opted for an A3 for off the wind. We then went with a code 0, but kept our older 140 jib on a roller. Reason was it was in pretty good shape but a little on the heavy side. They felt a light 155, plus a new 135 was not worth the money and we could get more use out of the code 0.

Note we sail on the Chesapeake Bay with light winds for most of the summer. We also installed a trogear bow sprit and out the Code 0 on a Facnor roller. Also put a light weight UV cover on it just so we can roll it up and not have to drop it right away

[jy51]

Thanks for the input guys, every opinion helps.  

Regarding the choice of manufacturer, I was going with Technique voile as they are the sailmaker that supplied the sails on my Jeanneau and are the manufacturer of the code zero offered as an extra by Jeanneau.

[mpcsail]

My A3 is Quantum and the Code O is North. 

When we installed the A3 we found that it was a little snug when trying to roll up against the geny, so you may want to look at sprit. But you need to do this before you order as it will change the luff and shape.

Lastly make sure you install bobstay and add a backing plate under the anchor roller.

[Chris Meyer]

Nov 30, 2021 14:06:01 GMT jy51 said:

I am considering purchasing a code zero for my Jeanneau Yachts 51 from the French manufacturer Technique Voile, with this sail I will use a Facnor FX 4500 click furling system.

Being such an eye watering purchase, I wonder how much use I will get from this light airs sail, which is reportedly, capable of being effective as an up wind as well as down wind sail.

I have a copy of the JY 51 polar diagram and it shows the code zero’s superior speed over the standard genoa between 6 and 16 knots of true wind speed and from approximately 110 up to 55 degrees of true wind angle. Frankly, I have difficulties in getting my head around true wind speed and angles as on a moving boat, I sail to apparent wind speed and angles, and I was rather disappointed at the miserly extra half to three quarters a knot it seemed to gain.

I would be interest in hearing from anyone who uses this sail, and how effective they find it, especially JY 51 owners.

We have a code 0 on our 389 and use it much more often than the assymetrical spinnaker we had on our Beneteau 321.   The code 0 is easier to launch with the furling system and we would order it again.

[apo]

On our 410 we initially only had a G2 asymmetric which is great on a mid to broad reach, but were lacking power on a close reach. This seemed to be the point of sailing we seemed to be spending most of our time at sea on! 

We eventually went ahead and invested in a Code Zero, which has been used a lot, and it brings the boat to life. We have the 410 polars loaded into the MFD and we are now able to keep or beat them. Before we bought the Code Zero, this was never possible and we were only getting 60-70%.

[chinagirl]

We thought long and hard about a light wind sail for our 41DS and after nearly buying a code zero we spoke to 5 different sailmakers at SBS 2018 and the cumulative advice was to buy an asymmetric spinnaker with a snuffer rather than a roller reefer.  Much less expensive.  We use it from about 70 to 160 degrees off the wind in about 5 to 15 knots.  Its at it's best around 100 to 150 degrees in 5 to 10 knots when we would previously have been motoring.  With more experience and maybe when we are 3 or 4 up rather than the usual 2 we may use it in up to 20 kts. 

[Chris Meyer]

Dec 3, 2021 17:40:33 GMT chinagirl said:

We thought long and hard about a light wind sail for our 41DS and after nearly buying a code zero we spoke to 5 different sailmakers at SBS 2018 and the cumulative advice was to buy an asymmetric spinnaker with a snuffer rather than a roller reefer.  Much less expensive.  We use it from about 70 to 160 degrees off the wind in about 5 to 15 knots.  Its at it's best around 100 to 150 degrees in 5 to 10 knots when we would previously have been motoring.  With more experience and maybe when we are 3 or 4 up rather than the usual 2 we may use it in up to 20 kts. 

Good luck.
We had an asymmetrical spinnaker with a snuffer on our last boat.  Rarely used it since it was not easy to use. 
We use the code 0 all the time.

[jdl01]

We have a technique voile code 0 which came new with the boat. I am pleased with the quality, detailing and cut of the sail. It is now 9 years old and has had plenty of use - good choice in my mind. Enjoy

[shenandoah]

Tolerance for pulling on lines varies greatly from one crew to another, and one can certainly save some money by using a sock. Of course with top down furlers one could still choose the spinnaker over the code 0 and be able to furl it. I think the most important thing is to consult with the sail maker about what works best for the way you want to use it. The code 0 works great for us, but we seem to be reaching most of the time. If you want a downwind sail the spinnaker will be better. If you have the budget, space and crew for it then you'd have both and if you do have both you would want a flatter code 0 so you could point higher. 

