VickeyS
New Member
Posts: 8
Jeanneau Model: NC 895 Sport
Yacht Name: Heart’s Delight
Home Port: Dunedin, FL
Country: USA
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Post by VickeyS on Dec 13, 2019 13:40:47 GMT
Hello all,
I take delivery on a new NC 895 Sport in January down in Florida, famous for its sunny skies, heat, humidity and bugs 😎. So far, I have only a shore power connector to run the AC. That’s fine for staying at marinas but if I want to anchor out at one of our amazingly beautiful barrier islands or in the Everglades for example, I will need a power solution that can run the AC over night. I have a quote to install a 3.5 kW generator ($19k!). Seems like a lot since I will mainly be day boating. Another option would be an inverter to use battery power (currently one house, one starter). I have been told that the dual Yamaha 250’s do charge the batteries while underway and can start my trips fully charged as my home slip has power. There is a nice rack on the cabin that holds potential for solar panels too. I should mention that this is my first boat, I am not terribly handy and still have a rudimentary knowledge of electrical systems.
My questions are - would I need more batteries to power the AC with an inverter? Is there any hope for being able to mount enough solar to recharge the batteries as fast as the AC draws? Or should I just follow the norm and get the generator?
Many thanks in advance for your thoughts!
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Post by Tafika II on Dec 13, 2019 17:14:56 GMT
We have a Mastervolt 3.5 which we run heat & AC from two units, but I cannot run off the solar or wind. I think you might need to switch to Lithium batteries and a large invertor pending the draw of the AC. You may also need to consider a booster to start up the AC as that can be a problem. $19K for the genset seems a bit excessive.
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Post by rene460 on Dec 15, 2019 11:15:38 GMT
Hi VickeyS,
I suspect you will find it quite difficult to find space for enough solar panels even with a wind generator as well, and some very large batteries to provide sufficient power for A/C. It will most likely require a generator to provide the required power, and to store sufficient energy for overnight.
You need to do some calculations on the load. Remember that the current drawn from a 12 V battery is very high to provide the same power as provided by your 240 or even 110 volt mains system.
If you trawl through some of the older threads on general topics, you will find a few threads on the subject that will help you up the learning curve.
I don’t know what you will need to pay for a generator, but there are also threads on installing a generator which you will find worth reading. There may be other units which would do the job at a lower price than you have suggested. But I understand the need for A/C in your summer. It may be worth considering whether a good refrigerated dehumidifier would provide an adequate level of comfort with considerably less power draw, this may allow you to get away with a smaller portable generator.
rene460
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Post by paul075f200 on Jul 7, 2020 14:51:00 GMT
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Post by westboating on Jul 10, 2020 5:14:56 GMT
Vickey,
Batteries have come a long way and I've seen some cool applications on the water such as an electric sailing cat with only one diesel genset. The problem is weight and space (and since it's boating cost).
I'm guessing you'd want roughly 10,000 BTUs give or take for the sport. A 115v AC unit would need at least 850 Watts. Let's say you want to run the A/C for 10 hours of good 'ole sleep in the summer in FL. (Forgive me, but I was an ME in college not an EE), but; 10 hrs x 850 Watts/12 volts = 708 Amp/hrs. Considering you should not drain your deep cycle batteries to 0%, let's say you need 1200 Amp/hrs to be safe. West marine (not the cheapest option) has a big 245 amp/hr deep cycle for only $890. You'll need 5 of those (805lbs and 7 cubic ft of boat space) plus an inverter (40lbs) to handle them and 60 lbs of A/C. I've got an 895 and I think that would take up every bit of storage on our boat. Ive not heard of anyone trying this.
As for charging, your 2 x 200 hp outboards will take 7 ish hours to replenish that discharge, or 24 hours on the ships battery charger. If you clad the entire roof with solar you're looking at close to 1500 watts at 12 v and kicking out 85 amps (~$12,000) which would take 9 hours to recharge.
$7K gets you a 160 lb 3.5 next gen (next generation power engineering) that'll use about 2/10ths of a gallon of diesel and run that A/C while microwaving popcorn and maybe even heating the water, well probably one of those two. So $17K in panels, batteries, and an inverter to get a 850lb set up, or $7K for a diesel option. Note 1. I'm not an electrical engineer, Note 2. I used prices from West marine and did not shop around, and finally Note 3. I have no idea on installation costs.
