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Post by Gio on Sept 21, 2020 19:26:47 GMT
Finally I have been able to use the boat a bit lately, a bit of fishing but mainly cruising / sandbar. Boat is quite handy and great for family trips. Really versatile and a true SUV of the sea. When the weather is cooling down a bit I will do some more fishing and report back the maneuverability especially when alone. I also plan to upgrade the electric system and batteries, more to come soon. here some pictures of my boat in action while cruising at around 30mph:
here below in the dry stack facility: it is still manageable indoor!
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Post by thehammer on Sept 30, 2020 21:02:07 GMT
Hi,
First time post for me here ;-)
Nice boat and set-up.
I have recently ordered similar boat, with the twin F225 Yamaha (no other options since the importer is Yamaha)
I dont care to much about top speed, but when reading here I don't think I will have close to the top speed or economy you have. Cross my fingers.
Do you think Yamaha have spent time finding the right prop for the boat?
Anyway my first project is going to upgrade the electric system with upgrading new house batteries (200ah Lithium), install an Inverter (mostly for hot water here in the Arctic). And I will also build an Alarm/sensor system using RasPi, but have not made a detailed plan yet.
I noticed you also plan electric upgrade so paying close attention if you post anything.
My boat will arive in 20 weeks so have plenty of time thinking.
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Post by Gio on Oct 21, 2020 18:44:29 GMT
Hi, First time post for me here ;-) Nice boat and set-up. I have recently ordered similar boat, with the twin F225 Yamaha (no other options since the importer is Yamaha) I dont care to much about top speed, but when reading here I don't think I will have close to the top speed or economy you have. Cross my fingers. Do you think Yamaha have spent time finding the right prop for the boat? Anyway my first project is going to upgrade the electric system with upgrading new house batteries (200ah Lithium), install an Inverter (mostly for hot water here in the Arctic). And I will also build an Alarm/sensor system using RasPi, but have not made a detailed plan yet. I noticed you also plan electric upgrade so paying close attention if you post anything. My boat will arive in 20 weeks so have plenty of time thinking. Hi apologies for the late reply, i have been off from here for sometime. Re: yamaha performances - I think the numbers i see around with yamaha are not stellar, I guess they are all achieved with the official yamaha props, which I understand they have not the best variety. I would recommend to do a broader test using the mercury props too, they are widely used on yamaha engines with great results. Try the Enertia Eco, for your engine if I recall corectly a 15 or 17" pitch could work well. To be honest with you the merc v8 has impressed all of us with the performances, it has an impresive fuel economy and depending on the conditions I see 1.8-2.1 mpg at 3500rpm, 30mph cruise. I need to do another prop test for the sake of it, going down to 17" from 19, i may be a bit overpropped because i am not able to reach the 6200rpm (limiter). I will post some results. Re: electric upgrade - not done yet (covid restrictions and other delays) but it is really needed as the current config is litterlaly a disaster. I got the generic 1 engine start battery and 1 house+ engine, which is not appropriate for these modern engines. I will modify the system to have 2 separate engine starting batteries (AGM) and 1 large capacity house battery recharged with a separate inverter/charger. For the house bank i will get around 420Ah conventional for the time being, before committing a huge amount of money on lithium I want to test if the system is balanced and works well, especially running the A/C on batteries while cruising. I have the system ready but need to install it. I can post here the diagram when I am done.
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Post by nc on Oct 21, 2020 19:02:07 GMT
Hi, nice to read from you,especially when you write about props changes. Going from 19 to 17.....I know that you are equipped to get the data from the test. Are you going to try Revolution 4?
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Post by nc on Oct 21, 2020 19:09:07 GMT
About Yammy 225HP, I got the test data from Jeanneau, 200hp vs 225hp vs 250hp, 225hp is an improvement over the 200hp_ I4_ 2.8l, but with the 250 you should have able to cruise at 3500rpm....and has GIO wrote, Mercury V8 are outstanding in the 895 sport. Did you put Zipwake on it?
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Post by Gio on Oct 21, 2020 19:19:29 GMT
Hi, nice to read from you,especially when you write about props changes. Going from 19 to 17.....I know that you are equipped to get the data from the test. Are you going to try Revolution 4? I want to try to test a couple of prop config as I didnt have the change in April due to the limitations of Covid etc. We did the math on paper and we got the props I have now. So far they seems fine, but I still have the bug that i havent tried them extensively and the fact that i am not able to hit the top of the rpm range at 6200 make me have some doubts i am not in the sweet spot. I think to stick to the enertia eco, the rev 4 is not as efficient as the eco, it may have more bite for better hole shot but i am not able to understand what could be the advantage on a boat like ours. If i have the change i will try too.
