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Post by Bora on Mar 16, 2021 20:33:43 GMT
So after some proper research (rather than glancing over articles) it turns out I can't take my boat back to the UK without paying VAT as i wasn't the one that exported the yacht from the UK.
So with a revised summer plan ahead i'm looking to move the boat from Sicily and base her in Greece for some varied sailing. We would like to be near a decent airport for when people are allowed to fly again.
Any suggestions for a reasonably well priced/secure marina?
Can anyone summarise the Greek situation? I've seen various posts on different paperwork etc but hadn't paid much heed as I was thinking I was going back to Scotland.
I am currently working in the Pacific and my partner is in Germany so we're hoping she'll be able to fly direct to Sicily as well and we can get the boat moving. Would be around the second week of May to get underway.
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Post by alenka on Mar 17, 2021 9:13:22 GMT
Hi Bora,
The CA are currently taking legal opinion on HMRC actions regarding double charging of VAT. HMRC can only implement law they cannot make it and there is a suggestion that they have overstepped their authority. In view of your circumstances I would use Malcolm's introductory offer and pay for a years membership. I get 5% discount off my marina fees with membership so it more than pays for itself. They have arrangements with many marinas.
Greece is a country of more than a few halves. Many people think of it as just being the Ionian when in fact there are many distinct cruising areas - Athens, Thesoloniki, Rhodes, Mykonos, etc.,
Compared with many Med countries marinas can offer good value for money but it is no longer the cheap as chips place it used to be. Perhaps on a par cost wise with Scotland.
In the Ionian the main marinas are Gouvia (Corfu), Preveza & Lefkas. All between a €25 - €50 taxi ride from an international airport. But you should note that international flights may not happen in winter. There are all year round flights into Athens but many marinas are booked solid by charter fleets. I personally like the ambience of Alimos (Athens) but it does not strike me as being very secure and it can be quite dirty at times. Taxi fares from the airport are fixed by the government at (if my memory is correct) €50 per journey.
Thesoloniki is a big city but the cruising area is underdeveloped. No doubt perfect for some but not really for me.
Mykonos is a Greek party island spoiled by just too many tourists - the locals don't have to do much to bring the trade in. Don't expect a traditional Greek welcome. The marina is also managed in a very strange way; but never-the-less there are some great islands to visit in the immediate cruising area.
There are of course good marinas on many of the smaller islands but these can often require a flight into Athens followed by a local one to the island. When the two don't connect expect an overnight at Athens airport.
I would warn against the local entrepreneur who will offer you a place in the local harbour and promise to watch your boat year round. They are not official and have no authority. At the first sign of trouble they are not to be seen.
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Post by Bora on Mar 17, 2021 15:33:11 GMT
Thanks Alenka, i'll give those areas a look and see if any would suit our plans/needs.
I've got a CA membership but haven't been keeping up to date with the goings on, i'll have to have another trawl through their articles. Still hopeful i'll be able to get back to Scotland without paying a fortune but we'll see what happens.
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Post by mehmet on Mar 17, 2021 16:26:18 GMT
So after some proper research (rather than glancing over articles) it turns out I can't take my boat back to the UK without paying VAT as i wasn't the one that exported the yacht from the UK. So with a revised summer plan ahead i'm looking to move the boat from Sicily and base her in Greece for some varied sailing. We would like to be near a decent airport for when people are allowed to fly again. Any suggestions for a reasonably well priced/secure marina? Can anyone summarise the Greek situation? I've seen various posts on different paperwork etc but hadn't paid much heed as I was thinking I was going back to Scotland. I am currently working in the Pacific and my partner is in Germany so we're hoping she'll be able to fly direct to Sicily as well and we can get the boat moving. Would be around the second week of May to get underway. Hi Bora, Rhodes Marina could be a good solution for your need. Rhodes has an jnternational airport with good connections and the new marina in Rhodes offer good mooring prices.
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Post by alenka on Mar 17, 2021 17:57:42 GMT
To keep my brain active during Covid lockdown I have started posting short videos of our 2020 covid / medicane cruise on Instagram. After a shaky start I think I now have a format that is informative to fellow cruisers interested in the area...... More so since the current ones also have a commentary of sorts. I'm not going to be drawn into the Instagram nonsense of, if you follow my pet hamster I will follow your sailing!!! And, I have also managed to resist similar offers from bikini clad girls!!! What is this instagram culture all about? Anyway, they might give you an insight. http://instagram.com/p/CJrRIPVAgyC
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Post by alenka on Mar 18, 2021 9:38:09 GMT
Bora,
At the moment people are reporting problems with Preveza Customs who are not following official instructions passed down from Athens regarding the issue of Unlimited Transit Logs. In short, they are refusing to acknowledge your EU VAT paid status agreed as part of the Brexit deal.
