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Post by hoppy on Jan 29, 2014 20:25:52 GMT
Sailbleu & Trevor has made me curious to see how others have added solar to their boats. I'll start by showing mine. Last year I fitted 2 x 100x panels on an arch.
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chaika
Junior Member
Posts: 20
Country: Tasmania, Australia
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Post by chaika on Jan 29, 2014 21:37:39 GMT
We've attached a small 40w panel on a hinged arrangement that can be moved to catch the sun. It's enough to keep the batteries topped up when we're away from the boat. Attachment Deleted
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Post by hoppy on Jan 29, 2014 23:01:45 GMT
Must be hard work kneeling there all day supporting it :-)
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Post by Tafika II on Jan 30, 2014 2:07:25 GMT
We have two 134W panels on a fixed mount on the arch. Handles most of the charging and topping off, except the refrigerator. We are looking at installing 2 more on the dodger this summer at 80-100 watts each. The aerial overhead give you the location, but if you want to see how we mounted it or close up shots, let me know. Attachment Deleted
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Post by sailbleu on Jan 30, 2014 5:12:36 GMT
Ok , first of all , it wasn't easy to find pics that also takes the privacy of my family into account. I prefer some anonymity on boards you see. Secondly , I wasn't ready to make an essay of my solar power supply, so most pics are taken for other reasons than showing a solar project , hope you understand. The whole construction on the davits was done last spring I've tried to think 3 dimensional because of the limited free and exposed space you have on a boat. These are my new flexible solar panels on the sprayhood. 80 watt a piece They're fixed the same way you fix the sprayhood , meaning they can be taken away (and stored inside) very easily Neatly wired with waterproof connections As you can see, I have - next to the sprayhood panels - 5 more panels. The one on the port side is drawn - that is panel no 5 - because it was recently ( two months ago) installed. Dont have any pics of it yet. I also need to mention I replaced the railing with a S/S pipe (the same as on the starboard side by the way) so the panel is fixed rock solid. It can be put horizontal by means of a foot/support that also can swing to the side (and be fixed) when not needed. Hope you catch my drift. Panel 1( 200 watt) is the main panel, it is permanently fixed. Panel 2 (130 watt) slides to the left to clear panel 1 . But when panel 2 is slided to the left panel 3 gets covered by it. Panel 3 (60 watt) can swing around and also be kept horizontaly by a support. Panel 4 (170 watt) can be slided from under panel 1 (and panel 2 for that matter) Panel 5 (50 watt) is my newest acquisition as I just told you. The arrows to show the motion To give you a better understanding how things work , and to bring you in the mood Panel 3 is operational , a foot/support keeps it up . The support - hooked/ attached to the sterns frame - can be put down ready to be used at all times. The bimini however restricts a proper view of the cmplete setup. Same as picture above Panel 4 is pulled out , it does not need a support as I made extention in the back that will keep the panel horizontal. All panels can be locked in open or closed position , so no hustle when sailing and bumping Panel 3 wasn't set here , sometimes there is no need for it. On a summer midday blue sky ( Belgium mind you ) my powerplant delivers more 30 amps / hour , the new port panel not included. ! The UFO you see on the starboard side is a solar collector , designed to heat pools it can also heat the boiler . Local tests ( no Med. sun that is) have shown it can heat up 60 liters about 3 ° C per hour. North European sun mind you , I expect more output when we get to the Med. Slightly off topic I can also heat up my boiler using my eberspacher that runs through a DIY boiler heating system. All temps are controlled from inside and a 3 way solenoid allows me to choose sun or eberspacher heating. The eberspacher system is a huge succes , 20° C increase every hour. You see , I went to great lenghts to keep my engine out of the picture , be it for power or heat. Regards T
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Post by Trevor on Jan 30, 2014 9:12:46 GMT
Well this is all very interesting. This is my installation as I have outlined in the Hints and Tips section. www.jeanneau-owners.com/hintsandtips/so42dsbimini.htmlSince then, I realised that I could not run the fridge using only sun power. It would run for about a week before the batteries going flat. I decided to increase the installation by one more 100 watt panel giving me 300 watts. I installed this one the front section of the bimini. The original solar regulator was rated at 240 watts so I purchased a 320 watt regulator of the same brand so the remote readout was the same and installed it. I know this is hard to believe but I have seen a maximum of 360 watts from these panels. I did not think I would even see 300 watts from the panels because i figured that was the maximum possible from perfect conditions but I have seen much more than that rated power output. I am very impressed by these panels. The reason I would prefer to use solar panels rather than a generator is because I really dislike being in a beautiful and very quiet natural environment and having to listen to the constant drone of someones generator running. Regards, Trevor
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Post by MalcolmP on Jan 30, 2014 9:14:45 GMT
OK, I am convinced and I plan now to add some panels too, still debating on location as I like to be able to easily fold my sprayhood and bimini etc
With so many different panels do they need to come to single voltage regulator? I presume these are all feeding into the same house bank or are some for ancillary batteries like windlass and starter?