Cool idea, but not light weight or inexpensive
P.S. Cheater option, get the A/C installed and then buy a 2 Kw camping gas generator for ~$850 and connect it through the shore power. I know a captain who made that work on a Hunter 33 for overnights. Don't put it below deck and keep the salt off of it and you're GTG, shore power A/C or the cheater.
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Post by captaintheo on Jul 11, 2020 11:36:27 GMT
I’m buying a new NC895 and I noticed a charge from the factory of $23,000 for the Generator.....sounds like if you can get it done for $19K it’s a deal
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Post by agustinmiami on Sept 18, 2020 1:47:21 GMT
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charlies
Junior Member
Posts: 15
Jeanneau Model: NC 795
Home Port: Delaware, Marina at Pepper's Creek
Country: USA
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Post by charlies on Sept 18, 2020 16:13:59 GMT
I don't see how you can obtain your needs without a generator.
I'm getting the Weekender 795 with A/C and lithium batteries. I've asked around and have been told the batteries provide 5 to 8 hours during day when it is hot. Then at night solar panels will not provide battery charging: No A/C for me.
Maybe you like to tinker or have after market items added. There is nothing wrong with that and I hope you have fun. I'm not so handy. I think you are asking for suggestions: In my experience, leave the generator (and all electrical) to the builder and enhance other stuff. Plus, you can fully enjoy your 895 from day 1.
If A/C = happy wife for you then remember, happy wife = happy life.
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Post by nc on Sept 18, 2020 20:11:11 GMT
Hi The test numbers from Dometic for DTU16_16000BTU at 112V are 10A for cooling and 11A for heating. Honda 2200ei is rated 15A running/18A start The soft start is acting at start only, so there is a need for that with the Honda? Is it needed with the Generac 3000?
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Post by Gio on Sept 21, 2020 19:09:12 GMT
In my 895 sport/Marlin, which has a 16,000 btu a/c i am using a portable Honda EU22i and it works like a charm. I have used quite a lot lately while cruising and at the anchor, no issue whatever. I haven't even installed a soft starter, the engine just surge for less than one second when the a/c pump kicks in, but then i can put in echo mode and i am set for 4 hours at least with a fuel tank. below an example where you can keep - just as a reminder, it is a paramount that you use a CO alarm inside the cabin for safety reasons.
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Post by nc on Sept 22, 2020 0:05:50 GMT
Glad to read it, it is in target with test numbers from Dometic.....and even better if it run in Eco mode, Honda 2200i is the quieter of them all in Eco mode.
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Post by nc on Sept 22, 2020 0:43:25 GMT
Honda eu22i is a 220V_50Hz, 1.8kVA/2.2kVA, 8 to 10A at 50Hz. Do you have the Dometic test data attached to the AC? Now NC895sport Domestic AC turn on 120V_60Hz. Honda for US market is EU2200i is 15A at 120V at 60Hz, it is similar to 1.8kVA at 60Hz
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Post by Gio on Oct 21, 2020 19:11:30 GMT
Honda eu22i is a 220V_50Hz, 1.8kVA/2.2kVA, 8 to 10A at 50Hz. Do you have the Dometic test data attached to the AC? Now NC895sport Domestic AC turn on 120V_60Hz. Honda for US market is EU2200i is 15A at 120V at 60Hz, it is similar to 1.8kVA at 60Hz See attached, you should be able to make the math and compare to the NA models.
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Post by nc on Nov 23, 2020 15:21:52 GMT
Do you have a nc895sport ?
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Post by bluedart on Nov 23, 2020 16:56:50 GMT
i think we all know that a honda generator is not a good idea. saves some money but it is a portable air cooled generator. It does not belong on a boat.
Carrying a separate gas tank without ventilation and pumping CO on the aft deck is crazy. call your insurance agent and ask if you have this generator on your aft platform if they will cover.