They have also said that they intend to check for overstays on the Schengen 90/180 days rule! A strange comment as this is the role of immigration not customs.
Combined with the many past reports of Preveza Port Police inventing their own rules I would suggest you do not consider using Preveza as a port of entry or a place for completing any official Greek paperwork.
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Post by Bora on Mar 18, 2021 17:26:19 GMT
Thanks for the pointers, i'll have to get into reading all of the ins/outs for dealing with Greek officials, any time i've been there with work we have lovely shoreside agents that manage it all for us.
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Post by jy51 on Mar 20, 2021 9:16:56 GMT
So after some proper research (rather than glancing over articles) it turns out I can't take my boat back to the UK without paying VAT as i wasn't the one that exported the yacht from the UK. So with a revised summer plan ahead i'm looking to move the boat from Sicily and base her in Greece for some varied sailing. We would like to be near a decent airport for when people are allowed to fly again. Any suggestions for a reasonably well priced/secure marina? Can anyone summarise the Greek situation? I've seen various posts on different paperwork etc but hadn't paid much heed as I was thinking I was going back to Scotland. I am currently working in the Pacific and my partner is in Germany so we're hoping she'll be able to fly direct to Sicily as well and we can get the boat moving. Would be around the second week of May to get underway. Do I understand by your posting, that your original intension was to return your boat to the UK, but the VAT commitment means you will keep her in the Med? If losing your EU citizenship is the cause of your problem, have you thought of moving the boat to Turkey? If you follow AB Sea Sailing they have wintered in Turkey for the last two years and pay for a 6 month residency permit, this would give you the whole summer access to your boat and it seems the costs there are far below European prices........just a thought!
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Post by Bora on Mar 20, 2021 19:14:32 GMT
I was hoping to move the boat back to the UK so that we can spend more time at home when we're on leave (we both work on superyachts and are away 2 months on/off) and get out sailing with friends and family a bit easier.
Looks like the VAT will stop me taking the boat back home so we'll likely head to Greece from Sicily this May and just visit the boat when we can.
With our work rotations we should be ok with 90 days in a 180 period.
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peterf
New Member
Posts: 5
Jeanneau Model: SO 36.2
Yacht Name: October Song
Home Port: Ionian
Country: Greece
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Post by peterf on Mar 20, 2021 23:00:04 GMT
Hi Bora
I've kept a yacht in the Ionian for several years now, and an option many owners take, including me recently, is to keep their boat ashore in one of the 3 large boatyards at Aktio, opposite Preveza. They are Cleopatra, which also has a small marina, Ionion Marine (the one I use) and Aktio Marine. They are almost half the price of an annual marina berth, and they launch you when you want to go sailing, and haul you out when you want to go home.
They are a 40 minute walk from Preveza airport, or a 10 minute taxi ride, and you can be in really nice cruising grounds in half a day from launching. All the yards have chandlery, toilets, showers, washing machines etc, and there are two tavernas and a tiny minimart nearby.
Let me know if you'd like to know more.
My boat is ashore in Vangelis' boatyard in Corfu Town currently. As soon as we're allowed out again, I'll be getting her ready to launch, and probably moving to Gouvia Marina for a month, to do some more renovations and meet friends, before setting off for whatever remains of he summer!
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Post by alenka on Mar 20, 2021 23:14:27 GMT
Things seem to be moving quickly in Greece and in the wrong direction.
Greek customs are refusing to follow the EU directive that says British flagged boats in EU waters on the 31st December, 2021 retain EU VAT paid status. The Unlimited Transit Logs they promised are not being issued, meaning all UK boats will have to leave Greek waters every 18 months.
This is a very, very strange state of affairs. Normally, only boats carrying a non EU flag which have not paid VAT follow this requirement so as to reset the clock and avoid this tax. This unilateral stance made by Greece seems to suggest that UK flagged boats merely have to leave Greek waters not EU waters - which is non-sensical.
Equally bizarre is that British nationals with Greek residency rights are being given just 30 days to remove their boats from Greek waters or face paying tax (again). Ironically, when I tried to purchase a non tax paid Jersey registered boat in Corfu some years ago they flatly refused to accept the tax payment?!?
I am at a loss to suggest why they have chosen (it would seem) not only to break EU law and EU directives but also part of the Brexit agreement.
At a time when Greece is looking to Britain as one of the safest options to provide a huge influx of covid free tourists and keep its fragile economy afloat why would they want to provoke a potential backlash that could easily result in Britain refusing to establish an air corridor between the two countries as it did last year?
Bora, Personally, I would not make any plans to move your boat to Greece at the moment but rather look to Croatia as an alternative. Equally, I would not even think about transmitting Greek waters to get to Turkey until this is settled.
