39i Water in between hull and liner??

[blackpearl]

I have a 2009 39i and i was working in the compartment which contains raw water intake thru hull and unexpectedly found that there was water between the top skin of this compartment and the hull.  It appears that this is sealed on all sides, but i'm not sure?  I am sure that there shouldn't be any water in there! Has anyone experienced this? Should i drill a hole and remove the water? for background: We just completed a haulout and complete thru hull replacement with true seacocks, barrier coat and bottom paint so i'm fairly certain i don't have any bottom issues. We don't have any active water leaks as the bilge remains dry.  I did have a holding tank leak issue recently that required me to spray some water into the adjacent port side compartment but used a shopvac to remove the water.  I'm not sure that's relevant, but that's the only significant water that has been introduced recently into the bilge. If anyone has experience with this, your input would be greatly appreciated. John F


www.23hq.com/blackpearl/photo/62569664/original

[zaphod]

I am curious how do you know there is water under the liner?

[ania]

Same thing on our Jeanneau 51. We drilled a hole and used shopvac to suck water out

[blackpearl]

Nov 24, 2019 17:54:14 GMT zaphod said:

I am curious how do you know there is water under the liner?

I was working in the boat with the floorboard removed and inadvertently stepped into the compartment. I could hear the water move around as it was squeezed by the thin top skin. reminded me of the old water bed! I was a little surprised to say the least. I've included a video

[zaphod]

That is strange. The question is, how did it get there? That would be the most important thing. It likely came from your water tank repair. On my boat there are limber holes through the structural girders to allow water to find it's way out of the various compartments to the bilge. I can see bare hull through those holes, so if the liner wasn't bonded to the hull in those spots the water could get between the hull and the liner.

My gut says it probably isn't a big problem, but fixing it shouldn't be too hard. I would drill a few holes through the skin in the affected area, and use a shop vac to suck the moisture out. Once it is dry you could use a syringe to inject resin to fill the void, similar to the procedure for repairing delaminated decks.

[rc sail]

If the area under the compartment is not fully grided (not all four sides) you may have some success running hose or
flexible tubing down the side of the hull, behind the settee, and than a vacuum or pump at end of hose tube to suck
water out.

[John]

Nov 23, 2019 22:49:43 GMT blackpearl said:

I have a 2009 39i and i was working in the compartment which contains raw water intake thru hull and unexpectedly found that there was water between the top skin of this compartment and the hull.  It appears that this is sealed on all sides, but i'm not sure?  I am sure that there shouldn't be any water in there! Has anyone experienced this? Should i drill a hole and remove the water? for background: We just completed a haulout and complete thru hull replacement with true seacocks, barrier coat and bottom paint so i'm fairly certain i don't have any bottom issues. We don't have any active water leaks as the bilge remains dry.  I did have a holding tank leak issue recently that required me to spray some water into the adjacent port side compartment but used a shopvac to remove the water.  I'm not sure that's relevant, but that's the only significant water that has been introduced recently into the bilge. If anyone has experience with this, your input would be greatly appreciated. John F

I wonder could it just be condensation .

[zaphod]

Nov 28, 2019 14:37:23 GMT John said:

Nov 23, 2019 22:49:43 GMT blackpearl said:

I have a 2009 39i and i was working in the compartment which contains raw water intake thru hull and unexpectedly found that there was water between the top skin of this compartment and the hull.  It appears that this is sealed on all sides, but i'm not sure?  I am sure that there shouldn't be any water in there! Has anyone experienced this? Should i drill a hole and remove the water? for background: We just completed a haulout and complete thru hull replacement with true seacocks, barrier coat and bottom paint so i'm fairly certain i don't have any bottom issues. We don't have any active water leaks as the bilge remains dry.  I did have a holding tank leak issue recently that required me to spray some water into the adjacent port side compartment but used a shopvac to remove the water.  I'm not sure that's relevant, but that's the only significant water that has been introduced recently into the bilge. If anyone has experience with this, your input would be greatly appreciated. John F
www.23hq.com/blackpearl/photo/62569664/original

I wonder could it just be condensation .

How would moist air get in there to condense if it is sealed? There must be a gap in the glue somewhere to let it in.

[johannes]

Small amounts of air can diffuse through plastic over time. If it is a sealed compartment that is usually colder than the surroundings, humidity in the air will condense. The process is very slow, but over decades can lead to significant amounts of water. That's why there should normally always be a a drain hole at the lowest point in any closed plastic compartment.