Which regulators are the best? - they seem to vary in price (and quality?) enormously
I think I may start with 2 x 80w but then may want to add more so should I get a single regulator sized accordingly or have one with the possible additional capacity etc
Thanks
Malcolm
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Post by Trevor on Jan 30, 2014 10:00:07 GMT
Hi Malcolm,
You can simply parallel the panels but the feed to the regulator should be fairly heavy as when you start transferring some serious levels of current over long distances, voltage drop can be an issue. I used 6mm tinned twin cable when cabling for my bimini mounted panels.
I really like the MPPT ( Maximum Power Point Transfer) regulators. That is because it works in the range of the Panel that can provide maximum power. In other words, best voltage and current combination for maximum delivered power as these panels develop a no current voltage of about 19 or 20 volts. As you draw current that voltage reduces and at some point a maximum power transfer point occurs. The regulator then converts that energy to the right voltage and current for best charging profile for the battery type selected. Very smart. One regulator is fine as long as it can handle the combined power of the panels. I really like the Votronic regulator because it has a very nifty remote readout (which I like to keep an eye on), is well priced and is readily available off Ebay. I have NO association with that company at all by the way.
I chose to only charge the House batteries because I did not want to involve the FET isolator/splitter and the house batteries are the only ones I drain when at anchor. I connected to load side of the current shunt used by the Xantrex battery monitor so the battery monitor would be aware of the solar panel current going into the batteries. That way the battery monitor genuinely tells me the status of the batteries.
The start battery and thruster battery should not need more than the normal alternator charging. If they do go flat, I would use the house battery for starting and the thruster battery is a luxury anyway.
I hope this helps,
Regards,
Trevor
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Post by MalcolmP on Jan 30, 2014 12:27:14 GMT
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Post by hoppy on Jan 30, 2014 17:54:28 GMT
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Post by sailbleu on Jan 31, 2014 5:41:46 GMT
I'll try and take pics of my controlepanels ,I can monitor all charges, unfortunatly the last panel isn't quite finished , I still have to make and put on the labels for the switches.Again , all was made and installed on a deadline last spring and my S/S (rocna) anchor and swingable table got me through the autum leaving me hardly any time to do the rest. Anyway , Trevor explained the mppt regulator , but I would like to add something to it. First of all , you can connect several panels to one regulator as long as the output current does not exceed the specs of the regulator. However , if you connect panels parrallel , it's important they have the same max output voltage , if not , the one with the highest will disturb the other. Makes sense no . I decided not to go for the mppt's because of the price , and also because mppt only gives you the major advantage when the output is at it's highest , at noon. I have 4 regulators working for me , 2 of them with display , which I modyfied and built into my controlpanels, fairly cheap and reliable These where demolished and built in to my controlepanels. I'm very pleased with them The overall price of those 4 regulators equals 1 mppt. If that 1 breaks down , I would be solardead in the water. I like redundancy and therefor chose multiple regulators . I also have a spare lying around here , what else. My main panel (200 watt) supplies around 40 volts. So a designated regulator was called for. All the others (stern) panels are 25 volts . The sprayhood panels are both parallel on one (very simple and ever so cheap) regulator with digital current monitoring on the controlepanel Remote display 's can be very cheap , this what I used for the sprayhoodpanels; www.aliexpress.com/snapshot/255750934.html ........ works like a charm Aliexpress might also be the place to look for mppt regulators , they have become cheap the past several months.I bought most of my regulator ( the ones with internal displays) some years ago at the time when mppt was still outrageous expensive. My panel 5 ( 50 watt on the port side remember) charges my thruster/windlass 220 Ah battery , so there was need for a separate regulator. www.aliexpress.com/snapshot/307829385.html . This is the one , not really an mppt , but close. No current follow up in this case I also have a heavy duty switch to connect my housebattery to the thruster battery , thus giving me more then 500 Ah AGM power. Most of you will probably think this is an overshoot , but I intend to look around on my boat to see where I can add more panel(s).Remember , I have 2 fridges and watermaker running. I guess the bimini would be a good location to carry a few semi flexible panels, hardly any weight . I paid around 360 $ for both last year ( yes China :-) ) . www.ebay.com/itm/160W-2-X-80W-Mono-Flexible-solar-panel-motorhome-boat-car-thin-light-12V-RV-/281246367965?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item417b9700ddThis is my provider , but I see they've become more expensive. All has to do with the European war against Chinese solarpanel dump prices we had last year. I think my whole setup has cost me less then 1000 $ ,........sofar. Main panel not included because that was on already. That will save hundreds of hours engine running time over the comming years , my VP is well taken care of you see. Hope this helps Regards
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Post by sailbleu on Feb 1, 2014 6:42:58 GMT
As promised some extra pics to explain.