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Post by Bora on Mar 20, 2021 23:47:07 GMT
All great advice thanks!
I'm keen on Croatia and Montenegro again this year as we had a great time cruising there last July.
We have our berth in Marina di Ragusa until mid May and i'd rather move somewhere else with plenty of cruising on the doorstep rather than a couple of days sail away.
Will just have to see how it pans out, ideally i'm still hoping the HMRC will sort their heads out and let me sail home.
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Post by hoppy on Apr 8, 2021 11:38:42 GMT
Things seem to be moving quickly in Greece and in the wrong direction. Greek customs are refusing to follow the EU directive that says British flagged boats in EU waters on the 31st December, 2021 retain EU VAT paid status. The Unlimited Transit Logs they promised are not being issued, meaning all UK boats will have to leave Greek waters every 18 months. This is a very, very strange state of affairs. Normally, only boats carrying a non EU flag which have not paid VAT follow this requirement so as to reset the clock and avoid this tax. This unilateral stance made by Greece seems to suggest that UK flagged boats merely have to leave Greek waters not EU waters - which is non-sensical. Equally bizarre is that British nationals with Greek residency rights are being given just 30 days to remove their boats from Greek waters or face paying tax (again). Ironically, when I tried to purchase a non tax paid Jersey registered boat in Corfu some years ago they flatly refused to accept the tax payment?!? I am at a loss to suggest why they have chosen (it would seem) not only to break EU law and EU directives but also part of the Brexit agreement. At a time when Greece is looking to Britain as one of the safest options to provide a huge influx of covid free tourists and keep its fragile economy afloat why would they want to provoke a potential backlash that could easily result in Britain refusing to establish an air corridor between the two countries as it did last year? Bora, Personally, I would not make any plans to move your boat to Greece at the moment but rather look to Croatia as an alternative. Equally, I would not even think about transmitting Greek waters to get to Turkey until this is settled. It's good to see that nothing much has changed in Greece. Total chaos and confusion about the rules and different interpretations at every port.
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peterf
New Member
Posts: 5
Jeanneau Model: SO 36.2
Yacht Name: October Song
Home Port: Ionian
Country: Greece
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Post by peterf on Apr 9, 2021 13:24:53 GMT
A p.s. for UK registered yachts in Preveza and the boatyards opposite: Sofia Gravani of "All About Yachts" in Preveza is acting as agent to obtain the new Unlimited Transit Log. I have used her services previously for DEKPAs and Cruising Tax and was very pleased with the service. Sadly I can't use her this time as my yacht is ashore in Corfu.
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Post by vasko on Apr 9, 2021 19:36:20 GMT
it is very different in Greece - every part has places for any taste ... I have spent years in Ionian ( hate Cleopatra - with their extremely overpriced services, average quality jobs and special restrictions , love VYC in Vliho ,etc.) ,Years around Athens and Cyclades - my personal preference are Cyclades.. and best place for price/quality is Porto Lagos Norther Greece ...
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Post by alenka on Apr 10, 2021 8:02:48 GMT
Hoppy,
Spot on. The one thing they have just agreed and they are 100% correct is that you cannot have a boat on the British SSR if you are a resident in Greece. ie more than 183 days per year. In this case you have to be on part 1 registration. (situation confirmed by the MCA).
Following a complaint to the EU Commission made by the CA Greece is now back tracking on its position regarding UK VAT paid boats. Do not expect an Unlimited Transit Log (UTL) just yet if your paperwork shows VAT paid in the UK - Even Sophie is drawing a blank on this - But it is looking hopeful that Greece will fall into line with the rest of Europe quite soon.
Bora, it also seems that HMRC are also back peddling on some of the blockers they recently put in place on bringing a boat back from the EU to the UK. I seem to remember however that you bought your boat outside the UK so this might still remain a sticking point for you.
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Post by vasko on Apr 10, 2021 8:15:42 GMT
Hoppy, Spot on. The one thing they have just agreed and they are 100% correct is that you cannot have a boat on the British SSR if you are a resident in Greece. ie more than 183 days per year. In this case you have to be on part 1 registration. (situation confirmed by the MCA). Following a complaint to the EU Commission made by the CA Greece is now back tracking on its position regarding UK VAT paid boats. Do not expect an Unlimited Transit Log (UTL) just yet if your paperwork shows VAT paid in the UK - Even Sophie is drawing a blank on this - But it is looking hopeful that Greece will fall into line with the rest of Europe quite soon. Bora, it also seems that HMRC are also back peddling on some of the blockers they recently put in place on bringing a boat back from the EU to the UK. I seem to remember however that you bought your boat outside the UK so this might still remain a sticking point for you. Agree about the SSR - one of the questions that the customs officer asked me ifor my UTL was do I stay in Greece more then 6 months ...
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