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Post by ania on Aug 13, 2019 13:36:25 GMT
Guys quick question if you have DW70BT Icemaker, it is running only on 110-220V power. I was reading the manual and it states that it could use both 110-220 and 12-24Volts is it true? Would like to set it up with DC power as well since main refrigerator freezer is just not enough for us. Hi, we thought the 220volt freezer with ice maker draw unsuitable when cruising away from a marina so asked Jeanneau to supply and fit a 12 volt version, however, it doesn’t have the ice making facility. Unfortunately the version you have would need to be run constantly on an inverter or generator whilst sailing and anchoring. Haven’t thought of that unfortunately, and we don’t even use ice maker. It doesn’t run on inverter. May be there is a way to rewire it ?
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Post by jy51 on Aug 14, 2019 6:21:50 GMT
I would have thought the reason they don’t supply a 12 volt version of the freezer/ice maker is that the current draw would be too much, so you might find it difficult to find an inverter beefy enough or a battery bank large enough.
I also have the factory option 2 kw inverter which supplies power only to the 230 volt sockets when shore power or the generator is not available. However, when I run the 8 Kw generator it has enough power to cope with everything and is therefore connected directly to all 230 volt items, battery chargers, hot water tank heating element and if fitted the 230 volt ice maker. Running a generator continually would obviously not be an option.
Other than replacing the drawer freezer with a 12 volt version without ice maker, I don’t see any other solution if you need the capacity whilst off grid.
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Post by goody on Aug 14, 2019 7:32:56 GMT
Oh contrare, I had the same issue when we were away for 2 - 3 weeks so I had the electrician put it through a seperate fuse and connect to the inverter that was supplied. The power wasnt much different from the other two fridges allthough I did freeze it down while on 230 volt before leaving the berth so it didnt have to freeze itself on battery. My solar plus 40 minutes a day motoring keeps all three fridges/freezers working well.
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Post by ania on Aug 14, 2019 13:04:45 GMT
Oh contrare, I had the same issue when we were away for 2 - 3 weeks so I had the electrician put it through a seperate fuse and connect to the inverter that was supplied. The power wasnt much different from the other two fridges allthough I did freeze it down while on 230 volt before leaving the berth so it didnt have to freeze itself on battery. My solar plus 40 minutes a day motoring keeps all three fridges/freezers working well. So, it is possible to wire it through inverter. Good news, because I already called dealers and priced out 12 volt version which is $1770. Was it hard to do?
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Post by jy51 on Aug 14, 2019 16:28:13 GMT
Oh contrare, I had the same issue when we were away for 2 - 3 weeks so I had the electrician put it through a seperate fuse and connect to the inverter that was supplied. The power wasnt much different from the other two fridges allthough I did freeze it down while on 230 volt before leaving the berth so it didnt have to freeze itself on battery. My solar plus 40 minutes a day motoring keeps all three fridges/freezers working well. I don’t dispute what you say but am surprised that the 2 kw inverter supplied by Jeanneau is comfortable running the freezer continually day and night while coping with the odd kettle and coffee maker at the same time. When at anchor even the TV sets off the cooling fan within an hour (which can be very noisy) and the coffee maker, straightening tongs and hair dryer struggle, and we have lithium batteries.
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Post by ania on Aug 17, 2019 16:50:22 GMT
So, you think its possible to splice AC wires from inverter to AC wires from Shore/Genset going into freezer? Looks like it only uses 3 Amp without Icemaker function that we don't use anyway.
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Post by rene460 on Aug 18, 2019 8:43:42 GMT
Hi Ania,
I don’t know whether you are in Europe or USA, but if your fridge draws three amps, on 110 V, that is 330 watts. On 220 V, it is 660 watts. Watts is the units for the power that your inverter has to supply. So the inverter is probably comfortable with that.
However, you have to supply that power from your batteries which I assume are 12 V. Power = Volts x Amps, so 330 watts on 12 v will require 330 / 12 = 27.5 amps. Actually you will require a bit more, as the inverter is not 100% efficient.
