You more than likely have Water in your Fuel System!

[Capt’n Ron]

NC and MF x55 and x95 owners with the Attwood EPA certified Integrated Carbon Canister Fuel System, this is something you need to know! There is a design flaw in the fuel venting system that enables water to seep in through the fuel vent port and down to the carbon canister, and eventually into your fuel tank. This happened on my MF795 and I have confirmed with Attwood this is a known issue, and my Jeanneau dealer (Sundance Yacht Sales) said this has been problematic on x55 and x95 model boats. You should be able to confirm the details of your fuel system in the back of your boat owner's manual, and not all countries may require the fuel system to be EPA compliant.



This is a link to the Attwood Integrated Fuel System web site. Click on the first video "Carbon Canister System Normal Fueling Event" to see how the system works.

Attwood Integrated Fuel System


My Experience: A few weeks ago I was off the Washington State coastline out of La Push salmon fishing with 3 other guys onboard. The seas were moderately rough with 10-15kt winds, 2-3 foot wind waves with 4-5 foot swells at 10 seconds. At 17 miles out I encountered a water in the fuel alarm so we shut the engine down and pulled the cowling, and sure enough, there was water in the water fuel separator cup. We dumped it and the alarm went away. We encountered this alarm three more times so we also checked the fuel tank water fuel separator and drained about 2 cups of water. We did get back to the marina on our own and I assumed the water was from bad fuel I got at the Marina (Btw, I have always run ethanol free fuel). They checked their tanks and said there was no trace of water. At the same time I also started experiencing another issue, slow refueling (1 gallon per minute). For Obvious reasons I had to cancel the rest of the fishing trip and went home and started researching. As it turns out, the water did not come from the marina fuel, but rather a defective design of the fuel venting system on my MF795.



The issue: It's actually two issues having to do with the stainless steel vent port as well as the vent p-trap:

• If you have the stainless external vent, the current design actually acts like a cup and attracts water in through the vent. I was told by Attwood this only happens with the stainless steel vent. The other three vents do not have this issue.

• The p-trap, which is connected to the vent is supposed to ensure water does not get to the canister, but there is a design flaw allowing water to flow to the carbon canister. Again, Attwood confirmed this. Once the canister is wet it will become clogged causing a tank pressure issues resulting in the inlet control value to stay closed when you refuel, and you will experience very slow fueling. Eventually water can make it past the canister and into the fuel tank. I'm not talking about a little water, it could be significant, gallons! The Attwood tech said water can collect from washing the boat down, heavy rains, or waves washing up against the vent port. They are in the process of designing a new p-trap to correct this issue, but it won't be available for 3 to 4 months.



Attwood also indicated, contributing to the problem is where the boat manufactures have located these vents making them susceptible to waves, and it's not limited to Jeanneau power boats. On my MF795 the vent is located about 20" above the water line at the rear starboard outside hull of the boat, so it's very susceptible to sea waves. It took about 200 hours before I experienced a problem, but I've been told on some 895's those vents are lower to the water line. Not sure about where the vents are for 695 or any of the x55 models. On the newer NC 895 the vent ports have been moved above the fuel inlet caps on the walkaround, but they are still susceptible to boat wash down and rain .



Possible Symptoms:

• You experience very slow re-fueling. The gas nozzle keeps shutting off even when there is only little fuel in the tanks.

• You notice water in your engine or tank water/fuel separators.

• Engines begin to run rough, overheat, or simply fails.

• Even if you don't have any of these symptoms yet, if you have this system you will eventually have issues. Fuel stabilizers can't remove this much water.



The fix: I recommend these be done by the dealer or an experienced mechanic, but you can do them yourself. I found many of the components are not easily accessible and draining the tank can be difficult and expensive, so I opted to have my dealer take care of it. I would like to add that Sundance quickly got my boat on their schedule and Skip and crew up in Blaine did a great job fixing the issue.

• The carbon canister needs to be replaced if it gets wet according to Attwood to be EPA certified. When the dealer pulled mine is was completely full of water.

• Drain the water from the fuel tank. The dealer said they drained 5 gallons before they were seeing just fuel with no water.

• Replace both engine and tank water filters

• Add a siphon loop to the top of the p-trap

• Have the p-trap replaced when Attwood ships the new re-designed p-trap

• Note: you won't be able to swap the stainless steel vent for one of the others because vent hole is smaller on the other 3 vent types.

In my opinion this is a significant enough issue where there should have been a notification and recall issued to all owners with boats equipped with this system. For me, it put myself and three other people in a serious and dangerous situation. Fortunately it turned out OK (although it ruined a 4 day fishing trip), but someone else might not be so lucky!



Begs the question, "Where will you be when it happens to you!"