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Post by nc on Oct 21, 2020 20:20:11 GMT
If you have or install Navionics on your phone/tablet, you will be able to share your runs with others like me 😉😉😉😉, on IOS device, you can play back the run with speed and displacement. If you have or install Mobil Vessel view on 1 engine, you will be able to get 0-20mph, 0-30mph.
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Post by thehammer on Oct 22, 2020 12:03:38 GMT
About Yammy 225HP, I got the test data from Jeanneau, 200hp vs 225hp vs 250hp, 225hp is an improvement over the 200hp_ I4_ 2.8l, but with the 250 you should have able to cruise at 3500rpm....and has GIO wrote, Mercury V8 are outstanding in the 895 sport. Did you put Zipwake on it? Hi NC, Don't know if this question was directed at me, however I will reply anyway. :-) Do you have those test files? I have seen some on 200 vs 250, but nothing for 225. I have collected all test data that I have found online, and the data looks like the bigger the engine, the worst the economy is getting (at the same Speed). Please see attached pictures of my Excel sheet. This contradicts most of the forum post that I have read (and also contradicts the sales pitch for a larger engine). Maybe it get better when the boat is loaded up with real-life use. With regards to Zipwake, I have gone with Lenco's. I was convinced to go this way because of a few reasons: The weather / wave heights/lengths here in west of Norway is bad and boats like this experience a lot of hull slamming 80% of the year. I will then be operating the vessel in the lowest planing speed possible (or even worse in "plow" speed), with the flaps all the way down forcing the nose down in to the water trying to reduce the slamming. The guys in the marina said the Zipwake did not work that good in low speed. Best Regards, T
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Post by thehammer on Oct 22, 2020 12:37:57 GMT
Hi, First time post for me here ;-) Nice boat and set-up. I have recently ordered similar boat, with the twin F225 Yamaha (no other options since the importer is Yamaha) I dont care to much about top speed, but when reading here I don't think I will have close to the top speed or economy you have. Cross my fingers. Do you think Yamaha have spent time finding the right prop for the boat? Anyway my first project is going to upgrade the electric system with upgrading new house batteries (200ah Lithium), install an Inverter (mostly for hot water here in the Arctic). And I will also build an Alarm/sensor system using RasPi, but have not made a detailed plan yet. I noticed you also plan electric upgrade so paying close attention if you post anything. My boat will arive in 20 weeks so have plenty of time thinking. Hi apologies for the late reply, i have been off from here for sometime. Re: yamaha performances - I think the numbers i see around with yamaha are not stellar, I guess they are all achieved with the official yamaha props, which I understand they have not the best variety. I would recommend to do a broader test using the mercury props too, they are widely used on yamaha engines with great results. Try the Enertia Eco, for your engine if I recall corectly a 15 or 17" pitch could work well. To be honest with you the merc v8 has impressed all of us with the performances, it has an impresive fuel economy and depending on the conditions I see 1.8-2.1 mpg at 3500rpm, 30mph cruise. I need to do another prop test for the sake of it, going down to 17" from 19, i may be a bit overpropped because i am not able to reach the 6200rpm (limiter). I will post some results. Re: electric upgrade - not done yet (covid restrictions and other delays) but it is really needed as the current config is litterlaly a disaster. I got the generic 1 engine start battery and 1 house+ engine, which is not appropriate for these modern engines. I will modify the system to have 2 separate engine starting batteries (AGM) and 1 large capacity house battery recharged with a separate inverter/charger. For the house bank i will get around 420Ah conventional for the time being, before committing a huge amount of money on lithium I want to test if the system is balanced and works well, especially running the A/C on batteries while cruising. I have the system ready but need to install it. I can post here the diagram when I am done. I would like to test a wide range of prop's, but I have not found anyone that don't charge full price of all tested props. Will continue to look tho, if there is a few % saving on cruise speed. Planning 100-200 hours of use per year with the Gas prices here in Norway (almost 7 USD per Gal) I could save some Cash. Re. Electrical; I have drafted a lithium schematics using Victron products, however the price tag is a bit to high so I will postpone Lithium a year while thinking. Will most likely add a 140 AGM to the "Starter/House" bank and add a Solar / MPPT to aid at anchor to cover me the first season. I am a novice, but this is the way I see the lithium problems; - Outboard Alternators don't like the current draw from the Lithium. They need to be