I don’t know how many hours the fridge compressor will actually run each day, but I would guess 8 to 12, depending on how well it is insulated and how much warm stuff you put into it each day. Say 10 hours for easy calculation, so over 275 amp.hours each day draw from the fridge. And you need to be able to put that much back in each day to recharge the batteries. Again, you actually need more than this as the battery charging is also not 100% efficient. I would assume you will need more than 300 amp hours, and possible 350 to keep even, assuming no other power use. (You can check how many hours a day the fridge motor actually runs by taking some quiet moments to time the on time and off time, preferably at different times of the day to see what percentage of time it actually runs.)
To me, the issue is not the inverter, but whether you have the charging capacity and battery capacity to handle this, along with other users, which could add up to as much again.
On the issue of splicing the wires, I am not a fan of splicing, and prefer a properly crimped connector in a screwed or bolted terminal point, but I will leave it to others to comment. However I would caution against working on mains voltage wiring if you do not have the appropriate experience.
Rene460
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Post by jy51 on Aug 18, 2019 13:13:32 GMT
Rene460’s calculations seem reasonable but I think everyone is missing the point.
Rewiring the freezer via the inverter will require running the inverter continually day and night whilst cruising, putting aside the obvious extra draw from the batteries regardless of how many you have, the inverter can become very noisy like a battery charger when the cooling fans kick in.
As previously stated I have the factory installed MasterVolt 12/2000 which is situated under the chart table and when running it will automatically start up the cooling fan after about 45 minutes regardless of wether there is a load and if using the coffee machine or hair dryer, the sudden draw will cause the fan to run flat out for a few seconds.
If you have an inverter installed in a different location were it is sound insulated OK or if your brand of inverter runs very quietly fine but personally I don’t think I could cope with the noise of my inverter fan running all day. It would be interesting to know where goody has his inverter installed and wether he has the same noise issues as me.
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Post by markclement on Aug 19, 2019 1:32:48 GMT
Hi On ours it came with the factory charger (behind the VIP cupboard port side) and that fan is noisy - it charges all three battery systems (engine, house and thruster). The inverter was installed in AU rather than factory version. It is a Victron Multiplus = a combination 3000VA inverter and 120AMP charger for house only. It is installed behind the settee backrest and you cannot hear it when the cushion is in place. Cheers
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Post by jy51 on Aug 19, 2019 8:07:40 GMT
Hi On ours it came with the factory charger (behind the VIP cupboard port side) and that fan is noisy - it charges all three battery systems (engine, house and thruster). The inverter was installed in AU rather than factory version. It is a Victron Multiplus = a combination 3000VA inverter and 120AMP charger for house only. It is installed behind the settee backrest and you cannot hear it when the cushion is in place. Cheers Sounds like a well thought out installation, I regret going with the factory offer, I did ask at the time if they could supply a 3KW inverter rather than the 2 but they said they couldn't. I have also send an email to MasterVolt asking if it is normal for the fan to be so noisy and run continually after 45 minutes even under light load but they failed to respond. I might look into an alternative arrangement after I fit my solar system over the winter. I am still coming to terms with all the wiring installation, but regarding the factory fitted battery charging systems, I believe we have two chargers behind the hanging cupboard in the VIP port side, one charges the three lithium house batteries and the other charges the engine starter battery along with another battery of a different size and type which I assume powers the electric transom platform. Under our master cabin berth are four bow thruster batteries with their own dedicated charger.
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Post by goody on Aug 20, 2019 18:34:20 GMT
Hi everyone, I am not an expert and reading some of this data clearly there are some stats that would challenge this however I can tell you what actually happens for me. My inverter is the standard install and is housed under the chart table, it can be slightly annoying if constant but over the three week trip we did at Xmas it was fine and we didnt really notice it. We have the freezer on at this time as we had a seperate fuse added for the freezer (under bench) and turned off the ice maker. It uses approximately 2.5 amps an hour once bedded down and we are careful how often we open it. Usually it operates for 20-25 minutes an hour, we used the motor for approximately 40 minutes a day when were travelling just to get out of or into an anchorage or 40 minutes at anchor if we were staying to get the water hot and the rest was covered by the solar panels. We dont use hair dryers or coffee makers when at anchor (Just when on shore power) so in short it all works for us with the standard setup but we do have 720 amp hours in the house bank so we dont worry too much.
