|
|
Post by NZL50505 on Mar 4, 2020 21:43:09 GMT
Not sure if this has already been discussed here? There was a more detailed article in recent Boating NZ magazine and it was sobering reading for Jeanneau owners. The rigging did fail below decks at one of those rods that we all have that transfers loads from the chainplate down to the hull. www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12241188 |
|
|
|
Post by NZL50505 on Mar 4, 2020 21:48:48 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by panoramix on Mar 4, 2020 22:47:47 GMT
I think the engineer put things in the right perspective:
>>>>Jim Glover, Process Engineer
I think it’s worth pointing out that there are hundreds of European production boats tackling bluewater passages all over the world at any given time. Also, this Jeanneau’s stainless steel rod failed in fairly modest conditions, suggesting that crevice corrosion might have been the actual cause – not the strength of the wind or state of the sea.
<<<<<
Corrosion (out of sight) can happen on every yacht. So not really a Jeanneau related thing.
|
|
|
|
Post by zaphod on Mar 6, 2020 3:44:32 GMT
I would be interested to see exactly what failed and where. I am also curious why they were unable to stabilize their mast. The rope they used broke? What kind of rope were they using that couldn't handle the loads of stabilizing a bare mast?
Unfortunately the article seems to have been written by someone with no knowledge of sailboats judging by the terminology they use.
Of course it is to be expected that some heavy cruiser snob would use the incident to denigrate all production boats. Rigging failures happen to all boats, not just production boats, and there is nothing to indicate that this particular failure was due to poor engineering or build quality.
|
|
|
|
Post by NZL50505 on Mar 6, 2020 22:18:31 GMT
If someone who can easily upload photos can PM their email I will send the pics of the article (which includes credits to the source at Boating NZ). I’ve searched their website but can’t see this particular article online. But I have it in photos. It’s a very interesting read written by the very experienced owner / skipper and explains everything being asked here.
|
|
|
|
Post by achosenman on Mar 17, 2020 9:39:30 GMT
Ignoring the very obvious axe to grind by the "heavy" cruiser I don't think I would really want to do extended blue water cruising in a Jeanneau.
They are a bit light in the build. Don't get me wrong, I love my SO 40.3 and she is good to go in anything a reasonable sailor wants to sail in and I've never been worried even when a gusting F9 turns up unexpectedly.
She is more than capable of extended offshore sailing, but some of the design aspects means she is a PITA when compared to others and that's where other boats start to make life easier and more comfortable.
|
|
|
|
Post by NZL50505 on Mar 17, 2020 23:55:21 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by blade on Mar 18, 2020 8:56:15 GMT
Not a nice experience but luckily a good outcome. Interesting that in 2017 they suffered a failure of the rudder stock, sounds exactly like the same problem Hilma Sailing suffered (check out their Youtube channel) and I think the same size boat. Wonder if the problem that caused the failure of the rudder stock could have contributed to the failure of the S/S connecting rod. The article doesn't mention how old the boat is, only that it was 3rd hand.
|
|
|
|
Post by achosenman on Mar 18, 2020 9:32:22 GMT
The failures indicate a lack of proper maintenance to me. The boat was used hard by the two previous owners it seems, but checks weren't done.
Every sailor knows rudders need dropping and inspecting routinely. The fact that a rudder drops off without a significant collision demonstrates the point. Indeed I'm in that very process now. This has resulted in splitting and re-building the rudder, including beefing it up. This is not cheep...better than losing the rudder though.
Without getting on a soap box, how many rig checks are done? By that I mean going aloft before any and all significant passages...from my observations it's almost never. Chain plates need inspecting too, especially on a new to you boat. If that means cutting an inspection hole to do so, get the multi tool out and get to work. Vitals hidden away by cabinetry is no excuse to not look.
From what I can tell, this episode seems more about chickens coming home to roost, rather than design inadequacies.
|
|
|
|
Post by johannes on Mar 18, 2020 13:35:43 GMT
The place where the rod broke where it attaches to the chainplate is not possible to inspect, as far as I understand. It is just below the upper surface of the deck, inside the sandwich laminate. Could be a manufacturing fault combined with corrosion.