protected to not be overloaded during charging. The Litium BMS can also shut down for a number of reasons, which can also cause damage on alternators and on boat electronics in general. Therefore I'm currently planning to use DC-DC chargers between Alternators/AGM and Lithium. - Lithium batteries need to be protected from Alternator over voltage, and they should not charge after full. DC-DC chargers also solves this problem. While on shore power I dont know if Cristec charger fully support Lithium, so reviewing the options of replacing the charger. In addition I need an inverter so looking at an Inverter / Charger that will only charge the Lithium, while keeping the Cristec charger for the AGM and thruster batteries. In addition since I'm a gadget guy, I'm looking at the Cerbo GX and a Smart Shunt to monitor it all. Also good since I can monitor while away. Boat will be on water throughout the winter (ice-free coast, but have from +5 to -15 C all winter), so need to make sure the heat and de-humidifier is on at all time. Looking forward to seeing your build when that time comes. Best Regards, T
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Post by nc on Oct 22, 2020 14:18:10 GMT
Hi thehammer, tough sea I your neighborhood, your right about Zipwake, normal setting are between 11kts and 48kts according to the user manual. So if run under 11kts, regular flat are the best choice. about data test from Jeanneau twin 200hp 15 Reliance sds(14.5*15), 6000rpm, 37.9kts, 152.2 l/h, 4500rpm, 25.7kts, 78.8 l/h; twin 225hp 15 Saltwater series 2 (15.75*15), 6000rpm, 40kts, 175.8 l/h, 4000rpm, 25.8kts, 86.6 l/h; twin 250hp 17 Saltwater series 2 ( 15.75*17) 6000rpm, 43.2kts, 196.2 l/h, 4000rpm, 30.1kts, 87.9l/h; From those data, you can estimate 25 kts at 3500rpm. About props, they switch to saltwater for the V6, from those data, we can see the prop’s diameter( 14.5 vs 15.75)effect on the prop’s slip or efficiency, 500rpm difference for the same speed. Those data confirms, bigger is better. There is a 16 saltwater series 2, if your travel light, it will improve the fuel efficiency by running at the same speed for a lower rpm
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Post by Gio on Oct 27, 2020 14:26:57 GMT
I would like to test a wide range of prop's, but I have not found anyone that don't charge full price of all tested props. Will continue to look tho, if there is a few % saving on cruise speed. Planning 100-200 hours of use per year with the Gas prices here in Norway (almost 7 USD per Gal) I could save some Cash. Re. Electrical; I have drafted a lithium schematics using Victron products, however the price tag is a bit to high so I will postpone Lithium a year while thinking. Will most likely add a 140 AGM to the "Starter/House" bank and add a Solar / MPPT to aid at anchor to cover me the first season. I am a novice, but this is the way I see the lithium problems; - Outboard Alternators don't like the current draw from the Lithium. They need to be protected to not be overloaded during charging. The Litium BMS can also shut down for a number of reasons, which can also cause damage on alternators and on boat electronics in general. Therefore I'm currently planning to use DC-DC chargers between Alternators/AGM and Lithium. - Lithium batteries need to be protected from Alternator over voltage, and they should not charge after full. DC-DC chargers also solves this problem. While on shore power I dont know if Cristec charger fully support Lithium, so reviewing the options of replacing the charger. In addition I need an inverter so looking at an Inverter / Charger that will only charge the Lithium, while keeping the Cristec charger for the AGM and thruster batteries. In addition since I'm a gadget guy, I'm looking at the Cerbo GX and a Smart Shunt to monitor it all. Also good since I can monitor while away. Boat will be on water throughout the winter (ice-free coast, but have from +5 to -15 C all winter), so need to make sure the heat and de-humidifier is on at all time. Looking forward to seeing your build when that time comes. Best Regards, T Re: electric update I am in the process to procure the various components and i should be able to do installation in a month or so. I decided for now not to install the lithium as i want to test the system before a commit to the huge budget required for the lihium battery. I have included a simplified schematics below with the main components. Regarding your concerns on the alternator and the amount of load required by the lithium battery, I can tell that there are installers in the US that are running a similar mastervolt system since many years with mercury verados and so far no issues of overload. Mastervolt lithium batteries have built in a very sophisticated bms and they are basically plug and play, and actually have the nmea2000 netowrk so you can see the battery data directly on your chartplotter. The only downside is the price which is huge. As you can see in the chart below, i have added a mastervolt inverter/charger nmea2000 so i can charge the house independently and then monitor the battery stats directly on chartplotter.
