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Post by sunrise4 on Nov 13, 2020 13:37:06 GMT
Erik, nice!
I did not know about the Xantrex switch, so I'll have to think about replacing my manual DPDT switch...
Thanks for sharing the pics!
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Erik
Junior Member
Posts: 20
Jeanneau Model: Sun Odyssey 39i
Yacht Name: Miss Charlotte
Home Port: Port Washington, NY
Country: USA
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Post by Erik on Nov 13, 2020 14:38:05 GMT
The transfer switch was $60 on Amazon: www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004S5Y158/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_image?ie=UTF8&psc=1. After I identified the wiring for the AC outlets, it was relatively easy to install. Keep in mind that Jeanneau (at least my Jeanneau which was built in France) uses internationally (or French) colored AC wiring even though it's 120 v / 60 hz: brown for hot (gets wired to black on the transfer switch), blue for neutral (gets wired to white on the transfer switch), and green-yellow for ground (gets wired to green on the transfer switch). The transfer switch then gets "plugged-in" to the inverter so I ran a 12/3 (12 gauge / 3 wire) outdoor extension cord from the transfer switch to the inverter. I had to cut the plug off to route the wire, then attached a new plug at the inverter end. I'm very happy with the way the transfer switch operates. I also added a 2" round vent hole to the compartment the inverter sits in. Though the compartment is vented via the other compartments it's connected to, I felt it was better to add some additional venting. Attachment Deleted
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Post by zaphod on Nov 13, 2020 19:02:10 GMT
It looks like you did a pretty good job on the install, although you should have used proper marine grade AC cable rather than an extension cord.
I am curious what you did in terms of grounding for the inverter ac circuit. On my 39i the shore power ground is isolated from the DC negative. Did you ground to the negative, or leave it floating?
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Post by rxc on Nov 13, 2020 21:10:38 GMT
Erik, Good for you. Just the right things to do to make life on board a bit more civilized. I did the same thing, twice. Once for my Catalina 34, and again for my Jeanneau 43DS, and I have never looked back. It started when my wife wanted to be able to re-heat her cup of tea, and turned into a major boat re-wiring project. But I learned a lot about the boat, and have never regretted it. I just discovered this thread and was going to recommend the xantrex inverter, which has been working for me for the past 13 years. If you want to really increase your battery capability, think about switching to golf cart batteries(lead acid), or the new LiP batteries. And then on to the alternator upgrade to be able to charge them. You will eventually end up with solar panels, batteries, and maybe a genset for new the air conditioner, too. Have fun!
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Erik
Junior Member
Posts: 20
Jeanneau Model: Sun Odyssey 39i
Yacht Name: Miss Charlotte
Home Port: Port Washington, NY
Country: USA
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Post by Erik on Nov 13, 2020 21:58:24 GMT
RXC -
That's exactly right! My project also started with a goal to heat up a cup of tea. I've since added fuses, upgraded wiring, replaced the diode isolator with a Victron ArgoFet isolator, now thinking about an external regulator for alternator, a SafetyHub to properly fuse the entire charge bus (Jeaneau doesn't do this). Eventually I'll need a washing machine, water maker, air conditioning, genset. Oh, and a bigger boat!
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Erik
Junior Member
Posts: 20
Jeanneau Model: Sun Odyssey 39i
Yacht Name: Miss Charlotte
Home Port: Port Washington, NY
Country: USA
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Post by Erik on Nov 13, 2020 22:06:09 GMT
It looks like you did a pretty good job on the install, although you should have used proper marine grade AC cable rather than an extension cord. I am curious what you did in terms of grounding for the inverter ac circuit. On my 39i the shore power ground is isolated from the DC negative. Did you ground to the negative, or leave it floating? I thought about marine grade AC cable... that's easy enough to swap out in the future. By the way, in going through the existing battery cables, it seems that the stuff Jeanneau installs at the factory is pure copper, not marine tinned. After 13 years, it seems just fine too.... As for the grounding for the inverter AC circuit, I believe I followed the instructions and didn't do anything in particular. The inverter is connected to the DC negative, a chassis ground connection with a separate path to the same DC negative, and the AC output is simply a dual GFCI outlet into which I plug the extension cord that feeds the Transfer Relay. So is it floating or does the inverter internally connect the DC negative to the AC ground? I don't know. I should probably put a meter on it and test for continuity or a voltage difference. I also don't know if the shore power ground is connected to the DC negative on the boat. It sounds like it might not be. I also don't have a galvanic isolator, though that is on my list.