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Post by rainmaker2 on Jan 18, 2021 21:17:58 GMT
Looking at Gio pic of his honda invertor on starboard aft platform. I plan to do the same but with a Westinghouse DF 4500 invertor It is larger and wider 17.5 inch but should just fit in that area. This unit has nice features such as dual fuel gas propane also quiet long run time key fob for electric start/ off from cabin, It is heavy at 96 ibs but the cost is half the price of the honda, Good reviews, Plan on at least 3 carbon monoxide and smoke detectors for the cabins
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Post by Gio on Jan 19, 2021 5:55:29 GMT
Looking at Gio pic of his honda invertor on starboard aft platform. I plan to do the same but with a Westinghouse DF 4500 invertor It is larger and wider 17.5 inch but should just fit in that area. This unit has nice features such as dual fuel gas propane also quiet long run time key fob for electric start/ off from cabin, It is heavy at 96 ibs but the cost is half the price of the honda, Good reviews, Plan on at least 3 carbon monoxide and smoke detectors for the cabins It looks like a nice generator, the honda was the only option available where i live. Be sure you measure the size of the generator properly, the space there is tiny, and you need some clearance on both sides. The other option, when stationary, is to put the generator in the swim platform, there you have a better set-up for longer term generation. btw I have almost completed the installation of the inverter/charger with battery to run the A/C when cruising without a generation, i will report once i have tested it properly. Last comment: someone above says that the portable generator solution is wrong....I disagree entirely. Unless you plan to do many trips i.e. live aboard and run the A/C constantly when stationary offshore, the on board generator does not make any sense. It is really up to your usage, for me, it may happen 4-5 times per year where, during the hot summer, I stop the boat for more than 3 hours in a location without power. While you are fishing, you cannot use the A/C as you need to pilot the boat and have the cabin open, only when you cruise you need it and for this purpose an inverter/charger is enough (proven installation by many boaters). For such scarce usage, does not make sense to spend 25,000+ dollars in a generator and bring on board 120-150kg of dead weight each time in such small boat.... Also, my recommendation is always install CO sensors, as outboards are the biggest generator of CO. Boats with cabins when moving tend to accumulate CO and fumes inside depending on the way the wind blows. I have digital CO gauges and I can see often high CO levels inside the cabin when i am under way, requiring immediate aeration etc.
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Post by Gio on Mar 21, 2021 9:53:20 GMT
Finally I have upgraded the electric system in the 895 Sport/Marlin and completed the installation of the inverter/charger unit and relevant equipment to monitor the system.
I am very pleased to report that it is now a "different" boat altogether and the AirCon can be run continuously when the outboards are running with no discharge of the house battery.
I will make a separate post for this, but so far the system works well, has been tested extensively by many other boaters and is a proof that technology available today makes this possible. And by the way, this is achieved without installing a lithium battery bank, only useful if you plan to stay stationary for few hours with engines off.
I will test extensively over the summer.
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bradh
New Member
Posts: 2
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Post by bradh on Apr 1, 2021 16:44:57 GMT
Hi Gio,
I look forward to the updates. I am looking at purchasing an NC795 and I am very interested in having AC while under way. I just think I will use the boat a lot more.
If you don't mind me asking, what is the general price range is for this type of installation?
Thanks
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Post by Gio on Apr 2, 2021 19:07:46 GMT
Hi Gio, I look forward to the updates. I am looking at purchasing an NC795 and I am very interested in having AC while under way. I just think I will use the boat a lot more. If you don't mind me asking, what is the general price range is for this type of installation? Thanks I see in the option list of your boat that now they offer 12V 8000 but A/C running out of lithium batteries, I think you should check this with your dealer. If I recall correctly and depending on the A/C unit make, it should draw around 30-40Ah so a manageable amount. Be sure that you install an engine that provide enough Ah from the alternator, I see that the new Yamaha 250 gives 70Ah, but I would consider for your application a mercury V8, the Verado 250 has 115Ah output which is really great for such energy hungry applications. My system is different, I have a 16,000 btu A/C unit, 220v AC, so I have installed a inverter charger that convert the current from the alternators. My boat requires 100Ah (for the A/C + boat electronics) and for such requirement you need 2 engines, mine produce 170Ah and are enough to run the system with some margin left. My system (inverter charger, master shunt, battery separators, + cables, all mastervolt) costed around 2000 USD, excluding installation. The system runs relatively well with the normal flooded batteries, but ideally I should add a lithium and this add another 2500-3000 USD for a decent size battery (~300 Ah) Hope this helps
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bradh
New Member
Posts: 2
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Post by bradh on Apr 3, 2021 12:42:52 GMT
Thanks so much for getting back with this information Gio. This isn't inexpensive but compared to what I was looking at about 2 years ago its not bad. Also you mentioned the 2 engines giving more power and that was also an issue with the tech that was looking at installing AC. I am going to check on the cost of the AC on a new boat and compare that with installing something on my own. I lean towards having something from the factory because they have worked the bugs out, but also don't want to pay $10,000 to $15,000 more.