In any case, rigging failures are not that uncommon on any type of boat, and I think the problem in this case was not just the rigging failure but that the jury rigging also failed. It seems they attached sheets to the shrouds and ran the sheets around the hull under the boat. Maybe that was all they could manage in the sea conditions, but I would have tried to do more to add redundancy to the jury rig. For example use all available extra halyards as shrouds.
|
|
pkempthorne
Junior Member
Posts: 22 
Jeanneau Model: SO379
Yacht Name: Roberta
Home Port: Waikawa
Country: New Zealand
|
Post by pkempthorne on Oct 27, 2020 22:20:36 GMT
I read he articles in Boating NZ. As mentioned, sobering reading. I have just had my rig inspected. SO379 built in 2015. The inspection found cracks in the gelcoat on the port side hump that is the chain plate connection to the hull. Grinding off the gelcoat revealed structural cracks full thickness in the fibre glass. The starboard side is OK. A repair is going to be made after consulting the engineers in Jeanneau in France. Fortunately the engineer in the boatyard in New Zealand is French so the conversations should be easy. I was wondering if any one else has seen such cracking.   |
|
|
|
Post by NZL50505 on Oct 28, 2020 5:05:28 GMT
Crikey! That’s a newish boat.
Is yours NZ-new or imported / sailed in?
It sounds like Jeanneau are not immune to defects either and it’s not as simple as saying “lack of maintenance.“ Maybe there’s more to it?
Which yard are you using btw?
|
|
|
|
Post by mikebz on Oct 28, 2020 10:48:14 GMT
"SS rod snapped within first thread of baseplate" - this description, and the photo to its right, makes it sound as though the rod was threaded into the baseplate. The photo shows rust around where the thread is, and on the left hand side the rust continues some distance into the rod which implies it had been cracked for some time? So maybe crevice corrosion is a possibility. Also movement in the baseplate (particularly a rocking motion) could 'work' the rod right at the end of the thread where it has apparently snapped. I would have thought a metallurgist could examine that break deduce what happened. I'm just curious to know how it all fits together and what might have caused the failure, not trying to pass judgement on the integrity of the design or anyone's maintenance/inspection regime. |
|
|
|
Post by johannes on Oct 28, 2020 15:07:53 GMT
On this note, there has been a Swedish television reality show this autumn with a bunch of celebrities crossing the Atlantic on a Swan 66 (Enigma VIII, www.charterindex.com/en/yachts/8087/enigma-viii-luxury-charter-yacht). The chainplate of their inner forestay broke during the crossing, due to corrosion, so apparently even a reputed yard like Nautor is not immune to this problem. |
|
|
|
Post by Charlie-Bravo on Oct 28, 2020 16:31:52 GMT
An interesting break, and as said a few times already likely to be crevice corrosion related.
In a past career I used to be a non destructive test inspector Rad. UT. Mag. Pen. and a destructive tester as well.
Another theory would be cracking induced from a notch property e,g a poor thread form with a sharp root, combined with tensile load and resonance from the rig.
And yet another, Stress corrosion, stress corrosion cracking is a form of corrosion , given an applied stress, and a corrosive environment can work together and cause complete failure of a component, when neither the stress nor the environment would be a problem on their own. The stress level may be very low, and the corrosion may be initiated at a microscopic crack tip that does not repassivate rapidly, as in crevice corrosion, Incremental crack growth may then occur, resulting in fracture of a component. stainless steels in saline environments have susceptibility to stress corrosion cracking, it is a source of failure, but not too common on boats.
Nothing likely to be found before it breaks, so just sail with fingers crossed .
Perhaps we need to go back to galvanised steel rigging and iron straps ....... and just keep fighting the rust !
