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Post by hoppy on Mar 23, 2019 20:44:52 GMT
Here's a theoretical scenario for the forum. We have dual citizenship, UK and Australian. And we'd really like to spend the 5 months of winter in a certain spot in Greece. With the 90 days in 180 days rule applying once Brexit happens can we use our dual passports to our advantage. For example enter Greece on our UK passports on October 15th then exit on UK passports on January 15th to sail to Albania for a couple of nights. Then return to Greece and enter on our Aussie passports for a further 90 days stay. Gotta think outside the box.
If you return to Greece at the same port, they might remember you and give you a hard time. Also with the clearing out and in costs of Greece & Albania, it will be an unnecessarily expensive exercise. Easier and cheaper to just leave the boat in the marina and take flights to a non-schengen country to do the passport switch-a-roo
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Post by tilo on Mar 24, 2019 1:47:12 GMT
I'm not in the least bit affected by any of this, but isn't this all premature speculation? From across the pond, it looks like the British Parliament can't fight its way out of a paper bag right now, let alone formulate any sort of cohesive plan, so aren't the odds good that nothing will change for the foreseeable future?
Love the cat joke. The Brits always loved to hate the EU, pining for the Empire and thinking they were better. So while the rest of Europe won't hold it against individual Brits, I think there is a big communal smirk going around the continent.
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Post by jy51 on Mar 24, 2019 5:59:11 GMT
I'm not in the least bit affected by any of this, but isn't this all premature speculation? From across the pond, it looks like the British Parliament can't fight its way out of a paper bag right now, let alone formulate any sort of cohesive plan, so aren't the odds good that nothing will change for the foreseeable future? Love the cat joke. The Brits always loved to hate the EU, pining for the Empire and thinking they were better. So while the rest of Europe won't hold it against individual Brits, I think there is a big communal smirk going around the continent. I agree with your sentiment, but premature speculation, not sure! A law is in place, passed by Westminster that says the U.K. leaves the EU, what has changed so far is that the date has been moved to 12 April. Unfortunately that is the foreseeable future. Personally I would like to see the whole thing revoked, but tell me, what goes through your mind when you stand at the edge of a cliff and you look down at the rocks below, and if just by chance you slipped and fell, wouldn’t it be great if you have previously thought of being secured with a rope or at the least a parachute? No different to passage planning, looking for those refuge ports if the weather turns nasty or that “get you out of Jail card” if you miss a tidal gate.
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Post by vasko on Mar 24, 2019 8:40:32 GMT
Don’t forget the date will possibly change - the change to 12 aprill is still not final...
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Post by vasko on Mar 24, 2019 8:42:53 GMT
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Post by alenka on Mar 24, 2019 18:54:47 GMT
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Post by alenka on Mar 24, 2019 19:01:12 GMT
Baz,
You may be better placed than us Brits for extended cruising of Greece following BREXIT on your Aussie passport.
I could be wrong but I seem to remembering reading that you could apply for an extended tourist visa. There was some sort of twist. Maybe Aussies have to apply in Australia or at a consulate before entering Greece but Kiwi's could apply when in Greece?
Perhaps others who have gone through this process will put concrete facts here, or correct me. I am sure if you post of the CA forum you will get a definite answer.
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Post by alenka on Mar 24, 2019 19:44:26 GMT
Yochties looking towards a residency permit as a way around the 90/180 rule should be aware that they may find local tax rules in some countries rather expensive. Falling foul of Matriculation Tax in Spain for example could cost you 12% of your boat value. In addition, their wealth tax seems to come and go from time to time (not applicable at the moment but who knows) and could see your boat as taxable asset.
*The good new is (at the moment) they reset the clock on the 90 day rule at midnight on December 31st. Which means you can spend 90 days in the country up until the 31st and then another 90 days from the 1st January onwards without applying for residency.
Maybe not great news for everybody but if you're looking to over-winter on your boat in the Med it is (at the moment) possible. Just don't go over 183 days. Oh... And check out which areas of Spain charge the G5 tax on yachts - that could add another chunk to your berthing bill.
Please, do not take my word as verbatim. Things change.
Spain does not have legal solicitors in the same way as the UK, they have legal advisors know as Jestors. Some of which specialise in maritime matters. I am led to believe that their services are not expensive and they will make sure you stay the right side of tax laws, etc.
When I was shopping for a boat in Italy I found many locals went for the French flag rather than the Italian one. It seems there is a berthing tax applicable to local boat owning citizens (not to other EU nationals keeping their boat in Italian waters) but I cannot say for sure that they see a difference between citizen or resident. My only contact with legal advisors suggested that any form of representation could prove very expensive.
*My understanding is, and I could be wrong, that many Eu countries stick to 90 days in followed by 90 days out regardless. Does anyone know this to be different?
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Post by jy51 on Mar 24, 2019 19:51:34 GMT
alenka, by posting this link to Germany’s bad record of applying EU laws I assume you wish to ignore the facts and remain in the “let’s hope and see maybe nothing will change” camp. Of course you are more than welcome to have your beliefs and opinion but as I said before, I only deal in facts and personally find it difficult to believe that any EU Country would break Schengen rules to allow U.K. passport holders free access to their Country, especially while the U.K. doesn’t give the same level of access to their citizens. Lastly this article has answered nothing, any idea that an EU Country would ignore Schengen rules is still only a hope not a fact as I said.