The next 4 pics gives you an idea on how things come to play. There's a cover over panel 5 but the light comming through is still enough to keep the thruster battery fully charged. The panel support can be locked away along the side of the boat .
Here some impressions of the davits solar collection.
My wife and I made this cover fro 2 reasons : 1- to save the panels from wear , as you well know solarpanels wear down gradually , all has to do with the high temperatures caused by the sun. I have no need for solar charge when the boat is on the hard because I frequently get to the boat and put on the 220 V charger. 2-This cover prevents some people getting interested in my gadgets if you know what I mean. Starting from may this year we will be cruising the Med for a few years and occasionally will be flying home for family reunion while the boat remains in a port somewhere , so we will try to limit all sorts of temptations by covering valuable things.
In case some of you where wondering how panel 3 commes about , this is the hinge on how the swing motion works.
Panel 4 and the sliding frame.
Built in regulator for the main panel no 1
This is the new panel , sorry for the dust , but hey , work in progress right. Anyway , also the same regulator built in for the group no 2 -3 and 4 . The bigger display next to it is the current display for the sprayhood panels. The display in the middle is for the Air breeze windgenerator , and the bottom one is to monitor the overall power comsumption , in this case the + 22.11 amps mark the charging current. Both Airbreeze and power consumption display work with a shunt considering the high currents involved. As I mentioned before , no labels on the panel yet.
Kind regards
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Post by MalcolmP on Feb 3, 2014 8:20:36 GMT
Sailbleu's recent post and photos help with an idea I am having about putting flexible panels on the bimini. As I like to fold the bimini I think I may simply have pockets made in sunbrella that the panels can slide into - with a hole (maybe with drawstring) of course where the cells are - but wonder if I may only loose a small amount of potential energy if I actually had clear sprayhood style windows over the panels? , which would be much neater. With the wiring connected by plug in in-line waterproof connections on the bimini frame the panels might then also be removed for storage (both to increase lief and reduce theft)
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Post by sailbleu on Feb 3, 2014 12:13:02 GMT
Malcolm ,
what is wrong with this kind of fix ? It already withstood a severe storm. It's a DIY, but you can also buy these , I just found out.
Wouldn't cover the panels though ,alwaays less sunlight getting through.
Regards
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Post by jdl01 on Feb 4, 2014 23:13:00 GMT
We run 3, 90 ah AGM batteries as our house on an jeanneau 379. We have added an 'Aurinco' laminated 110 watt panel on top of the dodger. It is slightly flexible aluminum sheet weighing about 7 pounds. We laid a 3/4 inch fiberglass pole [cut down tiller extension] on the centreline of the dodger -anchored at the cockpit handhold - draped the solar panel over it and anchored the outboard edges to the outboard dodger handles with webbing and quik releases. The unit has an inline plug on the underside of the dodger. This gives us great flexibility to cant the panel toward the sun using a small cockpit cushion stuffed underneath, the ability, with an extension, to locate the panel anywhere when at anchor, or remove it and store it below. Even in the pacific northwest, this allows us to keep up the battery pack with the refrigeration on full time. The boat is under winter cover, so no pic's until the spring.
