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Post by hoppy on Mar 5, 2017 21:09:02 GMT
Not taking off anything that will make it less comfortable for them. In fact it will be more comfortable especially when there are others onboard. On the delivery home, I had to sleep with the to Assy sails as there was nowhere to keep them and there was minimal space to store the food and drinks and even the crews bags. Now that I have emptied the lockers up front (except for blankets), I can now probably put both sails in the middle locker to get them out the way. The bimini and spray hood will stay onboard for cruising and if I was to relocate the winches, then I will just use the inboard winches just like I did for the first 3 or 4 years before I added the extras. the most important things for family sailing are : - hot water - huge amounts of hot water - fresh water - huge amount of fresh water, tons of it... - electricity - huge amount of it 12v and huge amount of 220v - large LED TV( as less possible consumption) in the saloon with built in DVD/B-RAY and USB disk with child films - expect it to run about 10h a day - also tablets with at least 4 powerful USB-s charging in every cabin. - microwave - Steam Sterilizer is a must - either microwave type ( less energy consumption on the way) or electric type in you stay at marina's - washing facility - a automated washing machine ( private - mothers do not like mixing baby stiff with adults stuff , especially with random adults in the washing facility at the marina) machine like the one that I was talking but you were making fun for 3kg ) will make your wife agree to come with your daughter a lot more then without it... - CLEANLINESS OF THE BOAT - mothers love clean boats - if you can hire a local cleaner who cleans and leave the boat smell on cleaning chemical - do not hesitate hire her asap - no matter how expensive worth every penny .... - get all the baby safety stuff - although we did not really use it much - my daughter still hate lifejackets and refuse wearing one... but Baltic has a baby one which is really safe - change your doors, ALL OF THEM to be unlockable - if your daughter lock herself by mistake in a room or head you will experience huge nervous breakdown from everyone around and may endup with never on a boat again ... - YOU SHOULD ALWAYS BEEN ABLE TO SEE YOUR DAUGHTER when on or around the boat - my daughter fell from the pontoon about 30meters away from us when she was 2years old ! we both ( me and my wife) almost got a heart attack! - when we arrive at the end of the pontoon the water was completely calm and our daughter was nowhere to be seen ! my wife jumper in the water the water the same second to try to dive and find her.. luckily our daughter was holding one of the pontoon piles under the pontoon and was not visible easy... all was OK - and although the chance in calm water a baby to actually drown until under 4 years old is zero (because her instincts prevail her brain before reaching 4)- when it happens to your child the zero chance do not matter - in brief START INVESTING IN SWIMMING LESSONS NOW if you ever plan to have your daughter around water. Got the new 40 litre hotwater system onboard. Will keep the water maker onboard as for longer races we can stay light. Mine does 60l/h perfect for family use, you should upgrade yours as your family will appreciate it A 15" laptop will suffice for TV Micro? no... boiling water will do the job We can had wash with our excessive water supply No need for a cleaner when we are so close. For overnight sails I run jack lines up the middle of the cockpit either side of the table. It is also perfect for toddlers for all sailing conditions The doors are unlockable from the outside Swimming lessons is pretty much a standard thing for Aussie children
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Post by seattle519 on Mar 5, 2017 21:10:33 GMT
You have to decide what kind of sailor you are.
A) Long term Cruiser. You spend a lot of time (perhaps measured in months) on the boat and need all your stuff.
B) Cruiser. Local cruising, short to medium distance.
C) Combo cruiser / racer.
D) Combo racer / cruiser.
E) Racer.
Weight is death for boat speed so things have to go as you go down the list. You can always put stuff back on when needed.
This may seem obvious but we learned our lesson a number of years ago from our sailmaker who was an accomplished international racer. His comment to us was we needed to lighten up the boat if we wanted to race competitively. Our reply was it was already quite empty. His response was "Mark the hull water line location with tape and then take EVERYTHING off the boat that is not permanently attached." Needless to say it was a real eye opener. You've already started this process.
As part of the process for our ORC certificate for Vic Maui they did a a bunch of incline measurements with weights held outboard with the spinnaker pole. The boat had to be in the "light weight" condition which is EVERYTHING removed. Empty water tank, full fuel tank. Then they calculate the speed potential of your boat and give you your rating. After the measurement you can put stuff back on but nothing can be removed. Things like battery reduction has to happen before measurement.
Even if all you are going to do is go cruising emptying the boat and then reloading is probably a useful exercise.
D
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Post by hoppy on Mar 5, 2017 21:12:32 GMT
I also see you have some nice blue fabric cushions everywhere - expect them to become all possible colors covered with everything that you can't even imagine now - leather covers a lot better... There was a single guy onboard for 5 years, so they have all sorts of stains on them now. It does remind me that I was thinking of taking all of the covers off to get cleaned once Jessabbe arrived.