CB
|
|
pkempthorne
Junior Member
Posts: 22
Jeanneau Model: SO379
Yacht Name: Roberta
Home Port: Waikawa
Country: New Zealand
|
Post by pkempthorne on Oct 28, 2020 17:52:59 GMT
Crikey! That’s a newish boat. Is yours NZ-new or imported / sailed in? It sounds like Jeanneau are not immune to defects either and it’s not as simple as saying “lack of maintenance.“ Maybe there’s more to it? Which yard are you using btw? Boat purchased new and delivered by ship. The yard who are doing the repair is Sounds Marine in Waikawa, Picton, New Zealand. |
|
|
|
Post by NZL50505 on Oct 28, 2020 20:30:44 GMT
Crikey! That’s a newish boat. Is yours NZ-new or imported / sailed in? It sounds like Jeanneau are not immune to defects either and it’s not as simple as saying “lack of maintenance.“ Maybe there’s more to it? Which yard are you using btw? Boat purchased new and delivered by ship. The yard who are doing the repair is Sounds Marine in Waikawa, Picton, New Zealand. Ok so unlike other incidents your boat hasn’t been pounding halfway around the world sailing from Europe to NZ - it’s been used locally for coastal cruising for only 5 yrs. The rigging should def not be failing in that case so that is concerning (for owners and a Jeanneau). Be interested to hear Jeanneau’s response / explanation / recommendation? |
|
pkempthorne
Junior Member
Posts: 22
Jeanneau Model: SO379
Yacht Name: Roberta
Home Port: Waikawa
Country: New Zealand
|
Post by pkempthorne on Feb 5, 2021 23:38:51 GMT
I read he articles in Boating NZ. As mentioned, sobering reading. I have just had my rig inspected. SO379 built in 2015. The inspection found cracks in the gelcoat on the port side hump that is the chain plate connection to the hull. Grinding off the gelcoat revealed structural cracks full thickness in the fibre glass. The starboard side is OK. A repair is going to be made after consulting the engineers in Jeanneau in France. Fortunately the engineer in the boatyard in New Zealand is French so the conversations should be easy. I was wondering if any one else has seen such cracking. Some of you may be wondering how the repair of my chain plate mounting finished up. In the end the boatyard did not consult Jeanneau because once they ground off the cap of the mounting hump in the hull things became more obvious. There were three issues: One was the fibreglass structure itself and two related to the rigging. When the top was ground off it revealed a large void in the fibreglass. This was repaired by filling the void and then relaying the cap over the top. The angle of the pull of the rod that goes up to the deck was 15 degrees out in its alignment to the underside of the hump on the hull. This meant that the rigger could get a finger between the fibreglass and the nut on one side of the rod and the opposite side was digging into the fibreglass. So in other words it was severely point loading. What is worse is that that point loading was directly over the void. This angle was corrected with a 15 degree shim. There was no large washer to spread the load on the fibreglass adding to the point loading issue. A 35mm wide 6mm washer was placed between the shim and the fibreglass. The rigging angle error and lack of washer was the same on the port side and was corrected in the same way. It was elected not to grind the fibreglass on this side since there was no evidence of damage. The company I purchased the boat from new are taking the matter up with Jeanneau on my behalf. As usual with these things the boat is just a short time over its five year warranty period. I think this is a manufacturing fault and should be considered independent of the warranty but we will just have to wait and see. These images show the void ground out, the filled void and the final result. ![]() The void  The void after filling  The final result  ![]() ![]() ![]() |
|
|
|
Post by fimacca on Feb 6, 2021 8:39:47 GMT
Great post. I will, and sure many of us will be, checking this area closely for any signs (what a god send an iPhone is - as you can zoom and photo underneath dark areas!) and under load as well when stresses are up on the rig.
|
|
pkempthorne
Junior Member
Posts: 22
Jeanneau Model: SO379
Yacht Name: Roberta
Home Port: Waikawa
Country: New Zealand
|
Post by pkempthorne on Sept 5, 2021 3:46:12 GMT
Crikey! That’s a newish boat. Is yours NZ-new or imported / sailed in? It sounds like Jeanneau are not immune to defects either and it’s not as simple as saying “lack of maintenance.“ Maybe there’s more to it? Which yard are you using btw? Boat purchased new and delivered by ship. The yard who are doing the repair is Sounds Marine in Waikawa, Picton, New Zealand. |
|
pkempthorne
Junior Member
Posts: 22
Jeanneau Model: SO379
Yacht Name: Roberta
Home Port: Waikawa
Country: New Zealand
|
Post by pkempthorne on Sept 5, 2021 3:49:43 GMT
It is quite some time since I posted about my rigging failure due to a void in the fibreglass and an incorrect angle in the rig. I thought you might all be pleased to know that after a bit of a delay Jeanneau came through and contributed to the cost of the repair even though it was outside the hull warrantee period. So all good now and some relaxed sailing knowing I now have the strongest rig of any Jeanneau 379.
|
|
|
|
Post by MalcolmP on Sept 5, 2021 7:15:43 GMT
It is quite some time since I posted about my rigging failure due to a void in the fibreglass and an incorrect angle in the rig. I thought you might all be pleased to know that after a bit of a delay Jeanneau came through and contributed to the cost of the repair even though it was outside the hull warrantee period. So all good now and some relaxed sailing knowing I now have the strongest rig of any Jeanneau 379. Glad you got it all sorted |
|