Cheers,

Capt'n Ron

[Cruising Cascadia]

This happened to me in my 2017 MF 855 last summer. It started with an inability to fuel at normal pressure. At one point, the fuel backed up like a geiser and shot all over me, my boat, and into the water.
I almost got banned from the marina fuel dock. Then, I was alone, on my way from Blaine to Roche Harbor in a small craft advisory. Halfway across the Straight of Georgia, my warning light came on about detecting water in the fuel. I pulled into Sucia and drained the water from the fuel filter as best as I could. I had someone help me removed the cowel and drain the water from the holding container. That helped for a week or so but the same thing happened on a calm day crossing the Straight. After several calls to Sundance, they took the boat into the shop and "fixed the venting problem". It was covered by warranty but it took a while for Sundance to take the time to fix it. I was even asked if I accidentally put water into the fuel tank instead of the freshwater tank. Maybe I was the "patient zero" of the Jeanneau fueling vent problems. We are expecting our 2019 895 any day. I hope I don't have a repeat of this problem with the new boat. 😒

Stacey

Read more: jeanneau.proboards.com/thread/6692/gasoline-filing-problems-on-855?page=1#ixzz5Po2VIXpd

[dogbreath]

Great detective work Capt'n Ron. A boat you cannot wash, be in the rain or rougher seas due to venting system of the fuel tank. Jeanneau needs to take ownership of this defect. The right thing for Jeanneau to do would be to issue a safety "recall" notice to all boat owners with this defect and replace the venting system at no cost to owner. Jeanneau are you listening to your own owner forum?

[lynnardm]

Capt’n Ron,

Thank goodness you made it back in safely! I really appreciate your work in understanding the issues and documenting them. We took delivery of my new 895 a month ago (the one with the single 300). The one tank as filled by the dealership was indicating (via the fuel gages) that it wasn’t full. So I went for gas to see if it was a gage problem. On both tanks I kept adding fuel each time the fuel nozzle clicked off as we wanted to be sure they were all the way full. Turns out the one tank was nearly 40 gallons from being full so the fuel gage indications were correct. Could I have overfilled the tanks? Moving on... Three weeks later I was nearing 1/3 fuel in each tank. So I stopped for fuel. I was having trouble with the left tank. The fuel nozzle would click off shortly after I would begin filling. I was concerned that I had a problem. But I adjusted the nozzle a few times and apparently found the “sweet spot” for good gas flow and then was able to pump 25 gallons with no problem. On the right side it acted the same but I quickly found the nozzle position that worked and was able to get 25 gallons without problems. I didn’t try filling the tanks. Bottom line is all seems ok and filling the tanks is similar to many cars that require adjusting the nozzle when pumping fuel in the tanks.

I took a look at the design of the Attwood P-trap and venting system. The sketch for the Stainless P-trap looks like it should be able to keep water from rain or washdown (when washing the boat) out of the system. But it does look like it could permit pressurized water to enter the system. So this could occur if waves were at or above the P-trap or if someone put a garden hose against it and blasted it under pressure. But I’m only looking at the Attwood sketch. Perhaps the actual build of it is different or it does have issues that are not apparent in looking at the sketch. I’d like to get my hands on one of these P-traps and test it.

Capt’n Lynn

[skippertim]

Capt'n Ron,

Many thanks for the great information.  We are in the process of buying a new NC 795 and asked the dealer if the new P-trap re-design has been implemented on our specific boat.  They stated that it was not a design issue, but instead a "one-off" event that was not really an issue to worry about.  Do you have any update from Attwood or Jeanneau on this issue? We plan to be offshore and I suspect that waves could easily breach the 20" inlet. We are now thinking of walking away as I am fairly sure given their comments that they may not fix the issue if it were to occur on our boat.

Many thanks again!

Skipper Tim

[Capt’n Ron]

Hi Skipper Tim, I can assure you this is not a one-off case and it will happen in the worst possible situation like mine and other owners. I have reached out to my contact at Attwood for an update as well as my contacts at Jeanneau.

Where are you located?  Feel free to send me a personal message if you want to discuss any details. 

Capt’n Ron

[Capt’n Ron]

Hi Skipper Tim, I’ve not heard back from Jeanneau, but I did get an update from Attwood.

Unfortunately the replacement P-trap (they call next generation) is still in what they call “Charter”and has no resources assigned based on priorities and may not be available until next year. Very disappointing! They did manufacture an interim fix for Formula Boats, but that was requested, developed and purchased exclusively by Formula Boats. This is proof in itself it’s a serious enough issue where a boat manufacture took the the initiative to manufacture a solution for their boat line and customers.