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Post by hoppy on Mar 5, 2017 21:21:55 GMT
You have to decide what kind of sailor you are. A) Long term Cruiser. You spend a lot of time (perhaps measured in months) on the boat and need all your stuff. B) Cruiser. Local cruising, short to medium distance. C) Combo cruiser / racer. D) Combo racer / cruiser. E) Racer. Weight is death for boat speed so things have to go as you go down the list. You can always put stuff back on when needed. This may seem obvious but we learned our lesson a number of years ago from our sailmaker who was an accomplished international racer. His comment to us was we needed to lighten up the boat if we wanted to race competitively. Our reply was it was already quite empty. His response was "Mark the hull water line location with tape and then take EVERYTHING off the boat that is not permanently attached." Needless to say it was a real eye opener. You've already started this process. As part of the process for our ORC certificate for Vic Maui they did a a bunch of incline measurements with weights held outboard with the spinnaker pole. The boat had to be in the "light weight" condition which is EVERYTHING removed. Empty water tank, full fuel tank. Then they calculate the speed potential of your boat and give you your rating. After the measurement you can put stuff back on but nothing can be removed. Things like battery reduction has to happen before measurement. Even if all you are going to do is go cruising emptying the boat and then reloading is probably a useful exercise. D For now I will aim for "D) Combo racer / cruiser." I wanted to mark the waterline before I started this process, but on day 1 there was a 20knot breeze and the boat was healing a little. I suppose that the big reason for lightening at measurement time is that if the boat is lighter it sits higher in the water reducing it's waterline and therfore lowering its speed potential and rating.
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Post by hoppy on Mar 5, 2017 21:28:57 GMT
The other day I was introduced to a guy who works for a rigger. His first comment when he looked towards Jessabbe was "the rig looked inverted". At first I was confused but then I realised he meant that the mast was tilting forward :0
I don't know if this is because I have not tightened the backstay enough since it was refitted after shipping or if it's been like that since the standing rigging was changed.
I was always planning to get a rigger onboard to do tuning and now it feels a bit more "urgent"
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Post by seattle519 on Mar 5, 2017 22:43:47 GMT
In our neck of the woods the term "inverted" has to do with the straightness of the mast, not the angle.
Slack the backstay. With the main cover removed from around the mast place your head against the side of the mast and sight straight up. Get your eye as close to the mast surface as possible. Is it straight? Heavy cross section mast like ours tend to be straight. Start adding backstay and keep looking. What you want is the top to move aft and the center to move forward. Next time you are sailing do the same check. The main will tend to pull the center back. In heavy wind it could pull the mast into an "inverted" position, with the center more aft than the top. This is a dangerous condition if you don't have something like a babystay pulling the center of the mast forward. The fuller the cut of your main the more it will pull the center of the mast aft. Our delivery Dacron main pulls the mast back much more than our race main which is cut much flatter. For the return trip from Hawaii I added a temporary line tied to the lower spreaders down to the staysail cleat to pull the middle of the mast forward. It went through some blocks and back to a winch so we could add some real tension.
The angle of the mast is controlled by the length of the forestay. This can effect the balance of your helm. The further the mast moves back weather helm will increase. Think about the mast being located on the stern and then the bow and how wind pressure would rotate the boat about the keel. We increased the effective length of our forestay approximately 4"-6" by adding another toggle in the assembly. It helped us control the shape of the mast better.
Also look up the front of the mast to see if it is straight. Look while it's under load, it should still be straight.
Go look at race boats. Their mast can be quite curved. They then use a babystay to pull the center section forward and two runners (one on each side) attached to the stern pulling in the opposite direction for support. As the wind increases they add tension to the babystay to flatten the main.
Tuning a rig takes time and testing. Getting the balance between the cap, the D1 and D2 shrouds is tricky. First get the mast straight side to side and centered and go sailing. Spend time sighting up the mast in different conditions. Adjust and sail some more. Write down your adjustments as you go along. It's not hard just be methodical. Find a rigger that will take the time to go sailing multiple times.
D
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Post by MartyB on Mar 6, 2017 3:40:57 GMT
Actually what Dean mentions is not hard to do yourself.
Having a mast slightly forward might be a good thing. Locally there is a boat that is tuned to be 1" forward from plum. They are faster than a scalded cat! I also pulled my mast a bit more forward after doing a major tune and testing in many conditions. This alleviated almost ALL of the weather helm I had......I did this when I put a Harkin foil on, as I had to remove the head stay, so loosened EVERYTHING, pulled mast forward, shortened stay about 2", sails better!