Hope this is of some help.
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Post by jy51 on Aug 21, 2019 8:28:10 GMT
Hi everyone, I am not an expert and reading some of this data clearly there are some stats that would challenge this however I can tell you what actually happens for me. My inverter is the standard install and is housed under the chart table, it can be slightly annoying if constant but over the three week trip we did at Xmas it was fine and we didnt really notice it. We have the freezer on at this time as we had a seperate fuse added for the freezer (under bench) and turned off the ice maker. It uses approximately 2.5 amps an hour once bedded down and we are careful how often we open it. Usually it operates for 20-25 minutes an hour, we used the motor for approximately 40 minutes a day when were travelling just to get out of or into an anchorage or 40 minutes at anchor if we were staying to get the water hot and the rest was covered by the solar panels. We dont use hair dryers or coffee makers when at anchor (Just when on shore power) so in short it all works for us with the standard setup but we do have 720 amp hours in the house bank so we dont worry too much. Hope this is of some help. goody, just to raise one issue, you state that the inverter when running is slightly annoying, I have the same standard factory installed set up and to be honest I find the level of noise when the fan is running to be ten times worse than the noise from the battery chargers whilst on bulk charge. Obviously its difficult to describe sound but your slightly annoying and my completely unacceptable are worlds apart, do I have a faulty unit with a dodgy fan? As previously mentioned I have tried emailing MasterVolt but never received a reply, maybe I need to get the Jeanneau agent to investigate for me.
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Post by ania on Aug 21, 2019 12:50:44 GMT
Hi everyone, I am not an expert and reading some of this data clearly there are some stats that would challenge this however I can tell you what actually happens for me. My inverter is the standard install and is housed under the chart table, it can be slightly annoying if constant but over the three week trip we did at Xmas it was fine and we didnt really notice it. We have the freezer on at this time as we had a seperate fuse added for the freezer (under bench) and turned off the ice maker. It uses approximately 2.5 amps an hour once bedded down and we are careful how often we open it. Usually it operates for 20-25 minutes an hour, we used the motor for approximately 40 minutes a day when were travelling just to get out of or into an anchorage or 40 minutes at anchor if we were staying to get the water hot and the rest was covered by the solar panels. We dont use hair dryers or coffee makers when at anchor (Just when on shore power) so in short it all works for us with the standard setup but we do have 720 amp hours in the house bank so we dont worry too much. Hope this is of some help. goody, just to raise one issue, you state that the inverter when running is slightly annoying, I have the same standard factory installed set up and to be honest I find the level of noise when the fan is running to be ten times worse than the noise from the battery chargers whilst on bulk charge. Obviously its difficult to describe sound but your slightly annoying and my completely unacceptable are worlds apart, do I have a faulty unit with a dodgy fan? As previously mentioned I have tried emailing MasterVolt but never received a reply, maybe I need to get the Jeanneau agent to investigate for me. I think standard is Marinco 2000 watt inverter, fan comes on depending on temperature or wattage, and isn’t bad at all. So, we will rewire our freezer/ice maker into inverter’s Port side AC outlets circuit on electrical panel since that’s where it’s connected anyway, and not use ice maker function.