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Post by zaphod on Nov 13, 2020 22:48:17 GMT
It looks like you did a pretty good job on the install, although you should have used proper marine grade AC cable rather than an extension cord. I am curious what you did in terms of grounding for the inverter ac circuit. On my 39i the shore power ground is isolated from the DC negative. Did you ground to the negative, or leave it floating? I thought about marine grade AC cable... that's easy enough to swap out in the future. By the way, in going through the existing battery cables, it seems that the stuff Jeanneau installs at the factory is pure copper, not marine tinned. After 13 years, it seems just fine too.... As for the grounding for the inverter AC circuit, I believe I followed the instructions and didn't do anything in particular. The inverter is connected to the DC negative, a chassis ground connection with a separate path to the same DC negative, and the AC output is simply a dual GFCI outlet into which I plug the extension cord that feeds the Transfer Relay. So is it floating or does the inverter internally connect the DC negative to the AC ground? I don't know. I should probably put a meter on it and test for continuity or a voltage difference. I also don't know if the shore power ground is connected to the DC negative on the boat. It sounds like it might not be. I also don't have a galvanic isolator, though that is on my list. Yes I discovered the un-tinned battery cables when I upgraded my batteries. I replaced all of the interconnecting cables on my bank with tinned since they were all too long anyway, but I wasn't about to start replacing all of the cables... I wondered about galvanic isolators so I tested my shore power ground and it is definitely not connected to the DC negative so a galvanic isolator should not be needed. On the other hand ABYC says the ground SHOULD be connected to negative. I wonder if you might have created a galvanic issue if your inverter connects ac ground to dc negative internally. It is something worth checking into before you dissolve your prop! I am planning an inverter installation this winter, but I also need a bigger battery charger so I am going with a inverter/charger combo unit. I like your idea of getting a battery switch from jeanneau for the inverter disconnect. I didn't think of that. BTW another option for battery upgrade is the Firefly Carbon foam AGM. They are more expensive than regular AGM but you can run them down to 20% without damaging them. They are still much cheaper than lithium. Here is my 450ah bank: I am also installing 320w worth of flexible solar panels over the winter.
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Erik
Junior Member
Posts: 20
Jeanneau Model: Sun Odyssey 39i
Yacht Name: Miss Charlotte
Home Port: Port Washington, NY
Country: USA
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Post by Erik on Nov 13, 2020 23:02:14 GMT
That's a nice looking battery bank! I'm using FLA deep cycle batteries. AGM batteries are on my list, but one upgrade at a time. I will definitely explore the AC ground issue. Even if the inverter does connect its AC ground to its DC negative, the shore power ground is not connected to the inverter AC ground -- they are kept separate by the transfer switch.
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Post by rxc on Nov 17, 2020 17:44:38 GMT
RXC - That's exactly right! My project also started with a goal to heat up a cup of tea. I've since added fuses, upgraded wiring, replaced the diode isolator with a Victron ArgoFet isolator, now thinking about an external regulator for alternator, a SafetyHub to properly fuse the entire charge bus (Jeaneau doesn't do this). Eventually I'll need a washing machine, water maker, air conditioning, genset. Oh, and a bigger boat! That is EXACTLY what I ended up doing, except for the washing machine - I think that only boats around 50 ft have room form them. Oh, also I don't have any diode isolators - I used battery combiners (voltage sensitive relays) and an isolation transformer. One thing you might want to consider, because a future surveyor may say something about it. The electrical codes require fuses on the batteries to protect the wiring from shorts, and I originally installed a Class T fuse on the outlet, but that does not protect other stuff connected to the batteries, such as solar/wind units, and sensing lines, which like to be connected directly to the batteries. Fuses on sensing lines inside the battery compartment can cause all sorts of "interesting" failures, as the offgas from the batteries eats into them. I eventually found "battery fuses" from Blue Seas systems, that sit on the battery terminals and protect everything attached down stream. I have them on my house bank, on the engine battery, the bow thruster/sindlass battery, and on the genset battery. Very small and discrete, easy to replace if you have an event, and immune to offgas corrosion. Also, you should use LOTS of di-electric grease, on all the connections. I still have one last project, to rewire the isolation transformer so that it is easier to change the connections to accomodate 240v inputs, rather than the 120v power supplied here in the US. I think I have figured out what to do, just looking for the box to put it into. Boats - the maintenance and projects never stop.