[laszlo]

Dear All,


I have the same problem , Want to drill the hole as well ? 

Where do you recomend the drill the hole ? is not a danger to damage the HULL?


What is the distnace between the Hull and Liner ?   ( 1 / 2 cm) ?

[laszlo]

If some has any technic or the way to get the water out   ( SO 39I 2009) .  would be gr8 to listen ,

The water stacked and not go out even on strong winds . the Bilge is dry .. but when I move the liner few sections feel there is water below ( like a water bed) very frustrating ..  

Thanks for all your comments in advance . 

[zaphod]

It seems to me that if that liner skin is not glued to the hull it does not serve any structural purpose. I would consider cutting away the skin between the structural grid, leaving a few inches of flange all around. I would then fiberglass the flanges directly to the hull. This would eliminate the water trap problem, and strengthen the area as a bonus.

On larger models they cut out all of the areas between the structural grid and glass the grid to the hull in the same way. I suspect the only reason they don't do that on the smaller models is economics.

One of the big criticisms of the glued hull liners is that you can't see if that structure has been compromised after an impact. Removing the skin between the structural areas eliminates that problem.

[Charlie-Bravo]

Hi Blackpearl, and Lazsio, seems you have a very nice clean waterproof bucket, and a shame to drill a hole in the bottom of it, and will work well to collect the water when you clean out the filter. how about drilling an 8 to 10mm hole through the horizontal top flange close to the radius of the corner, this might allow a tube to be fed to the water to be sucked out, and provide a bit of a breather to the area ( all be it a bit small ) .
Just another comment, it is generally good practice to use 2 pipe clips on all below waterline hose joints ..... and most yachts locate their raw water filter above the waterline, not a criticism , not being clever, just thought you might consider some more clips.
Good luck sucking water
CB

[laszlo]

May 8, 2020 7:59:57 GMT Charlie-Bravo said:

Hi Blackpearl, and Lazsio, seems you have a very nice clean waterproof bucket, and a shame to drill a hole in the bottom of it, and will work well to collect the water when you clean out the filter. how about drilling an 8 to 10mm hole through the horizontal top flange close to the radius of the corner, this might allow a tube to be fed to the water to be sucked out, and provide a bit of a breather to the area ( all be it a bit small ) .
Just another comment, it is generally good practice to use 2 pipe clips on all below waterline hose joints ..... and most yachts locate their raw water filter above the waterline, not a criticism , not being clever, just thought you might consider some more clips.
Good luck sucking water
CB

Thanks for your very kind answer - Charlie  I would send few pictures of the areas and If you guys can allocate where I can really drill and where not , would help  a lot .. Any email adress may be you can send me on [e-mail] - I do really want drill a hole on hull and sink the boat .... 

[laszlo]

Thanks for your very kind answer - Charlie I would send few pictures of the areas and If you guys can allocate where I can really drill and where not , would help a lot .. Any email adress may be you can send me on [e-mail] - I do really want drill a hole on hull and sink the boat ....

[Charlie-Bravo]

You can post your pictures here, and there is advice on how to do that from the administrators on this forum
press 'boards' on the menu and then 'use of forum' ..... all sound advice, and pictures tell a thousand words.
CB

[MalcolmP]

May 28, 2020 8:45:10 GMT Charlie-Bravo said:

You can post your pictures here, and there is advice on how to do that from the administrators on this forum
press 'boards' on the menu and then 'use of forum' ..... all sound advice, and pictures tell a thousand words.
CB

Thanks CB

The link is: jeanneau.proboards.com/thread/8029/revised-guidance-photo-uploads-forum

or you can add up to 3 if you click the add attachment button top right.

[flalik]

Hello blackpearl,

I'm a new member.

I have a few queries about this topic:

• were you able to remove the water?
  
• If so, how did you do it?
  
• Did you find out where the water came from?

Any info on this would be greatly appreciated.

[Merging Waters]

I have the same problem with my new to me 2014 DS with water under the liner below in the large compartment at the base of the companion way. What did you end up doing?

[dbostrom]

Bearing Charlie-Bravo's remarks in mind, one thing I like about that strainer arrangement: salt water not dripping anywhere near the nice non-rusty engine. 

I like Zaphod's idea. Not only as a remedy for the immediate problem at hand but also for the other reasons mentioned. As well, there would be a bit more headroom for stuffing in more bottles of wine. 