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Post by ania on Aug 21, 2019 12:54:26 GMT
goody, just to raise one issue, you state that the inverter when running is slightly annoying, I have the same standard factory installed set up and to be honest I find the level of noise when the fan is running to be ten times worse than the noise from the battery chargers whilst on bulk charge. Obviously its difficult to describe sound but your slightly annoying and my completely unacceptable are worlds apart, do I have a faulty unit with a dodgy fan? As previously mentioned I have tried emailing MasterVolt but never received a reply, maybe I need to get the Jeanneau agent to investigate for me. I think standard is Marinco 2000 watt inverter, fan comes on depending on temperature or wattage, and isn’t bad at all. So, we will rewire our freezer/ice maker into inverter’s Port side AC outlets circuit on electrical panel (since that’s where it’s wiring comes for shore/genset connection AC anyway), and not use ice maker function.
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Post by jy51 on Aug 21, 2019 16:52:32 GMT
I’m not sure there is a standard make of inverter in the 51 option list, my factory fitted 12 volt / 2000 watt was made by MasterVolt.
Its understandable that the cooling fan should start and stop depending on the load, but on mine the fan seems to comes on after about 45 minutes even if the load is very light and it then stays on. Situated under the chart table, the noise is intrusive. With only the TV on we end up having to turn it off to get some peace and quite.
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Post by goody on Aug 21, 2019 20:48:35 GMT
Thanks, I dont find it noisy and even at night while we are sleeping we dont notice it so maybe you do need to get it checked. Certainly we would never hear it above the TV.
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Post by oguz on Aug 26, 2019 6:15:05 GMT
Hi all, I am new to this and looking for a sample daily battery (amp) usage excel if anyone of you have done it for a typical Jeanneau51 configured for Europe. If you share your models I do appreciate , I can reuse it to start my own
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Post by rene460 on Aug 26, 2019 11:15:13 GMT
Hi Oguz, Welcome to the forum. You will find many friendly like minded people here. It is also a great place to find out more about your boat, and we all hope you will share some of your adventures as well. You will find the archives an invaluable resource, so many of the posts are timeless in their application. You will find many evenings of pleasant reading there. Also, don’t forget that many systems are common to several models of boats of all sizes, so don’t restrict your reading to one model alone.
How about post a little introduction to yourself on the welcome board (preferably start a new thread) and tell us about where you sail and what sort of sailing you enjoy.
There have been many posts on the subject of your question and quite a few example Excel files to get you started. Start looking under General Jeanneau Topics, and I am sure that you will soon find one. Someone else may reply with a specific link, but try the search box. It is often quite good.
In any case, just start a spreadsheet with a list of all the 12 V electrical users on your boat, with columns for Amps drawn, and your estimate of how many hours each will run. Then amp.hours per day equals amps by hours running per day. It’s probably easier to do your own than find another.
And please start a thread to tell us how you go with your investigation. It is a perennial topic.
rene460
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Post by jy51 on Sept 4, 2019 10:11:51 GMT
We have the electric terrace swim platform and like many on this thread have had a cracking gel coat problem from handover.
There was a fine crack about half a meter long on the edge of the drop down bathing platform, this, I believe to be due to the fact that the area of the moulding which forms the platform is thicker on top than the moulded return edge, this change from thick fibreglass to thinner is obviously a weak point and it is exactly along this line that the crack has appeared.
It was agreed that we would have this strengthened and repaired at winter layup time. However, using the swim ladder which rests on the edge has turned this fine crack into a deep structural crack which if simply repaired will split again.
Remember we are not talking about the rear transom panel that can be detached with 16 nuts, this is the platform itself and would be very difficult to remove and refit properly to access the rear to make structural repairs with glass matting and resin.
I have been advised that after making good the crack we should bolt a thin stainless steel plate where the swim ladder rests against the edge, this would have a second plate behind the edge to add the structural strength that is required. The external s/s plate would have studs welded on the reverse and nuts on the inner section so that there would be no visible sign of fixing.
Has any 51 or 54 owner experienced this edge crack and if so what measures did you take to cure the problem.
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Post by ania on Sept 7, 2019 19:38:25 GMT
Jy51, same thing here, will be claiming warranty!!! Thats just bad engineering.