In the end the sails are simply tools, and you will be much happier if you have the right tool for the job you are trying to accomplish. 

I think the consensus is that you will certainly enjoy having a light wind sail in your inventory, and that you should consult a sailmaker about what exact option is right for you. 

Warm regards,
Chuck

[jy51]

Dec 3, 2021 18:38:42 GMT shenandoah said:

Tolerance for pulling on lines varies greatly from one crew to another, and one can certainly save some money by using a sock. Of course with top down furlers one could still choose the spinnaker over the code 0 and be able to furl it. I think the most important thing is to consult with the sail maker about what works best for the way you want to use it. The code 0 works great for us, but we seem to be reaching most of the time. If you want a downwind sail the spinnaker will be better. If you have the budget, space and crew for it then you'd have both and if you do have both you would want a flatter code 0 so you could point higher. 

In the end the sails are simply tools, and you will be much happier if you have the right tool for the job you are trying to accomplish. 

I think the consensus is that you will certainly enjoy having a light wind sail in your inventory, and that you should consult a sailmaker about what exact option is right for you. 

Warm regards,
Chuck

Chuck, like most that sail the Mediterranean, we find the wind is generally on the nose, either too much or too little.  

Light, down wind sailing is so infrequent that a true down wind sail is of little interest.  

The large 55.9 square meter overlapping genoa (110%) supplied with the JY51 will push the boat along at a respectable speed when passage making with at least 10 to 12 knots AWS at 40 to 60 degrees AWA.

We like to average 7 Knots of boat speed when passage making, which soon fulls away when the wind drops.  The idea of a light air sail that will work between 60 and 120 AWS is my goal. Maybe I need a flatter cut than the average code Zero and if I decide to proceed will discuss these requirements with the sailmaker.

[zaphod]

Dec 1, 2021 11:58:51 GMT jy51 said:

Thanks for the input guys, every opinion helps.  

Regarding the choice of manufacturer, I was going with Technique voile as they are the sailmaker that supplied the sails on my Jeanneau and are the manufacturer of the code zero offered as an extra by Jeanneau.

Don't limit yourself to one sailmaker just because they made the oem sails for your boat. My boat came with a Technique Voile jib and a Quantum main. The mainsail is much higher build quality than the jib. The jib has been to the sailmaker for repairs many times since early in it's life.

You will likely get a better sail from one of the bigger sailmakers such as Quantum or North, particularly on more specialized sails like a code sail.

[Fabrice-Erta]

Dec 4, 2021 19:10:14 GMT zaphod said:

Dec 1, 2021 11:58:51 GMT jy51 said:

Thanks for the input guys, every opinion helps.  

Regarding the choice of manufacturer, I was going with Technique voile as they are the sailmaker that supplied the sails on my Jeanneau and are the manufacturer of the code zero offered as an extra by Jeanneau.

Don't limit yourself to one sailmaker just because they made the oem sails for your boat. My boat came with a Technique Voile jib and a Quantum main. The mainsail is much higher build quality than the jib. The jib has been to the sailmaker for repairs many times since early in it's life.

You will likely get a better sail from one of the bigger sailmakers such as Quantum or North, particularly on more specialized sails like a code sail.

Hi JY51.

Technique Voile is a good choice, a friend is currently crossing the atlantic with Technique voile sails, ( on a JPK) . Having seen them, they looks great.
As Zaphod said other sailmaker may being considered. Personaly, we have a Quantum A3 on l'ERTA 2. The sail has been cut here in the south of France.

Fabrice

[seayou]

Hello,

For Med peaceful cruising, you might want to check a Code D by Delta Voiles. Used it on my previous sailboat with lots of pleasure, very broad and versatile sail, from 55° to 145° AWA.

[jy51]

Dec 13, 2021 10:39:10 GMT Fabrice-Erta said:

Dec 4, 2021 19:10:14 GMT zaphod said:

Don't limit yourself to one sailmaker just because they made the oem sails for your boat. My boat came with a Technique Voile jib and a Quantum main. The mainsail is much higher build quality than the jib. The jib has been to the sailmaker for repairs many times since early in it's life.

