New Member: Sun 2000 remove lift keel

[dossi23]

Hello to all,

since summer 2014 I'm owner of a Sun 2000. an ideal boat to sail on inland lakes. The boat was originally petrol green. Two years ago I repainted it. Looks really elegant now, I think.

Now I want to overhaul the lift keel. For this I need your tips and advice on how to remove the keel. Is there anywhere a outline somewhere how the keel is fixed in the boat.
I am grateful for every hint.

[MalcolmP]

Not Sun 2000 specific I am afraid but there are some tips on removing and servicing other Jeanneau lift keels here that may help:

www.jeanneau-owners.com/hintsandtipsindexhull.html#

Also worth asking on the Sun 2000 Facebook group: www.facebook.com/groups/34951139467/

[rene460]

Hi Dossi23,

First, welcome to the forum.  It’s a great place to catch up with like minded people, and there is a wealth of timeless information in the archives, well worth browsing through.

I am totally with you on the lift keel being great in shallow lakes.  And I like the new colour.  We have the SO30i swing keel, and sail in an estuary lake system with large areas of very shallow water.  Anything over 5 m is deep!  And over 2 m may be the only channel through, 1.5 in some places, but there are vast areas under 1 m.

I hesitated for some years before finally tackling removing the keel, and in the end it was a non-event, I should have done it earlier.  I suspect that once you work out the design you will also find it is not too difficult.  But there are several different schemes used on different models over the years, and I don’t know what you have.

So first have a close look and see what you have.   First, is it a lift keel, that is moves straight up and down, or a swing keel, that pivots around a pin.  I think that is the principle Jeanneau seem to have used mostly, but let’s be sure we are talking about the same thing.

Then, what is the lift mechanism?  Mine has a simple rope that attached to an eyebolt on the keel aft of the pin, runs up to a turning block at the cabin roof and aft to a cleat near the winch.  I need the winch, though a stronger person might not need it.  Some have a block and tackle in the casing in the cabin.  Some have a mechanical screw.  Other boats have a hydraulic cylinder, though I don’t know if Jeanneau have ever used that.

Assuming a pin and swing keel, have an explore for where the pin is located.  Mine is below the boat, in the shallow keel and is concealed and sealed by sikaflex or similar sealant, which is easily dug out.  Some earlier designs the pin was accessed from inside the hull below the floor level.  I don’t know the keel configuration of the Sun 2000.

The lift mechanism on ours and on all the drawings I have seen of other models is in a casing below the table in the cabin and has an inspection hatch on the side.  That inspection hatch is very close to, but above the water level so can be removed when moored in still water, so you can see what you are dealing with.

So perhaps first have an explore to see what you have got.  If you don’t get more specific advice on the Facebook group, we can explore the ways of dealing with what you find.  I believe that what I did is in the hints and tips as Malcolm has indicated, but I can certainly add more detail or answer specific questions if needed.

Even if you get a full procedure, please stay in touch here so we can see how you go.  I am not the only member that does not do Facebook, so I am sure others will be interested.

Rene460

[dossi23]

Thank you very much for the information. What I found in the Facebook Group are this outlines:
But I'm still not quite sure how to get to the pin.



 Attachment DeletedAttachment Deleted

If I understand the drawing correctly, I first have to remove the part of the bottom (1).

[rene460]

Hi Dossi,

Those are very interesting and informative drawings.  Now we can work out a more specific approach.

That lifting arrangement would not lift a heavy board, so we can conclude that it is a centreboard for reducing leeway, rather than a keel that contributes to stability.  It can still be reasonably heavy as it must not float in water.  I would guess somewhere around 20 to 30 kg, but treat it carefully until you are sure.  On my SO30i, the board is about 35 kg, so I think yours will be a little less.

Next we need to understand that part no 1.  I am wondering if it is actually the ballast that is needed on a boat of that size, and shaped to facilitate loading the boat onto a trailer.  In that case, it could be cast iron or even lead.  There is something about the way it is drawn that makes me wonder.  It will be worth investigating that first, as that may be the heavy part.  Do you keep the boat on a trailer?  Or is it normally moored?  Whether it is ballast, or simply a fairing, it will have fixings to hold it to the hull.  If it is heavy, it is likely this will involve bolt heads or nuts inside the hull, and you will need to find out the weight of that ballast.  You need to find out, even if it means scratching the paint off to see what is under, even though that means a paint repair job.

For the pin, there will be clues somewhere.  Have a good look around the front of the centreboard casing in the cabin.  Is there any sign of bolt heads, or cover plates that might conceal the pin ends?

Those brackets might be on the inside of the casing and might secure the pin.  But the brackets themselves have to be fixed to the hull.  I can see two possibilities, they could be attached to the hull, and that fairing panel fixed later, in which case the fairing will have to be removed.  Alternatively, they could pass right through that fairing and fixed after it is in place.  Hard to tell as the picture is a simplified sketch rather than a detailed drawing.  