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Post by ania on Sept 7, 2019 19:40:46 GMT
Also stress cracks:
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Post by markclement on Sept 7, 2019 22:48:04 GMT
Hi Ania, I can see the cracking on the "terrace moving platform" edge area from where the ladder legs push against - there must be tremendous leverage / mechanical advantage force from those legs when you consider the distance from the bolt attachment to the legs (100mm to 150mm?) compared to the active force at the bottom step a further 500mm ? down the ladder. Jeanneau would need to have extensive reinforcing to resist the deforming of the surface.
I also note on the last photo the cracks near the hinge area on the hatch - I believe this is the floor hatch that covers the rear storage area where a generator gets installed. I wonder why this area has cracked as I didn't think it had anything to do with the terrace action or ladder ? Our hatch area as yet does not have any cracks on that hatch under our rear cockpit floor - I will keep an eye on it. Cheers Mark
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Post by jy51 on Sept 8, 2019 11:27:25 GMT
Hi Ania, I can see the cracking on the "terrace moving platform" edge area from where the ladder legs push against - there must be tremendous leverage / mechanical advantage force from those legs when you consider the distance from the bolt attachment to the legs (100mm to 150mm?) compared to the active force at the bottom step a further 500mm ? down the ladder. Jeanneau would need to have extensive reinforcing to resist the deforming of the surface.
I also note on the last photo the cracks near the hinge area on the hatch - I believe this is the floor hatch that covers the rear storage area where a generator gets installed. I wonder why this area has cracked as I didn't think it had anything to do with the terrace action or ladder ? Our hatch area as yet does not have any cracks on that hatch under our rear cockpit floor - I will keep an eye on it. Cheers Mark
Mark, As stated in my thread, the edges needs a strong metal plate with a backing plate to carry the high load this ladder inflicts. Regarding the cracks around the hatch, these look like stress cracks, I have the same around my starboard rear coach roof hatch. I believe the top section of the boat is moulding in one vacuum packed section, good for cost efficiency but maybe not so good in rigidity.
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Post by goody on Sept 9, 2019 23:08:46 GMT
Hi Guys, I have the same issue on the transom and i had it repaired and strengthened last year but also where the swim ladder hits the hull and I am about to start warranty discussions, metal plate is a good idea it would spread the load. In the meantime I have attached two pieces of white hose over the point where the ladder hits so it stops the load from being in one place.
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SeaDarer
New Member
Posts: 6
Jeanneau Model: 51 Yacht
Yacht Name: SeaDarer
Home Port: Sidney
Country: Canada
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Post by SeaDarer on Oct 23, 2019 16:14:05 GMT
Hi Ania, I don’t know whether you are in Europe or USA, but if your fridge draws three amps, on 110 V, that is 330 watts. On 220 V, it is 660 watts. Watts is the units for the power that your inverter has to supply. So the inverter is probably comfortable with that. However, you have to supply that power from your batteries which I assume are 12 V. Power = Volts x Amps, so 330 watts on 12 v will require 330 / 12 = 27.5 amps. Actually you will require a bit more, as the inverter is not 100% efficient. I don’t know how many hours the fridge compressor will actually run each day, but I would guess 8 to 12, depending on how well it is insulated and how much warm stuff you put into it each day. Say 10 hours for easy calculation, so over 275 amp.hours each day draw from the fridge. And you need to be able to put that much back in each day to recharge the batteries. Again, you actually need more than this as the battery charging is also not 100% efficient. I would assume you will need more than 300 amp hours, and possible 350 to keep even, assuming no other power use. (You can check how many hours a day the fridge motor actually runs by taking some quiet moments to time the on time and off time, preferably at different times of the day to see what percentage of time it actually runs.) To me, the issue is not the inverter, but whether you have the charging capacity and battery capacity to handle this, along with other users, which could add up to as much again. On the issue of splicing the wires, I am not a fan of splicing, and prefer a properly crimped connector in a screwed or bolted terminal point, but I will leave it to others to comment. However I would caution against working on mains voltage wiring if you do not have the appropriate experience. Rene460
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