I also have two tunes for my rig. Over 20-25 knots, tightened to 20%, under 20, ie normal for around here, 15% per a loose guage. This came about when I did a 20%, gale force that day, sailed like a scalded cat. Better than the 10-13% I was at, not perpendicular to beam......Following week in 4-8 knots, slower than a dead slug going backwards. Loosened rig over next two races with 4-10 knot winds, sailed best at 15% tightness. Then started playing with back stay and mini stay tightness too. You do figure out where you want the rig for given day race.
Doing offshore where you technically can not adjust the rig other than back stay......I'd probably go with 20, maybe 18.....would also depend upon how long the offshore race was to be, along with weather forecast.
Have fun with this!
marty
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Post by hoppy on Mar 6, 2017 8:09:00 GMT
Sounds like I have a lot to learn about rig tuning. I got the number for a rigger today but I will first try looking at it myself and see if I understand what you guys are talking about
Marty, when you mention 20% etc.. is this something on those stay tension gauges? Are they are worthwhile purchase? How does it work when you have a split backstay?
Dean, did you carry or ship your delivery sails to Hawaii?
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Post by hoppy on Mar 6, 2017 8:23:53 GMT
Another 72kg has been offloaded bringing the total to 173kg I still have to unload the book, mags and many of the other stuff from the table photo I posted yesterday. Then I need to go through the galley and the pantry to reduce the stuff there whilst still having enough stuff for weekends or staying onboard overnight because I'm too drunk to walk home So maybe 100kg more from inside. Then I have my 6hp outboard, it's fuel tank, spare fuel, the danforth 2nd anchor and 10m (i guess) of 6mm (another guess) of chain and a ton of mooring lines. Then there is the arch and solar panels. I'm hopeful that the total weight loss will be in the 400kg-500kg range which will be the equivalent of 4, 5 or 6 crew I guess that will be a decent performance gain without spending a cent
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Post by seattle519 on Mar 6, 2017 17:44:28 GMT
Dean, did you carry or ship your delivery sails to Hawaii? We carried 12 racing sails plus the two storm sails to Hawaii. Delivery sails were shipped to Hawaii and a bunch of the race sails were shipped back to the main land. We used 9 of the 12 race sails. Never needed the storm sails as max wind was around 40 knots. We blew up 2 spinnakers at night in 30+ squalls and heavily damaged the main. Due to the confused seas the equipment wear rate in the open ocean must be something like 10X. D
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Post by MartyB on Mar 6, 2017 20:01:09 GMT
The percentages at the.amount to breaking strength of the wire. Yes, the loos gauge will have a place you tighten wire too. You will probably need a PT3, ~200$ U.S.. the smaller two are around $120. I doubt you have wire less than 1/4". I use a guide put out by Ulman sails. Most sail makers have one, as will mat manufacture. Find one you understand, can follow, then use as a bible per say.....tweak as you need to for your boat, sails etc.
Marty
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Post by hoppy on Mar 6, 2017 21:13:37 GMT
The percentages at the.amount to breaking strength of the wire. Yes, the loos gauge will have a place you tighten wire too. You will probably need a PT3, ~200$ U.S.. the smaller two are around $120. I doubt you have wire less than 1/4". I use a guide put out by Ulman sails. Most sail makers have one, as will mat manufacture. Find one you understand, can follow, then use as a bible per say.....tweak as you need to for your boat, sails etc. Marty Just checked the SO40 manual and I have 7, 8 & 10 mm 1x19 wire, so I need a PT-3m. Of course the local chandlery that has an online shop only lists the PT-1m & PT-2m
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Post by hoppy on Mar 7, 2017 6:10:58 GMT
Another 155kg has been unloaded, including 20m of 8mm chain that weighs 27kg that was attached to my Danforth (still on board). That brings the total weight loss to 328kg and there is more to go. It looks like the trim has altered forward with the bow dropping a little and the stern raising.
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Post by hoppy on Mar 7, 2017 11:30:40 GMT
The percentages at the.amount to breaking strength of the wire. Yes, the loos gauge will have a place you tighten wire too. You will probably need a PT3, ~200$ U.S.. the smaller two are around $120. I doubt you have wire less than 1/4". I use a guide put out by Ulman sails. Most sail makers have one, as will mat manufacture. Find one you understand, can follow, then use as a bible per say.....tweak as you need to for your boat, sails etc. Marty I found some PT-3m's for sale in Aus for between $320-$380USD. If I buy one, I think I'll buy it from the US.
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Post by seattle519 on Mar 7, 2017 18:01:06 GMT
For racing another thing to consider. Remove your cruising anchor, chain and rode. Purchase a good aluminum anchor like a Fortress that is listed for your boat size. Include some chain and a reasonable rode. Store them as low and as centered as possible inside the boat. We put the chain in two small zip up heavy duty tool bags. Three people to move, one on the anchor, one on the two chain bags and one carries the rode.