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Erik
Junior Member
Posts: 20
Jeanneau Model: Sun Odyssey 39i
Yacht Name: Miss Charlotte
Home Port: Port Washington, NY
Country: USA
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Post by Erik on Nov 17, 2020 20:40:35 GMT
I tried the blue sea battery terminal fuses last year, but they added too much height to the battery so the compartment wouldn't shut. I instead recently put a 300 amp ANL fuse on the red wire coming off the house battery bank. This makes everything on the "load bus" fused, but apart from the MPPT solar controllers (which I installed myself) nothing else on the "charge bus" is fused (i.e. not the battery charger and not the output of the alternator). That's next on my list. I've got dielectric grease on the boat. Maybe it's time for it to come out of the tube and go onto the connections! I do have fuses on the sensing circuits in the battery compartment. One new thing for me to worry about! Btw -- Jeff Cote of Pacific Yacht Systems (the guy who puts out boat electric videos on youtube) advises against fusing the starter circuit. I believe this is because the starter draws so much that you would need a fuse so large that it's not practical. Just make sure there's a boot cap where the positive wire meets the starter. Maybe one day I'll stop worrying about my power plant and go sailing....
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Post by rxc on Nov 17, 2020 21:23:54 GMT
You should be worried about the fuses on the sensing circuits in the battery boxes. My first installation did that, because the xantrex manual said that the fuses should be as close as possible to the batteries. Two years after the installation, my wife was living on the boat in a marina in Baltimore while doing some work in the area, and she started to smell something strange, and the smoke detector started going off. She could not see any smoke or fire, but I made an emergency trip to the boat to see what was going on.
The four golf cart batteries in the box were boiling. The charger had lost contact with the sense lines, because the fuse holder had deteriorated, and went to full current charge. I turned off the charger, disconnected the charge wires, opened the box, and let everything cool down while she came home for a nite. I had to replace all the batteries and relocated the fuses just outside the boxes. I also replaced them with sealed units, in place of the cheap glass units I had installed. The smoke detector was seeing the vapor coming off of the boiling batteries. It could have been a very nasty, potentially deadly fire. I also replaced a similar fuse on the engine starting circuit when it failed and prevented me from starting the engine. I now buy only the best fuse holders I can find.
I also have a small computer fan exhausting the battery compartment on this boat, with a voltage sensing relay to turn it on whenever there is a charging voltage to the batteries. They are very useful for lots of applications.
I had similar concerns about the starting battery, but it was easy to add a fuse that could take the starting current (200 amps, I think). If one of those batteries shorts out, you will draw considerably more than the starting current, and it will make life very exciting.
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boris
New Member
Posts: 2
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Post by boris on Dec 6, 2021 9:33:58 GMT
Hi Eric, I have the same SO39i 2010 and have couple of questions. is it possible to get your personal e-mail to ask it ? Other point, how to get access to Jeanneau spare parts list ?
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Erik
Junior Member
Posts: 20
Jeanneau Model: Sun Odyssey 39i
Yacht Name: Miss Charlotte
Home Port: Port Washington, NY
Country: USA
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Post by Erik on Dec 6, 2021 13:42:21 GMT
Hi Boris -
If you let me know your email, I'll send you a message. As for the Jeanneau spares site, it seemed not to be working last month when I last tried it. Not sure what's going on. Maybe someone else knows?
Erik
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