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Post by nc8954me on Dec 11, 2021 23:01:33 GMT
Hi Gio, where exactly did You place the inhull 2D transducer?? I am having problems to choose the best place because of sandwish laminate in the hull. I will put my 895 Marlin into water soon and maybe start to give information about Mercury V6, 175hp performance. Regards, Jens Hello, I am new here. Wondering if you had any more details about your Mercury V6, 175hp engines and the performance of your 895 Marlin. I am looking at purchasing the same configuration. Thanks!
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Post by retire2017 on Mar 2, 2022 9:11:19 GMT
Hi Gio, I am curious if your Mercury's, when tilted fully up, are the lower units fully out of the water? My Yamaha 250's on an 895 Sport when tilted fully up, leave the bottom portion of the lower unit in the water. Which creates a lot of problems. Thanks, Marty
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Post by Gio on Mar 4, 2022 15:19:25 GMT
Hi Gio, I am curious if your Mercury's, when tilted fully up, are the lower units fully out of the water? My Yamaha 250's on an 895 Sport when tilted fully up, leave the bottom portion of the lower unit in the water. Which creates a lot of problems. Thanks, Marty No, also my engines are touching the water (3-5 cm) when tilted up and without touching the cowl. I understand that the Mercury Verado V8, with its AMS, allows to lift more as the engine mount is more backward compared to mine. Not an issue for me as my boat is in a dry stack
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Post by morrisond on Aug 20, 2022 19:54:17 GMT
Hi Gio - how did the 17” Enertia Eco turn out?
I have an 895 Sport coming with twin 300 Yammies (I wanted Verados but none available) - and originally was going to put 250 Yammies on it and have 16.5 Enertia Eco’s for that set up. It sounds like 18.5 or 19’s might be the way to go with extra HP.
What do you think?
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Post by Gio on Aug 23, 2022 6:43:01 GMT
Hi Gio - how did the 17” Enertia Eco turn out? I have an 895 Sport coming with twin 300 Yammies (I wanted Verados but none available) - and originally was going to put 250 Yammies on it and have 16.5 Enertia Eco’s for that set up. It sounds like 18.5 or 19’s might be the way to go with extra HP. What do you think? I still have the 19" enertia eco, in the end they provide very good performances at cruising which i am fine with that. If i have the chance i will test the 17" and post here the results. I checked the new Yamaha 300, they have the same gear ratio than mine (1.75:1) so i would start from the 19" enertia eco. I also recommend to use the mercury prop selector tool (google it), you can select yamaha as manufacturer. I used this tool also in other boats and the results are very accurate btw good choice to install 300HP, this boat can hold this power no problem (weight on transom is the same than the 250 anyways). If i ever repower, i will put 300hp
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Post by morrisond on Aug 23, 2022 8:52:44 GMT
Thanks GIO.
Yes I just did the calculator and they are suggesting 18" ECO Enertia with 250 HP Yamaha's (No 300 HP) so 19" seems about perfect.
How much RPM are you getting at full throttle and how aggressively do you have to trim to get that?
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Post by Gio on Aug 23, 2022 14:54:15 GMT
Thanks GIO. Yes I just did the calculator and they are suggesting 18" ECO Enertia with 250 HP Yamaha's (No 300 HP) so 19" seems about perfect. How much RPM are you getting at full throttle and how aggressively do you have to trim to get that? With a 19" you should be ok for sure. If you have the chance do a prop test, try also the Rev4, then you decide which one is for you. In mine I see ~5500rpm, quite trimmed up I would say. Top speed 54-55mph. I think if I go down to a 17 or 18 i could gain a bit in terms of accelleration and bring the rpm closer to a more optimal peak but as I get a very good cruising speed (30 to 40mph range) I am not too keen to experiment now. Also to notice, at that top speed the boat has an accentuate porpoising that I can reduce a bit with the trim tabs. Not sure if this is the right hull for high speeds.
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