When racing don't store anything in the bow. We keep the forward sail locker empty and store the extra sails inside and centered.
It's about physics but almost as importantly it is a state of mind.
D
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Post by hoppy on Mar 7, 2017 20:46:17 GMT
For racing another thing to consider. Remove your cruising anchor, chain and rode. Purchase a good aluminum anchor like a Fortress that is listed for your boat size. Include some chain and a reasonable rode. Store them as low and as centered as possible inside the boat. We put the chain in two small zip up heavy duty tool bags. Three people to move, one on the anchor, one on the two chain bags and one carries the rode. When racing don't store anything in the bow. We keep the forward sail locker empty and store the extra sails inside and centered. It's about physics but almost as importantly it is a state of mind. D Lightening the anchor locker is definitely on my mind after seeing that it is more bow down, especially since I am yet to remove the solar arch and the outboard from the stern. I will get perhaps 20m of 8mm spliced with the rode so it will work on my windlass. Need to check the size/weight of my Danforth (or copy) to see if it is sufficient or at least passes the racing requirements. I want to keep the Rocna on the bowsprit for cruising, but as it needs to be removed from it for races, then I'll dump it on the dock on race days.
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Post by hoppy on Mar 7, 2017 22:18:16 GMT
Late on the delivery from Sydney we talked about one day doing the Sydney to Hobart (dreaming out loud) and now I just watch a video about the 2017 race. Quite interesting to watch. Maybe one day for Jessabbe, but first we need to start with some baby steps It was interesting to hear at 18 minutes what some crew are allowed to take onboard with them in the effort to keep the boats light
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Post by hoppy on Mar 8, 2017 11:58:17 GMT
went out for a short sail today before testing the beers in the clubhouse and it felt like Jessabbe was moving faster than before She is still much faster to port than starboard, so it's probably more related to the UV strip on the genoa or the mast tune and not the weight distribution.
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Post by MartyB on Mar 8, 2017 14:18:45 GMT
could be mast tune. BUT, also where you speed sensor is. If not on center, but off to one side, it could read slightly different. OR, you could have a current with vs against on the tacks if using gps.
See how much fun this all is!?!?!?!?!! LOLOL
Marty
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Post by hoppy on Mar 8, 2017 22:23:20 GMT
could be mast tune. BUT, also where you speed sensor is. If not on center, but off to one side, it could read slightly different. OR, you could have a current with vs against on the tacks if using gps. See how much fun this all is!?!?!?!?!! LOLOL Marty The speed difference can be well over a knot and you can feel it. I doubt it's the current as it must have followed me around Greece and now to Aus I will soon take the sails to the sailmaker to get the sail number on and whist there get them to have a look at how the UV strip is fitting on the sail. It looks to me like it has perhaps shrunk a little and is affecting the shape of the leech and also disturbing the air coming off the sail. The UV is on the starboard side. Last night having beers in the club was terrible..... At 5pm the bar was full and by 5:30pm we were alone, because everyone was on their yachts for the twilight pursuit race with the first yachts starting at 6pm.
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Post by MartyB on Mar 9, 2017 5:12:18 GMT
You shoulda coulda crashed the race....maybe....sorta kinda......
Could be headsail as you note then.
Marty
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Post by MickeyB on Mar 9, 2017 7:14:07 GMT
I have never actually mentioned that my SO34.2 is faster on port than starboard - as I assumed it was always just the conditions. Glad to see it may not be just me...thought I was mad.
I can easily get more than a knot on different tacks - so much so that I try to be on a port tack.
Will now try to see if I can see any real reason for it (GPS speed here, no paddle wheel, no current to speak of in Malta)
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Post by hoppy on Mar 14, 2017 1:06:26 GMT
Another 91kg has been taken off, bringing the total to 419kg. The outboard, solar arch, life raft & 100m of chain are still to go…. By the time everything is off, I guess the weight loss will be over 600kg
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Post by hoppy on Mar 14, 2017 8:25:19 GMT
It's a big day today... Another 81kg has taken the total weight loss to 500kg I could not believe that the 8 person life raft weighed 50kg. Given that it is not an ISO LR, it will not return for ocean races, so I'll rent/buy a 6 person in a vaise The forward view is so nice and clear now
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Post by hoppy on Mar 19, 2017 21:14:42 GMT
Taking my sails into Doyles today for adding the sail number. Will get them to look at the UV strip to see if it has shrunk causing the leech to curl up causing my starboard performance problem. I will also talk to them about ball park pricing for race sails so I can budget better for later in the year or the next. As my Harken roller sits lower to the deck (like on Peter's boat) than the standard Facnor and I have a couple of assy's on rollers, I'm inclined sacrifice the 30cm to the deck and get any race sails made to fit on the roller as it will make changing between white and coloured sails at the mark much easier.
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