This is what the Attwood engineer originally recommended as a fix: “I hear of many cases where water has entered the canisters or the 5/8” vent line is plugged/pinched or not installed in a self-draining to tank orientation (droops). Water intrusion is usually due to improper vent placement by the boat builder. To prevent this issue from reoccurring you must modify the system to prevent water from getting past the vent/p-trap. A recommendation is to buy the 90° SS flush vent and routing the 5/8” upward as far as possible (higher then top of p-trap) to provide a more torturous path (most resistance) to prevent water intrusion. I’m not sure if your existing hose will be long enough to do this, so a hose extension might be necessary. Attwood is currently in process of designing a next generation p-trap to eliminate this issue, which will allow boat builders more freedom on the vent location.”

I know my dealer is very familiar with this issue and has had to fix a number of boats (795, 855, 895), so for your dealer to not acknowledge the issue is concerning.

This isn’t just a Jeanneau issue, it’s an industry issue. Attwood is one a several companies who provide EPA required fuel ventilation systems, but most of the issues I’ve seen reported are with the Attwood system on Mastercraft, Wellcraft (a Beneteau Group Boat), Chaparral, Robalo Boats, and yes, Jeanneau. Attwood did pointed out it becomes more of an issue the closer the vent is located to the water line, which makes sense given the type of boats reporting the problem are lower profile boats and more likely to have waves wash over the vent. But don’t think you are clear of the problem if your vent is located high. Heavy rain and wash downs can also attract water into the vent and canister. This is the design issue Attwood is looking to resolve with their Next Generation P-Trap.

I’ve asked myself, with this being such a known industry issue, why hasn’t it become a priority to fix! My thought is Attwood and boat manufactures see this as minor inconvenience to a small number of owners who experience slow fueling issues as the canister fills with water. The problem with that thinking is it can and has led to bigger and life threatening issue for myself and others when the problem progresses to water in the fuel and loss of power in rough water conditions. I also read another post where someone purchased a Wellcraft from a previous owner and he noticed fumes when operating the boat. It turned out the previous owner was experiencing slow fueling so he simply disconnected the vent from the canister and it was venting into the hull. How many other boats are out there just like that! I know I’ve seen a lot of DIYer post on how to fix slow fuel given the high cost to have a professional fix the problem. It would be unfortunate if it takes loss of lives linked to this for manufactures to prioritize the issue. In the mean time, boat manufactures can take their own initiative such as what Formula Boat has done.

I have asked Jeanneau what they are doing to address the issue and I’m waiting to hear back. I do know they have relocated the vent on the new 2019 895, but I’m not sure about the 795 or 695. I was supposed to take a factory tour in Cadillac a few weeks ago but it had to be postponed due to weather. This was one of the items on my list.

Hope this helps and I will post updates if I get additional information.

Cheers,
Capt’n Ron

[noleman]

Capt'n Ron,

Looks like the same stainless vent and location on the 1095 as well?  Are they shipping new boats with this known issue?

[lynnardm]

Today for the first time I checked the fuel filters on my 2019 NC 895 offshore. This has the new design with the fuel fills on the port and starboard walkways and the fuel
Vents on the walls of the salon above the walkways. So the vents are well above where any waves might reach them. I’ve had the boat 8 months and of Course it’s been rained on a bunch and been washed down numerous times. I removed each filter and carefully dumped the contents of each into a clean glass jar and then for safety installed a sealed lid. There was not a single drop of water with the fuel in either container. One of the jars had several
Small Particles of debris and the other had none. So I was pleasantly surprised at the lack of any water and how clean the gas was. Given that for half of the winter the tanks were less than 1/4 full I thought perhaps there might be a slight amount of water from condensation. So for this boat it appears like it’s a good fuel Storage system with no water intrusion.

Capt’n Lynn

[lynnardm]

I just realized I hadn’t reported in this thread on my fuel system fixes on my 895. Alex from Seahawk yacht services “removed/fixed” the vent check valves (that vent during filling only) and calibrated the fuel
Senders. All Is now working great on the fuel
System with correct Indication of fuel level in the tanks and easy to fill with fuel and with no slow filling issues

Capt’n Lynn

[Mcaptain]

Sept 1, 2018 0:41:32 GMT Cruising Cascadia said:

This happened to me in my 2017 MF 855 last summer. It started with an inability to fuel at normal pressure. At one point, the fuel backed up like a geiser and shot all over me, my boat, and into the water.
I almost got banned from the marina fuel dock. Then, I was alone, on my way from Blaine to Roche Harbor in a small craft advisory. Halfway across the Straight of Georgia, my warning light came on about detecting water in the fuel. I pulled into Sucia and drained the water from the fuel filter as best as I could. I had someone help me removed the cowel and drain the water from the holding container. That helped for a week or so but the same thing happened on a calm day crossing the Straight. After several calls to Sundance, they took the boat into the shop and "fixed the venting problem". It was covered by warranty but it took a while for Sundance to take the time to fix it. I was even asked if I accidentally put water into the fuel tank instead of the freshwater tank. Maybe I was the "patient zero" of the Jeanneau fueling vent problems. We are expecting our 2019 895 any day. I hope I don't have a repeat of this problem with the new boat. 😒

Stacey

Stacey, curious if you have had similar problems on your new 895. I'm looking for validation that the issue was rectified on the early 2019s.

