895 - Twin 150’s vs Twin 200’s

[ArmyChief]

Ive read a few threads from owners with single 300’s testing different props. It seems in the US, most 895’s come with twin 200’s.

Can some individuals give input on what they think the performance and more importantly the fuel consumption (or the lack of) differences would be with twin 150’s vs twin 200’s ?

Thanks

[westboating]

Chief,

     I've got 2x200s.  Capt Lynn has the single 300, something I think was popular on some of the European built boats.  It is my belief the 895s built stateside weighs more than the Polish built 895s and older Merry Fisher 855s and thus the single 300 isn't the ideal power for the boat.  Capt Lynn has done some serious prop homework and has great perspective on this.  The cost savings I last saw on the 300 v 2x200's was $16K on the new purchase price, but my dealer said they are not doing the single 300 any longer as much of the 300hp set up was delegated down to dealer install, different steering and fuel tank plumbing.  That may have changed in the last year. 

     The twin 200's are great, but the whole boat is a bit heavier than the spec, which I think doesn't include much of what's on the boats for options.  Jeanneau says 7,700 lbs with 2x200s.  I weighted mine...twice and after backing out truck and trailer weights (measured once), I think she's about 9,600 - 9,800lbs, and that's where the 2x200s are nice.  I found an 895 review on performance which matches mine pretty well.  Optimum medium speed cruise 24ish kts and about 1.55 nautical mile/gal.  I've had her up to high 30's wide open and 34 gph (not worth the $$$$).

     Earlier this month I ran into a nice couple running an 895 with twin 150s.  They had a great boat and the wife had some really cool modifications for storage and livability.  The husband did lament the fuel economy, claiming he's lucky to see 1.25 nautical miles/gal. 

     The bottom line is the boats not super light and the twin 150s aren't a huge weight savings with two lower units dragging in the water.  I'd say the single 300 (if you can get a new one, or find an old one) is a great money saver, but you'll have to deal with the performance limitations and the limited maneuverability...twins and a bow thruster, if I can't get it on the dock with that...I've got problems.

Good luck

[ArmyChief]

Westboating,

Thanks for the input..that prop thread is the one I was alluding to.  I was thinking of ordering a 895 without any engines (or rigging) and looking at a pair of OX outboard diesels.  They have 150's & 200's available now.  This would keep the boat a single source fuel (generator & propulsion) while also giving an approx 30% increase in fuel economy.  

Just mind mapping...nothing serious yet.

[westboating]

Chief,

     I'd love to see that.  It's great boat, and so far our dealer has been great and responsive to all of our minor issues.

[ArmyChief]

I called Jeanneau to ask about the added weight of the diesel outboards and they said it would be fine.  Gonna wait to the boatshow and see what kind of deal I can on a pair.

[dogbreath]

Chief Your idea of utilizing diesel outboards in the nc 895 is intriguing. There are advantages and disadvantages of diesel outboards. One of the disadvantages is the added weight. The OXE 150 and OXE 200 are both listed as 350 kgs in weight. The Yamaha f200 has a weight of 221 kgs. In a twin configuration, the weight difference would be 258 kgs or 569 pounds. That is a lot of additional weight to place off the transom in a NC 895. The OXE is also considerably wider at the cowling which I would assume would require mounting them further apart. Besides questioning the structural integrity of the transom over time, that much additional weight would impact the balance of the boat. As you continue with your proposal/plan please keep us posted on your results/findings. Thanks Dogbreath.

[ArmyChief]

dogbreath,

The weight was the main concern, which is why I called Jeanneau.  Wasn't sure if any structural "enhancements" would be beneficial (maybe a few glasses in pieces of carbon fiber/kevlar).  I think if I get really serious after all the research and conversations..I'll try to make sure from the engineering side of Jeanneau.  Maybe get something in writing .

[lynnardm]

Westboating, ArmyCheif, Dogbreath,

Lots of good discussion on engines! I went through the engine dilemma for over a year and if I was purchasing now I’d still have the same dilemma. I would expect all engine choices to have close to the same mpg at slow on plane cruise so if the twin 150’s are not close to the twin 200’s that’s a surprise. But there is a lot that can affect it -‘props, actual boat weight, conditions, etc. What is the right choice for me? The single engine still seems to make sense for my wife and me. There are no fuel savings at on-plane speeds but significantly better at hull speeds. We do like to do a lot of slow hull speed travel between destinations if it's not too far. We keep our boat light which was part of my plan. No generator, no kayaks on the roof, the hull is not stuffed full of stuff for kids, etc. That said, we did spend several days with friends Earlier this summer. I Went across the straight with 5 guys, fishing gear, 10 crab traps, lots of other gear, etc and the 300 handled it fine although it was working hard. The 300 has gobs of torque. That said, if this much weight was going to be the norm the twin 200’s would be the best choice. While I’m rambling... I’ll have to admit I have a preference for a single vs twins. I had a boat with twins some time back. The ongoing costs and work to maintain both was a pain. I’ll use the purchase and maintenance savings to get a new engine some years down the road when the next generation of engines is proven. Which brings me to the subject of diesels. The OXE diesel is interesting and promising. The 300 that they are working on might be a perfect choice for an 895. Twin 200’s in my opinion would be way too heavy. Perhaps the hull can handle it but that’s a lot of torque to consider too. Regarding weight, the stern would probably sit 5” deeper (than with a 300) at rest. My thought is that 900 pounds is the max that should be hung on an 895. I will take exception to one statement made about limited maneuverability with a single 300. I have no problem docking and such. With the ability to swing the engine hard port or hard starboard and the bow thruster I can get in almost anywhere. Any at speed handling is excellent. For example, pulling a skier or tuber in hard turns she responds quite well. We should get one of you guys with the twins and me with my single and do some hole shot and hard turn competition. Notice I didn’t mention anything about a high speed race :,)

Capt’n Lynn

[westboating]

Capt Lynn,

       In your favor is the 4ish cranks of the helm stop to stop vs ours at 7 to 8.  I have brought her into the dock as an exercise without the wheel at all.  Four 90 degree turns and the river current and made it without a touch of steering.  No indictment of your helmsman-ship intended

[ArmyChief]

My only real reason for dual engines (I’ve had both throughout my boating career so far) is REDUNDANCY!