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Post by jy51 on Mar 25, 2019 7:15:38 GMT
*The good new is (at the moment) they reset the clock on the 90 day rule at midnight on December 31st. Which means you can spend 90 days in the country up until the 31st and then another 90 days from the 1st January onwards without applying for residency. Maybe not great news for everybody but if you're looking to over-winter on your boat in the Med it is (at the moment) possible. Just don't go over 183 days. Oh... And check out which areas of Spain charge the G5 tax on yachts - that could add another chunk to your berthing bill. Please, do not take my word as verbatim. Things change*My understanding is, and I could be wrong, that many Eu countries stick to 90 days in followed by 90 days out regardless. Does anyone know this to be different?Alenka I am not sure were you have found this information, i was under the impression that the 90/180 rule was a rolling road that simply means you look back to the last time you were in any Schengen Country and it must be 90 days before you can enter again for a maximum of 90 days. Within the 90 days you count the day you arrive and the day you leave regardless of the hour, so if your plane lands in Spain at 23:00 that is day one gone, if you take a night flight to leave that whole day ahead counts towards your total 90 days. So in effect you have the day you arrive the day you leave and 88 days there. Resetting clocks might relate to VAT requirements or other forms of residency but not the 90/180 day rule. When we leave the EU there will be no right or requirement to apply for residency as we will lose our EU status. The only grey area is what the visa free entry will entitle us too. I believe it is a one time entry within each 90 day period so if you only stay for a weekend you lose the rest of the 90 days. Some have said it gives us multi entry rights, that we can come and go as we like but whatever it is the 90/180 day rule applies, any other type of visa would relate to work and residency.
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Post by jy51 on Mar 25, 2019 8:46:46 GMT
Baz, You may be better placed than us Brits for extended cruising of Greece following BREXIT on your Aussie passport. I could be wrong but I seem to remembering reading that you could apply for an extended tourist visa. There was some sort of twist. Maybe Aussies have to apply in Australia or at a consulate before entering Greece but Kiwi's could apply when in Greece? Perhaps others who have gone through this process will put concrete facts here, or correct me. I am sure if you post of the CA forum you will get a definite answer. Unless the there has been a change to the rules, Australian passport holders get the same visa free access under the 90/180 day Schengen rule, which is classed as a holiday/business Visa that the Brits have been offered, there is no such thing as an extension to the 90 days under the Schengen Agreement. Any other kind of residency or entitlement to work comes from each individual Countries own immigration laws. However, I did read somewhere (but cannot confirm) that Portugal was the only Schengen Country to have a law which supplemented (under very special circumstances) the Schengen with a further 90 day extension visa, again nothing to do with Schengen but their own Country's law.
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Post by johannes on Mar 25, 2019 10:03:19 GMT
I think as long as the UK will not accept free entry from EU countries, the 90/180 day rule will apply for UK citizens. However UK expats are economically important to the Med countries, so there is a possibility that there will be special rules for residency in some of those countries. But the EU centrally has been fairly clear that they don't want to see separate deals between UK and individual EU countries post-Brexit.
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Post by jy51 on Mar 25, 2019 18:37:53 GMT
I think as long as the UK will not accept free entry from EU countries, the 90/180 day rule will apply for UK citizens. However UK expats are economically important to the Med countries, so there is a possibility that there will be special rules for residency in some of those countries. But the EU centrally has been fairly clear that they don't want to see separate deals between UK and individual EU countries post-Brexit. Yes, but we are talking about a different issue here, British immigrants to Spain or expats as they like to call themselves have normally taken up their right to residency under EU law and should be secure. Those with holiday villas who respect the 181 day residency rule and stay UK residents have a big problem after Brexit. They will have limited access to their villas under the Schengen 90/180 day rule. Even those with residency will still lose freedom of movement in other Schengen Countries. Only EU passport citizen get that privaledge. Many i speak to use the “they need us more than we need them” rhetoric and strongly believe Spain will not stand by and lose the Brit holiday home trade. It didn’t work with the German car industry I don’t think it will work with Spain. If Brexit goes through in its present form there will be thousands and thousands of Brits with holiday homes and boats in Europe who will have to indure an overnight lifestyle change.
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Post by vasko on Mar 26, 2019 7:38:37 GMT
Just FYI :
If a person invest 1m eur in Bulgaria or just keep a deposit of 1M eur in Bulgarian bank (e.g take a credit and put it in the bank and just pay the interest) after 18month it gets Bulgarian passport ... there are plenty of well known european banks in Bulgaria...
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Post by johannes on Mar 26, 2019 7:45:22 GMT
With money it's no problem to get permanent residency in under EU/Schengen rules. You can always get a work permit if you can show that you can get an employment. One way of doing that if you don't want to actually work would be to register a company in an EU country, and employ yourself in the company. All you need is money to put in the company to make it credible.
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Post by jy51 on Mar 26, 2019 10:32:04 GMT
My only response to both Vasko and johannes is; could either of you lend me the odd million euros, Im running low on disposable having just spend the kids inheritance on a new Jeanneau. I promise to pay you back next week!!!!
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Post by pipemma on Apr 7, 2019 13:02:33 GMT
The RYA pages are also worth a look:
I think one of the main things to consider is to try and make sure your boat is in EU waters on exit day, whenever that might be, to ensure that it remains Union Goods and retains its VAT-paid status
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