Curious question/windless

[bratwurzt1]

Hello All,

Question on windless use. While at and anchorage over the weekend a couple used only the windless with no help from the engine to move forward and lift the chain and anchor. I realized a lot of people seem to do this but seems to cause stress on the windless. We always use our engine in slow forward to help reduce load. Wondering what other people do. Been awhile since I was on this site, hope all is well.
Cheers
Gary

[Charlie-Bravo]

Hi, I think it is all down to the conditions, if any wind over a light breeze is blowing the windlass will be grateful for the help of a bit of propeller power, if no wind the windlass should be quite capable of moving the boat toward the anchor, although in reality this should be done in short bursts, the windlass burst takes the curve out of the chain, the chain weight then drags the boat forward as it re curves, and repeating this ends up with you near the anchor, .......I suppose this wouldn't work if you use mostly a rope rode. 
Mostly I tickover forward a little, or sail off it.

CB

[alenka]

We nearly always use windlass.

A boat normally takes only a very little effort to move and even less effort to keep it moving.  If our windlass struggled to perform such a task then I would deem it unsuitable for the job of breaking an anchor out of heavy mud.

In fact we only ever use power when the anchor is well and truly stuck in mud, or on one occasion rocks, when a 360 manoeuvre was the only way of breaking it free.

[moonshadow]

I figure the windlass is designed to carry the chain and anchor weight. But I don’t use it to pull the boat. I will take up slack in the chain and the weight of chain will pull the boat forward. I wait until the boat moves toward to anchor and then take up more slack. Seems to work and never uses windlass yo pull the boat itself.

[alenka]

Actually, I should add that stern to (Med mooring) in the tight Greek harbours where it looks as though our chain is over another then we do you use a touch of power on leaving to minimise the chance of dragging our anchor onto the other chain. However if you do this at any speed then you will get verbal from other boats.

[bratwurzt1]

Thanks for the feedback, I’ll give it a slow go in no wind to try it out. Would reduce the amount of hand signals 😁

[Zanshin]

I think that moonshadow has it correct.

Since I singlehand my '57 I tend to go forward and use the windlass to pull up my chain (and pull the boat forward). Typically there will be some wind and waves, so I use a technique similar to reeling in a big fish... I will stop pulling when there's pressure on the chain but pull when there is slack.

I have had a couple of times where the anchor was set deep and hard and the straight-up pull tension of those times has been much more than I ever had while pulling the boat forward; I suppose the main difference there is pulling in 100ft of chain puts pressure on the electric motor for a longer period of time, which might cause it to heat up more than a lot of amps pulled in for just a short period when lifting the anchor from mud or sand.

[ianf]

I always have the engine running in neutral at about 1200 rpm when hauling anchor and, unless it is fouled on something nasty, I never have any problems.

[NZL50505]

There's a saying "Let the cat do the work" meaning the catenary. In other words the technique used by some here of using the windlass to the pull the chain tight then pausing whilst the weight of the chain falls back down into a catenary curve thereby pulling the boat forward. This can work OK but there can be times when you need to keep pulling in chain quickly and don't have time to pause.

I find motoring forward too much of a hassle because even at slow ahead I find the boat wants to go 2-2.5kts which is way too fast and I'll be running over the anchor. So I need to go back to neutral but then the revs are too low to provide full voltage to the windlass so I need to press the orange button and go back to fast idle... then I need to go back to neutral and start motoring forward again. And repeat. All way too fussy for me.

Hence the simple answer for me just run the engine at 1400rpm to provide full voltage and fit a bigger / overspec'd windlass (1600W) that has never be overworked pulling my 42DS even in fresh conditions.

[jy51]

The question here is, will pulling the boat along on the windlass cause undue stress on the windlass and its bearings.

I think the answer is yes but that doesn't necessary mean you need to engage an engine to pull up an anchor.  It depends on various factors including the technique you employ.

In heavy winds, it would be unwise to use the windlass alone and I assume everyone here, under those conditions would motor forward, holding the boat into the wind while pulling up the slack chain.

However, in very light winds, I would normally pull up enough of the slack chain scope so that the weight of the raised chain will start the boat moving forward, as the boat gains momentum I then take up more slack chain until the boat runs over the anchor and it trips.

The key point to mention is that in every case the chain is not being pulled up under tension and the windlass is just working to pull up the weight of slack chain. So this could be achieved with or without the use of motoring forward.

The only stress should be when the anchor leaves the sea bed and the windlass is pulling the combined weight of an anchor and several meters of chain.

On the other hand brute force, using the windlass to trip a stubborn anchor should never be used, regardless of wind strength the boats engine should be engaged to produce forward thrust to trip a stubborn anchor.

[alenka]

One very experienced sailor suggested to me that when ordering a new boat you should always specify a bigger anchor and windlass than the standard ex-factory fit as they tend to skimp on the tackle to keep costs down.  I don't know if that is true or not but some of the setups I have seen on other boats looks rather flimsy. 

I was also told by a mechanic that the motors in electric winches are the same as those used in Windlass and the former can certainly take an awful lot of strain without flinching.

[NZL50505]

Jun 26, 2020 12:54:31 GMT alenka said:

One very experienced sailor suggested to me that when ordering a new boat you should always specify a bigger anchor and windlass than the standard ex-factory fit as they tend to skimp on the tackle to keep costs down.  I don't know if that is true or not but some of the setups I have seen on other boats looks rather flimsy. 

I was also told by a mechanic that the motors in electric winches are the same as those used in Windlass and the former can certainly take an awful lot of strain without flinching.

That’s true. Jeanneau do it. They fit under spec Quick windlasses but then remove the gypsy and fit a bigger gypsy to make the windlass appear more powerful. That’s what happened with mine. I had original factory spec which was a gypsy typically found on a 1600W windlass fitted to a 1000W unit. I changed that.

[jy51]

Jun 26, 2020 12:54:31 GMT alenka said:

One very experienced sailor suggested to me that when ordering a new boat you should always specify a bigger anchor and windlass than the standard ex-factory fit as they tend to skimp on the tackle to keep costs down.  I don't know if that is true or not but some of the setups I have seen on other boats looks rather flimsy. 

I was also told by a mechanic that the motors in electric winches are the same as those used in Windlass and the former can certainly take an awful lot of strain without flinching.

Totally agree with you alenka.......but remember it's the bearings that take the strain and although they are designed for heavy use, they do wear.  

It's the same when anchored, most of us take the strain off the windlass by using a chain hook and rope secured to a cleat, which I believe is recommended by most windlass manufacturers.

Electric winches certainly can take a lot of strain, which I have discovered by a sheer act of folly!  The story is destined for the back pages of Yachting monthly confessions from the pulpit, if I can pluck up enough courage to tell all!

[chuckr]

Have ben doing this a long time.  If it is flat calm and no current and chain is straight down i will bring a bit of chain to almost tight and the stop and let the boat move forward and slowly take in chain at the speed of the boat and try not to put stress on the windlass. 

If the wind is blowing or a bad current or swells - i put the boat in fwd and get some slack in the chain and then once it is moving try to pick up chain at the speed of the boat.  But if needed will put in fwd for a few seconds to get slack and boat mvt against the wind. 

Just hauled anchor the other day in 20+k of wind and a big swell and a bit of a current - the windlass simply would not handle it so had to have in in fwd the full time as the boat danced a lot and it tood a lot of steering to keep the chain directly on the nose. 

I tend to try and stress the systems to much.