You will likely get a better sail from one of the bigger sailmakers such as Quantum or North, particularly on more specialized sails like a code sail.

Hi JY51.

Technique Voile is a good choice, a friend is currently crossing the atlantic with Technique voile sails, ( on a JPK) . Having seen them, they looks great.
As Zaphod said other sailmaker may being considered. Personaly, we have a Quantum A3 on l'ERTA 2. The sail has been cut here in the south of France.

Fabrice

Thank you Fabrice, I am now in talks with Quantum, however, I am interested to know why an A3, I am lead to believe that although it can cover a wider range of angles and conditions it is not as close winded as the code zero.

[jy51]

Dec 14, 2021 8:20:31 GMT seayou said:

Hello,

For Med peaceful cruising, you might want to check a Code D by Delta Voiles. Used it on my previous sailboat with lots of pleasure, very broad and versatile sail, from 55° to 145° AWA.

Thank you seayou,

Delta Voiles are based not too far from where I live and so I have emailed them for information and a quotation.  I will be interested to see what they have to say regarding the Code D verses the Code 0.

[mdrsail]

I am watching this thread with interest, since I'm trying to improve my upwind performance and am considering a Code 0. I have the bowsprit on my 39i, which I use for my G3 (only good for reaching). My Genoa is 110%, so I would use the Code 0 for close hauled fetching during beercan racing in Marina Del Rey, which has average windspeeds of 9-12Kt. I can point fairly high with it, but I definitely need more sail area.
Am I thinking this through correctly? Does the 39i have any limitations for a Code 0 the way they do for a larger Genoa (swept shrouds and whatnot)?

[zaphod]

Dec 18, 2021 16:54:16 GMT mdrsail said:

I am watching this thread with interest, since I'm trying to improve my upwind performance and am considering a Code 0. I have the bowsprit on my 39i, which I use for my G3 (only good for reaching). My Genoa is 110%, so I would use the Code 0 for close hauled fetching during beercan racing in Marina Del Rey, which has average windspeeds of 9-12Kt. I can point fairly high with it, but I definitely need more sail area.
Am I thinking this through correctly? Does the 39i have any limitations for a Code 0 the way they do for a larger Genoa (swept shrouds and whatnot)?

The code 0 sheets outside the standing rigging like an asymmetric so there is no size limitation in that regard. The problem with a code0 for racing is that you would have to furl to tack, so it would only be good if you are on one tack for a long time.

If you are adding it to the standard Selden deck mounted bowsprit you would probably need to add a bobstay to handle the high tack loads that code sails generate.

[mdrsail]

Thanks for that input! My sailmaker is echoing that. I may have to wait on the code 0, as I would have to sail at larger angles and that wouldn't help me.

[mehmet]

I am using A5 from Quantum sails,which is deeper then Code 0 and am very happy with it. Depending on the AWS I can go to 45 degrees.

[virtualburton]

Sorry for newb question, but I'm new to sailing after a life on (cough) powerboats :-)

What are the advantages and main uses of a Code 0? I have heard and read others talk about them but have never used one. I have a Genoa and spinnaker on my boat. What would the code 0 bring to the table?

If this question is too general feel free to ignore!
David

[mehmet]

You can concider Code 0 as a bigger genoa. 

[rene460]

Hi David, I would add that the code zero is an upwind sail, while spinnakers are downwind sails.  Of course a good spinnaker sails quite well to the wind as shown by the mast head indicator, but that is the apparent wind, or the wind as seen from the boat including the effect of the boat speed.

If your instruments can show the true wind, or if you calculate it, you will see that you are still sailing downwind, it’s just the boat speed bringing the apparent wind so far forward that makes it feel like upwind.  I can achieve about 60 degrees apparent with my asymmetric, but my instruments show the true wind is still at 120 degrees.  It’s great to be sailing around half the wind speed or more in a 5 knot wind with the extra power of the asymmetric, but we are still going downwind.

You need the tight luff tension of the code zero to sail close enough to the wind to make progress upwind.

And a code zero has a lot more area than the Genoa, so is quite useful downwind as well, even if smaller than a spinnaker.  But if you have a bowsprit and a Bob stay to hold the necessary luff tension, and put it on a furler for easy handling, it will be very useful sail especially if like me you like sailing in very light winds.  I certainly wish I had one, but alas…….

rene460