[Capt’n Jack]

Hi Capt’n Ron,

Have you ever received clarification as to the fuel vent issue and have Attwood issued a solution?

I am am in the UK and really struggle to fuel my 795 due to the same problems as others have described of the fuel kicking back and out of the filling neck and I cannot feel any air coming out of the fuel vent whilst refuelling. It takes 45 minutes to an hour to fuel the boat and several lost litres of fuel which the Marina are not at all happy with!

The local Jeanneau dealer is not interested in helping as I did not buy the boat from them and the supplying dealer say that they are not aware of the problem or this being a known issue. 

The boat is 8 months old, have Jeanneau issued a solution or at least an acknowledgement that this is a known problem?

I am arranging for the local engineer to take a look as he seems to be aware as he has experienced the same Attwood issues on other boats but not Jeanneau.

Thank you in advance. 

Kind Regards

Jack

[Capt’n Ron]

Hi Jack, l just sent you a message to get some more details. I'm going to check with my US Jeanneau contacts to see if there is anything they can do. It's really unfortunate the dealers are choosing to handle it this way. 

Cheers,
Capt'n Ron

[Capt’n Jack]

Hi Capt'n Ron,

I wanted to give you an update with my fuelling and vent issue.

The local Jeanneau dealer was still being obstructive and unhelpful, I was considering a formal complaint against them to Jeanneau but as they are part of the marina I am berthed within, I may not.

Anyway, the local engineer who does all the PDi and warranty for Jeanneau has been very helpful and worked with the original supplying dealer.  

The vent system on my boat is different to what is described in the handbook and different from Jeannueau's own specification diagrams, we are not sure if it is different for the European market or an updated design - anyway it took some time to fully find and trace all the relevant pipes and connections etc but we have found that the vent pipe is simply too long and is completely kinked and potentially the reason no air could escape, why it has been allowed to leave the factory like this no-one knows.

The engineer had to access the vent and pipe via the starboard fishing rod holder and was only successful as he had a young apprentice who could get their hand down far enough. They have had to cut the pipe to shorten it as this was the only way that they could force the pipe to be straight.

We are all back together and I am hoping to get to test refuelling over the next few days once our weather improves.

Best Wishes

Jack

[Capt’n Ron]

Hi Jack, glad to hear you got it resolved and I do understand your frustration.  Interesting about your setup and problem as I’ve wondered if European setups were different given the carbon system is to address EPA requirements, but the bottom line is if that vent gets blocked in any way it will cause filling issues. Sounds like the local guys who did the work are pretty sharp. We’ve seen the same thing in this area where some of the local shops helping with warranty repairs do good work.

Thanks for posting your issue and results. 

I wish you smooth sailing from here on out!

Cheers,
Capt’n Ron

[woparella]

I know this thread was last posted 2 years ago, but I believe I'm having the same issues.  Does anyone have a part number for the new Attwood vent?  Or has Capt Ron gotten a response from Jeanneau?  I just bought a 2015 MF855 and it took me an hour to pump 25 gallons into the tank.  I have the stainless steel vent.  

Capt Mike

[Capt’n Ron]

Hi Capt Mike, the last communication I had with Attwood was in 2019 so I'm not sure if they ever got their updated vent out of Charter process.  This could very well be your issue as the 855 vent location is different than the current 895's which were moved to a much better location.  You can write Attwood, but the other option is to add the siphon loop at the vent and you should be good.  It's possible the carbon filter may be blocked as well like mine was.  The dealer actually removed it from the system instead of replacing it, but I have not had any more issues and I've been out in a lot of rough water washing up against the vent while fishing.  

If you haven't done this, I recommended checking to see if your water/fuel separator has water in the bowl on the engines and check/replace the tank separators.  It could be you just have water in the vent line that has not made it to the carbon filter or tanks yet.  


Good luck, I know it's a frustrating problem to have.

Ron

[woparella]

Thank you Capt'n Ron!  I plan on adding a siphon loop at the vent and checking on all of the fuel filters this week.  I'll try to post something if it works for me.  Thank you

[rjj]

Capt' n Ron

I am a new member with a 2019 NC 795. I have to replace the Attwood fuel canister however it is extremely difficult to remove due to its location. Any suggestions on how to reach and replace the canister will be appreciated.