Thanks for your help.
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Post by Gio on Apr 4, 2021 9:41:57 GMT
Thanks so much for getting back with this information Gio. This isn't inexpensive but compared to what I was looking at about 2 years ago its not bad. Also you mentioned the 2 engines giving more power and that was also an issue with the tech that was looking at installing AC. I am going to check on the cost of the AC on a new boat and compare that with installing something on my own. I lean towards having something from the factory because they have worked the bugs out, but also don't want to pay $10,000 to $15,000 more. Thanks for your help. I recommend to have the AirCon system factory installed, it is a complex job and better to be done by the manufacturer. You will have most likely a Dometic 8000 btu installed, and shore power system. At this point is very easy to retrofit a inverter/charger to run the AirCon while underway, even a DYI if you have some skills. With the config above, i am 100% certain you can run with 1 engine, I strongly recommend a Mercury verado V8 as it has a output ov 115Ah more than enough for this application. The price of my installation is top of spec, all digital and connected to the chart plotter, so it is a bit expensive. you can save a bit if you go analogic. The beauty of being digital is that you can see any data on your screen:
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Post by nc on Apr 13, 2021 2:53:23 GMT
Hi VickeyS Is your NC895 SPORT is 2021? Is it possible for you to take a picture of the boat's name plate?
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Post by edem on Sept 28, 2023 4:31:09 GMT
Looking at Gio pic of his honda invertor on starboard aft platform. I plan to do the same but with a Westinghouse DF 4500 invertor It is larger and wider 17.5 inch but should just fit in that area. This unit has nice features such as dual fuel gas propane also quiet long run time key fob for electric start/ off from cabin, It is heavy at 96 ibs but the cost is half the price of the honda, Good reviews, Plan on at least 3 carbon monoxide and smoke detectors for the cabins It looks like a nice generator, the honda was the only option available where i live. Be sure you measure the size of the generator properly, the space there is tiny, and you need some clearance on both sides. The other option, when stationary, is to put the generator in the swim platform, there you have a better set-up for longer term generation. btw I have almost completed the installation of the inverter/charger with battery to run the A/C when cruising without a generation, i will report once i have tested it properly. Last comment: someone above says that the portable generator solution is wrong....I disagree entirely. Unless you plan to do many trips i.e. live aboard and run the A/C constantly when stationary offshore, the on board generator does not make any sense. It is really up to your usage, for me, it may happen 4-5 times per year where, during the hot summer, I stop the boat for more than 3 hours in a location without power. While you are fishing, you cannot use the A/C as you need to pilot the boat and have the cabin open, only when you cruise you need it and for this purpose an inverter/charger is enough (proven installation by many boaters). For such scarce usage, does not make sense to spend 25,000+ dollars in a generator and bring on board 120-150kg of dead weight each time in such small boat.... Also, my recommendation is always install CO sensors, as outboards are the biggest generator of CO. Boats with cabins when moving tend to accumulate CO and fumes inside depending on the way the wind blows. I have digital CO gauges and I can see often high CO levels inside the cabin when i am under way, requiring immediate aeration etc. I am new to the site and just purchased a new NC895 weekender GIO Please let us know when you do the inverter-charger /battery / solar upgrade. I plan to do the same with my 2023 - NC 895. I also have an AC and electric range but no Genset and would love to be able to do most of my electrical work when not on shore power. When needing to have AC I will likely use my Honda 2200 when not connected to shore power. I am planning to add solar, a larger lithium house battery and inverter / charger. Any help you can offer for getting to my goal will be greatly appreciated . Looking forward to see your journey as well.
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Post by lynnardm on Sept 28, 2023 19:45:38 GMT
H Edem
I did an update on my 2019 895 last winter. Dc-Dc charger, Dc-Ac inverter, lithium house battery, solar panel. It works great! A Very worthwhile investment. I can share some Info if it would be helpful.
Capt’n Lynn
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