You get offshore...have a second engine can be a godsend.

[Capt’n Ron]

This is an interesting thread with some great feedback and things to think about.  Performance is an interesting topic because it really is subjective based on various perspectives.   Personally, I think Jeanneau under-powers their outboard boats, and while I can only speak of my 795 with it’s 200 that I think would do much better with a 225 or 250, reading other post on this forum it seems consistent most find when the boat is loaded-up for trips it could use a bit more power. I found it especially true when I was offshore with four people onboard and I couldn’t keep up with the swells.  The other measurement I use is when I look at other boats of similar size and weight (and in some cases less), they are typically powered-up by 25 to 50HP over the 795 and 895 motors.  

I am looking to move up to an 895 this year and Capt’n Lynn and me have a great time discussing and debating setups. I’m looking to power my 895 with at least twin 225 (planning offshore and maybe Merc’s) or 250.  It’s not that I need more speed, but rather the extra torque, and, the larger motors seem to get better mpg at cruising speeds around 25-27 knots (not RPM). And I get it, even though the run rate might be better, the motors cost more and it would take a lot of boating to break even on fuel savings, but when I fill the tank I feel the pocket book every time versus that one time output for the boat. If I weren’t looking at offshore I would consider the new Yamaha 425, it’s pretty slick and has electronic steering. I also find the diesel outboards interesting, but I think it’s going to take time to get the weight and cost down before I would consider them. Who knows, maybe by the time I get my 895 the cost and weight will be down!  






       

[ArmyChief]

Ron,

You would consider a single 425 HP for offshore?  Do you agree having two motors givers some "comfort" of redundancy?

Good thing..is the sharing of this forum that allows new buyers to adjust their options.  I'm sure Jeanneau monitors and hopefully directs discussions to the appropriate individuals for refinements/considerations.

[Capt’n Ron]

Hey Doug, I think you missed it where I mentioned if I weren’t going to do offshore I would consider the 425.

[ArmyChief]

Yup..sorry...In Hawaii on cruise ship...just trying to catch up quickly.  Thanks sir

[lynnardm]

We’re currently in Everett on our voyage from vashon island to the San Juan’s and beyond. Yes captain Ron says I should get the 425. Heck I could get to Canada in an hour :,). I just wish that beast wasn’t so darn heavy. Yamaha is launching a detuned version the 375 in Europe. That might make sense but it’s still a beast. And yes I get it that every additional redundancy has value when heading offshore. I don’t plan on doing that. My plan in Puget sound if I loose an engine is to drift and drop anchor if needed. I’ve been lucky when I ran out of fuel being at or near a marina

Capt’n Lynn

Capt’n Lynn

[lynnardm]

Aug 29, 2019 22:40:34 GMT ArmyChief said:

Ron,

You would consider a single 425 HP for offshore?  Do you agree having two motors givers some "comfort" of redundancy?

Good thing..is the sharing of this forum that allows new buyers to adjust their options.  I'm sure Jeanneau monitors and hopefully directs discussions to the appropriate individuals for refinements/considerations.

ArmyChief

Unfortunately I’ve never seen any indication that jeanneau pays any attention to this forum. Mostly that’s the case for dealers too.

Capt’n Lynn

[ArmyChief]

Aug 30, 2019 3:45:53 GMT lynnardm said:

Aug 29, 2019 22:40:34 GMT ArmyChief said:

Ron,

You would consider a single 425 HP for offshore?  Do you agree having two motors givers some "comfort" of redundancy?

Good thing..is the sharing of this forum that allows new buyers to adjust their options.  I'm sure Jeanneau monitors and hopefully directs discussions to the appropriate individuals for refinements/considerations.

ArmyChief

Unfortunately I’ve never seen any indication that jeanneau pays any attention to this forum. Mostly that’s the case for dealers too.

Capt’n Lynn

A shame, lot's of valuable input that could be used to better the product and address possible deficiencies.

[lynnardm]

ArmyChief

Have you seen info on the COX 300 diesel? less weight than the twin Yamaha 200’s or the 425, probably around the same top speed, and perhaps 25% lower fuel burn plus the lower cost of diesel. Other than being unproven it looks like the best choice I’ve seen for an 895 (if a single is acceptable). I have an inquiry in to them.

Capt’n Lynn

[ArmyChief]

Lynn,

I have, just would have preferred dual motors for redundancy. However, the single 300 might be the best option. Since it’s a GM diesel, I’m sure one could get it “tuned” if need be afterwards for more HP .

I was going to wait till boat show, but if you get info back from COX, let me (is) know.

BTW, have you seen the latest video...the lower unit they developed has no dog clutch....one can go from forward, directly to reverse in emergency situations without any noise or potential damage !

[lynnardm]

ArmyChief

The Cox CXO 300 is not based on a GM engine. It’s a new outboard diesel design. I’ll keep you informed.

Capt’n lynn

[ArmyChief]

Ah, there are two diesel outboard options...sweet . Thanks !