Now I'm not sure whether to avoid stepping in this area and thus remain in blissful ignorance, or just grab a saw and start going all Zaphod on it.

Does anybody know whether there's any wood involved in the frames/girders of these boats? I've drilled into a floor and it seemed to be solid FRP but this entire thread makes me wonder about wood down in this area, what will happen if it's not fully encapsulated. 

[deepblue]

Hi there,

have 42i not mutch different than yours.

Had the yard replace the toilet inlet valve in the aft bathroom. Bloke partially cut the hose resulting in persistant leak.

The water reached from probably under the bathroom floor the space below the drybilge. Same waterbed effect.

Afterleak was repaired the bilge pump removed all the water in a few days sailing. I think that the dryspace together with enginebilge are the only dry ones. The rest is interconnected.

Because of the persistent salt residue that resulted in having a moist atmosphere in the boat we pumped a lot of drinkingwater in the bilge while pumping it. Took a few more weeks to get back to normal.

The yard said sorry and send the normal high invoice.

[dbostrom]

Jan 25, 2021 11:31:27 GMT deepblue said:

Because of the persistent salt residue that resulted in having a moist atmosphere in the boat we pumped a lot of drinkingwater in the bilge while pumping it. Took a few more weeks to get back to normal.

Along those lines, a couple of years ago we had a raw water sea water line partially pop off the pump, still providing enough flow to keep the engine cool but also pumping the boat full of sea water.

This went undetected until the fellow at the fuel dock asked the crew "why is all that water coming out of the back of your boat?" That was the secondary bilge pump running to keep up with the engine, the primary (useless as others have pointed out and since replaced) having having jammed a valve (the valves are extra tragic) on a tiny bit of debris.

The crew on board at the time had managed to find the bilge alarm control and turn it off, for whatever reason (that's no longer an option). 

Quite a flood although it never reached anything sensitive.

We filled the floors a couple of times with fresh, to get rid of salt. Fringe benefit: The boat smelled better than ever when the whole procedure was finished. 

Incidentally, the amount of construction debris apparently left within the voids of the frames and swept into view by this incident was quite impressive. Screen bilge pumps with big high surface area screens, that's another lesson learned. 



. 

[sailingabe41ds]

Jan 24, 2021 1:19:02 GMT Merging Waters said:

I have the same problem with my new to me 2014 DS with water under the liner below in the large compartment at the base of the companion way. What did you end up doing?

Oh no! I have a 2015 DS....isn't there any openings that drain from there into the bilge compartment? Also, how did you find out there was water under there?

Abe

[zaphod]

I was down at my boat this evening so I thought I would have a look at the area in question. I tapped on the bottom of the compartment and it definitely sounds hollow. I definitely think that if I discovered water was trapped under that skin I would core hole in the skin to suck the water out. I would likely get a plug to snap into the hole afterwards. I envision something like a plug for electrical box knockouts. A 3/4" hole would be a good size to get water out easily, as well as being big enough to be able to see what's going on in there. Maybe even fit an endoscope in if the void is big enough. I would cut the hole with a hole saw, that way you get a nice clean hole in the skin without even touching the hull beneath.

Fortunately there is no sign of water anywhere under my floorboards...just dust! I have about 1/4" of water in the bilge sump, but that's it.

Someone mentioned a strainer around the bilge pump? Mine has a strainer around the whole sump, and it looks pretty fine. Is that not standard equipment?

[zaphod]

Jan 24, 2021 6:23:18 GMT dbostrom said:

Bearing Charlie-Bravo's remarks in mind, one thing I like about that strainer arrangement: salt water not dripping anywhere near the nice non-rusty engine. 

I like Zaphod's idea. Not only as a remedy for the immediate problem at hand but also for the other reasons mentioned. As well, there would be a bit more headroom for stuffing in more bottles of wine. 

Now I'm not sure whether to avoid stepping in this area and thus remain in blissful ignorance, or just grab a saw and start going all Zaphod on it.

Does anybody know whether there's any wood involved in the frames/girders of these boats? I've drilled into a floor and it seemed to be solid FRP but this entire thread makes me wonder about wood down in this area, what will happen if it's not fully encapsulated. 

I could not see any sign of wood by shining a light into the limber holes. I doubt there is any wood, but now I am curious. Maybe I will take my endoscope down and see what's in there. I doubt there is any wood but you never know. I do wonder when I hear about things like wood under the compression posts on DS models.