I would recommend more searching or questions on that Facebook forum to see if anyone has more details.  But more importantly I would chase down the Jeanneau documentation, which should be on the Jeanneau website under “ancient models”.  Otherwise Malcolm has previously posted the email address for queries, and he will probably come back shortly with the address, or send him a pm.  But plenty to work out and prepare while the answer comes.  The manual does not always include everything.  So sometimes the email specific query is needed.

The basic procedure is to support the boat on a high cradle so there is room to work underneath, and at least the width of the board clear underneath.  The board should be near fully up.  Then you can put a jack under the board as far aft as possible, and lift the bottom end slightly.  This should give you approximately half the total weight.  Then with a very delicate touch, take the weight of the other half on the lift rope, essentially trying to take the weight off the pin, while recognising there is minimal clearance so you don’t want an upward force on the pin.  That is the point you take the pin out, and lower the board by the lifting rope at the front end and by a strong helper or two under the back end.  Now you can see why all the information is required before you start.

If that bottom fairing is ballast it will be heavy, and if it has to be removed to access the bracket bolts to remove them, the fairing has to be removed first.  But I am hopeful that the brackets may be removable from below without removing the ballast.    My previous boat was a light weight 24 foot trailerable with similar hull form to your photos.  It had a lift keel which included 400 kg of ballast, but I know other designs had much less.   If that fairing is ballast, and has to be removed, you need a good idea of it’s weight.

If you keep the boat on a trailer, does the trailer structure allow you to drop the centreboard?  If not you may need a crane anyway.

So still surmising a lot of information from general consideration of boats with a similar arrangement, but those drawings are definitely helpful.  Definitely a good step foreword, but we are not there yet.

Of course if all else fails, the centreboard can be sanded and repainted by supporting the boat in a yard on a high cradle so the board can be fully lowered.  Then you can work on all the part that protrudes below the hull.  Unless there is specific damage, you may not need more.

rene460

[dossi23]

Hello Rene,

We have finally started the action and have removed and renovated the keel. Thank you very much for your advice. In fact, the screws (see arrow) for the bracket were accessible from below without removing a fairing. We lifted the boat from the trailer with a pulley and after loosening the screws, the keel with the bracket and the pin comes towards you and can thus be removed relatively easily. Attached is a photo of the keel with the bracket after removal. We then sanded down the keel, rebuilt it with an epoxy primer, painted it with VC17 and reinstalled it.


Dossi

[rene460]

Hi Dossi, well done on figuring out and making such good progress.  Now you have done it, it will be so easy next time.

The only comment I would make is to ensure that you use a suitable lubricant on the screws when you put them back in, so you can remove them next time.  The one I used was a green paste, sold in yacht chandleries to prevent galvanic corrosion around fittings attached to masts.  

I hope you will be good enough to write a hints and tips article for Malcolm to include.  We are gradually building a reference source for all the various designs that will be valuable to other forum members for years to come.

Many happy sailing days now ahead.



rene460



 

[jannie]

Thanks everyone. I am new here and found this thread really helpful.

[wouter81]

Hi Dossi & Rene,

Impressive thread on the keel repair. I am currently struggling with a small repair I hope to perform while the boat is still in the water. Do you by coincidence also have pictures how the construction was on the part which you can approach from within the boat ? Can you in your opinion replace “ the pin “ whilst the boat is still in the water ?

regards Wouter

[rene460]

Hi Wouter,

Thank you for your kind comments.  I will leave it to Dossi to answer whether the keel could be removed with the boat afloat, but for my part, I would be reluctant to try.

From the sketches Dossi has presented, you can see the brackets supporting the pin are entirely within the casing and appear to be removable from outside the hull, but the screws or bolts  which hold it in may go right through the hull possibly with nuts inside.  You will be able to see from inside the boat more clearly.  Usually such fixtures would be positioned with sealant to prevent water seepage and possibly causing material degradation in the area around the bolts.  Not to mention the probability of dropping one, and supporting the weight of the board throughout the procedure.

All the swing keel designs I have seen have the pin below the waterline, so even if it was accessible from inside the hull, removing it with the boat afloat has plenty of potential disaster. 

I assume your boat lives on a trailer, or can be hauled out on a trailer, but the trailer structure normally obstructs removal of a swing type centreboard.  Hence I feel you would need to remove the boat from the trailer, and having done this for a somewhat smaller boat, I would in future use a crane to lift the boat.  The boat yard may be the cheapest and most efficient in the long run, though you may be able to negotiate for a crane hire company to do it in their yard.  There are definitely more options to move a boat on a trailer to a crane.

You have not explained what repair you are wanting to do.  Possibly minor damage from grounding?  

Please keep us informed of how you proceed, and take plenty of photos to help others who may need to do something similar.

rene460

PS Dossi has not been online for over a year, so may not see your post.  You could try sending a PM as he may then receive an email notice of your query.