kmary
New Member
Posts: 1
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Post by kmary on Apr 30, 2021 12:41:09 GMT
Curious about modifying the house stack on a 2021 895 Weekender with dual 200 Yamahas, AC and no generator. I don’t want to throw off the weighting, but want reasonable on ‘the hook’ electrical performance. I know AC is a pipe dream, but we are in the north east so that does not matter. Just curious what people have done for number of batteries, any other details would be appreciated. The plan is to add batteries and then put adequate solar in . (There is a thread on generator & solar , not looking to debate generators or AC, just curious about normal house loads and pure battery solutions )
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Post by thehammer on Apr 30, 2021 15:50:38 GMT
Hi,
Should be space for a few more units in the battery compartment. Can upgrade with a few more AGM's.
I'm putting in two 100Ah lithium and solar soon.
Some just drop them in without any other modificatins.
I will add in victron dc-dc charger from the starter battery to the lithium to reduce the load on the alternators and also to charge the lithiums with correct profil. In addition I'm installing a battery monitor and a battery protect to disconnect the loads if the V becomes to low.
Don't know if this helps.
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ea
Full Member
Posts: 32
Jeanneau Model: NC 895
Home Port: MIDLAND, ON
Country: CANADA
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Post by ea on May 1, 2021 14:59:51 GMT
Curious about modifying the house stack on a 2021 895 Weekender with dual 200 Yamahas, AC and no generator. I don’t want to throw off the weighting, but want reasonable on ‘the hook’ electrical performance. I know AC is a pipe dream, but we are in the north east so that does not matter. Just curious what people have done for number of batteries, any other details would be appreciated. The plan is to add batteries and then put adequate solar in . (There is a thread on generator & solar , not looking to debate generators or AC, just curious about normal house loads and pure battery solutions ) we are putting in two 100AH lithiums and a Xantrex XC2000 inverter/charger with an ACR. Current batteries will stay as engine batteries only. All house loads will go through the new batteries. Except AC, of course. not done yet so I can't comment on how it works, good or bad. I will be able to let you know in two months.
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Post by Gio on May 1, 2021 17:23:11 GMT
I have the 895 sport, I have rebuilt the battery system from scratch.
At the moment I have 2x engines batteries, and 2x 140Ah flooded house batteries. The house will be changed to lithium in the future.
In the new system I have installed remote on/off switchers, inverter/charger, battery monitor, I can now run the A/C when under way indefinitely using alternators from the enhines (I don't have the generator).
All monitored by the Simrad unit I have.
System has worked really well so far.
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Post by shaodx on May 11, 2021 0:14:38 GMT
I have replaced 2 flooded batteries with 2 170ah LiFePO4 on my 1095 and installed a Xantrex XC2000 charger/inverter. The original charger only charges 2 starter batteries and bow thruster battery now.
I have not installed any dc to dc charger as my boat has Dolphin ACS installed and it says it's good for lithium battery. It looks like charging property from alternator for now.
The only disadvantage of lithium battery is that it cannot be charged under 0 degree celsius. I may need to add a heater in the winter time.
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Post by thehammer on May 11, 2021 22:20:30 GMT
The dc-dc converter do a few things the ACS don't; - reduce amperage/current on the alternators. Many examples of burned and damaged alternators with Lithium. Some alternators are "smart" and sens temperatur. I have found no info on my yamaha's.
- correct charge profile for lithium. Lithium dont like high Volt after they are 100%.
Many users dont use dcdc and are happy with no issues what so ever. My thinking behind getting (300usd) dcdc is to expand the life of both the battery and the outboards which cost way more.
Lets check the results in 10 years time 😁
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Post by shaodx on May 12, 2021 19:09:08 GMT
The dc-dc converter do a few things the ACS don't; - reduce amperage/current on the alternators. Many examples of burned and damaged alternators with Lithium. Some alternators are "smart" and sens temperatur. I have found no info on my yamaha's. - correct charge profile for lithium. Lithium dont like high Volt after they are 100%. Many users dont use dcdc and are happy with no issues what so ever. My thinking behind getting (300usd) dcdc is to expand the life of both the battery and the outboards which cost way more. Lets check the results in 10 years time 😁 It's too bad that the Orion one only supports 30A. Since there are 2 alternators, I need 2 DC to DC chargers. Is it correct?
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Post by thehammer on May 12, 2021 20:49:42 GMT
It's only 30ah yes. You can have one but I will have two.
If you have a bigger alternator you can also use a buck-boost. Not as smart, but regulate current.
Since you already have this installed I guss you could install a temp sensor (fixed or temporary) on the altornators while charging max. If thats fine no need to change I guess.
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Post by shaodx on May 12, 2021 23:38:06 GMT
It's only 30ah yes. You can have one but I will have two. If you have a bigger alternator you can also use a buck-boost. Not as smart, but regulate current. Since you already have this installed I guss you could install a temp sensor (fixed or temporary) on the altornators while charging max. If thats fine no need to change I guess. I did some homework and found that the Dolphin ACS works below: It limits both voltage and amperage. It looks like it works with outboards and lithium batteries. I have sent an email to Dolphin to ask if I need to add a DC to DC charger between ACS and lithium house battery bank. Let's see how they reply.
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Post by thehammer on May 13, 2021 7:25:18 GMT
I read up on that ACS before I wrote first. It's a good piece of equipment.
However, the way I read it looks to limit the amp's out off the battery and not in. It's limit the volts, but with high and lows that most likely boarderline the battery BMS.
Anyway good you sent a mail to them to see what they say.
I was recommended the same solution as you, and in a sidenote they mentioned I needed to make sure my engine room was ventilated. After they understood that the alternators was sqeezed inside the outboards and did not get too much cooling at idel or low speed they changed.
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Post by shaodx on May 13, 2021 22:54:56 GMT
I am not sure what is the "Safe" amperage in low speed(1000 rpm). The below graph shows the alternator outputs 55a on 1000 rpm. Since Victron only has 30a charger, the number may be 30? However, the charge efficiency is only 43% when rpm is greater than 2500, while my cruising rpm is around 4200.
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Post by shaodx on May 13, 2021 22:59:20 GMT
Outboard alternator uses water cooling, while regular alternator uses air cooling. The safe amperage may be higher.
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Post by Gio on May 14, 2021 5:18:05 GMT
This thing about burning alternators might be overblown.
Has anyone direct experience or examples when a modern outboard alternator burnt for heavy usage? I spent a bit of time in design my system and talked to few boat builders and I found no cases of alternators damaged while charging lithium batteries has been reported so far.
Modern alternators have a name plate capacity and are designed for heavy usage, I have the new mercury V8 and nowhere in the user manual says not to use the maximum amperage for long periods otherwise the alternators will burn.
My advice is before spending thousands in components, double check with the engine manufacturers or professional installations that have installed similar systems.
Last, on the minimum rpm to get decent amperage out of the alternators, Mercury V8 has plenty of capacity (70Ah+ per engine) at 1200 / 1400 rpm
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Post by thehammer on May 14, 2021 7:57:31 GMT
Outboard alternator uses water cooling, while regular alternator uses air cooling. The safe amperage may be higher. If this is the case outbord will be safer than inboard. However the spare parts I looked at for the alternators don't look to be watercooled but maybe they have cooled block I cant see.
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Post by thehammer on May 14, 2021 8:45:05 GMT
Gio; I do not know anyone who have damaged their outbords. It's a good point. I have seen more cases on inboards in other forums.
It's all based on second hand information and battery manufacturers advice.
As you see in the video, if the alternator is "non smart" it could fail on high loads. For all I know the alternators in outboard is equiped with internal temperature sensors and then also adjusting the output accordingly. I have used many hours trying to find out the design of the alternators. Yamaha adviced against using Lithium, without any just cause.
As mentioned, I don't buy the dcdc only in case of sudden fail, it's also for longer life of the alternators and battery-bank. I paied a total of 410usd for the two orions. If not getting this I would anyway have to get ACS or relay of some sort.
My equipment is currently sitting in a box waiting in line for installation at the yard, so if you (gio) could share your set-up, I could take that into account when upgrading.
Ps!! English is my 3rd language, so excuse my typos and sentences. My phone dont use typo correct when in this forum for some reason.
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Post by shaodx on May 14, 2021 19:58:55 GMT
Outboard alternator uses water cooling, while regular alternator uses air cooling. The safe amperage may be higher. If this is the case outbord will be safer than inboard. However the spare parts I looked at for the alternators don't look to be watercooled but maybe they have cooled block I cant see. Can you share the part number of Yamaha alternator? Thanks
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Post by thehammer on May 15, 2021 20:59:09 GMT
If this is the case outbord will be safer than inboard. However the spare parts I looked at for the alternators don't look to be watercooled but maybe they have cooled block I cant see. Can you share the part number of Yamaha alternator? Thanks This should be the sparepart list of my outboard. Alot of parts for the "generator" as they call it on this page. If you move up one level the entire electrical system and diagrams are also availeble. www.megazip.net/zapchasti-dlya-lodochnyh-motorov/yamaha/f225-7251/f225-18483/f225f-17-841993/generator-15850344I should be able to find the on the official page but lazy today.
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Post by alexrom on Apr 25, 2022 19:51:56 GMT
I'm adding a dedicated lithium bank for housing loads and inverter/charger. The original cristec charger will be charging only engines batteries. The thing I stumbled upon is shore power lines connected to the Blue Seas AC distributor and it looks like the port plug powers the Cristec, when the starbord line is for waterheater and something else. What would you connect the inverter/charger to? Which shore power input?
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