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Post by sailbleu on Feb 5, 2014 4:29:57 GMT
It is indeed always better to point the panels towards the sun , even with a cushion. I often see those adjustable panel mounts and also had my doubts in the past in making one myself. Nothing to it , what you need is time and tools. But I guess I wouldn 't be in a position of installing that many panels using a mount for every one of them. And it's not just that , sun going west , current & wind changes would -in the end - make me do nothing but adjust my panels the whole day long. And believe or not , it even crossed my mind to add servo's to possible panel mounts so the positioning would be automatic. Then I got back to earth realizing I'm just on a boat having fun , not in space needing hightec gear.. That's why I chose for a neutral horizontal position and compensate the loss of light due to sun shift by adding more panels. I was also playing with the idea of installing a sort of timer or light sensor that would - starting around sunset - with the help of an override reduce the number of times the fridge(s) switch on The rise of temp. during the night could be recovered during the day when my panels oversupply my needs. Not really sure yet if I'll go through with that , I still have my watermaker to catch the excess of energy at midday , provided I'm on board around that time of course. An alternative is using that occasional surplus energy to heat the boiler , technically a piece of cake to implement , but how far can you go. I still don't know how my solar collector will perform in the scorching Mediterrenean sun , but I have high hopes in that respect. Once in the Med. I expect a peak ( 2-3 hours at noon) of close to 40 amps/hour , if not more . Sounds much , but during the morning and late afternoon that figure drops quite a bit.
Regards
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Post by hoppy on Feb 5, 2014 5:56:12 GMT
It is indeed always better to point the panels towards the sun , even with a cushion. I often see those adjustable panel mounts and also had my doubts in the past in making one myself. Nothing to it , what you need is time and tools. But I guess I wouldn 't be in a position of installing that many panels using a mount for every one of them. And it's not just that , sun going west , current & wind changes would -in the end - make me do nothing but adjust my panels the whole day long. And believe or not , it even crossed my mind to add servo's to possible panel mounts so the positioning would be automatic. Then I got back to earth realizing I'm just on a boat having fun , not in space needing hightec gear.. That's why I chose for a neutral horizontal position and compensate the loss of light due to sun shift by adding more panels. I was also playing with the idea of installing a sort of timer or light sensor that would - starting around sunset - with the help of an override reduce the number of times the fridge(s) switch on The rise of temp. during the night could be recovered during the day when my panels oversupply my needs. Not really sure yet if I'll go through with that , I still have my watermaker to catch the excess of energy at midday , provided I'm on board around that time of course. An alternative is using that occasional surplus energy to heat the boiler , technically a piece of cake to implement , but how far can you go. I still don't know how my solar collector will perform in the scorching Mediterrenean sun , but I have high hopes in that respect. Once in the Med. I expect a peak ( 2-3 hours at noon) of close to 40 amps/hour , if not more . Sounds much , but during the morning and late afternoon that figure drops quite a bit. Regards With all your panels I don't see the point of powering down your fridge at night. I find that with my 330amp house batteries and 200w panels I have plenty of power in the sunny med to not need to conserve power when day sailing and anchoring at night. When I did a 3 day passage, the use of nav lights/MFD & occasional radar, plus less efficient charging under sail meant I did have to run the motor. I think my nav were draining the battery at 2amp/h, so I now have Hella LED units ready to be fitted next time I am down there.
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Post by sailbleu on Feb 5, 2014 7:22:27 GMT
Hoppy , I think power consumption is something individual no ? On times there's six of us. Electrical toilets ,fridges , showers daily , lights (be it all leds) ,all sorts of alarms running like gas, watersensors , fire , anchor/position and so on ,ventilation of the back cabin , satelite TV , etc. it all adds up . All of that while anchoring most of the time. I admit , we could do with less , but this is our choice. But I'm not cutting back on safety with respect to all my alarms installed And I hesitate mentioning my last & recent gadget to create an exotic atmosphere when anchoring Sailing at night requires even more , plotter in and out , radar , AIS transponder , VHF nav lights (be it all leds) and last but not least the autopilot , 10 to 20 amps an hour. I agree , it sounds like an obsession , but I just don't want to use the engine anymore only to supply electrical power or heat to the boiler.I'm just done with that. Regards
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Post by hoppy on Feb 5, 2014 16:39:13 GMT
I did not know you were so power hungry I thought it was only boyracers and superyachts that used underlighting. I hope you have a suitably powerful stereo with a massive sub to go with those lights
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Post by hoppy on Feb 5, 2014 16:40:52 GMT
How big is your house bank?
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Post by sailbleu on Feb 5, 2014 17:31:36 GMT
Oh no Hoppy , no woofers , drums or other noise-makers , we really like it quiet , no engine/generator in the evening. Just a soft music in the background ,coffee/cognac after dinner , you know how it goes . By the way these (DIY) underwater leds are all dimmable. The 3 spots in the back are RGB's so maybe I'll catch some strange fish Housebanks are 500 Ah. Regards
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Post by entourage on May 20, 2014 4:27:11 GMT
Hi all.
We've had flexible solar panels sewn onto our bimini for around 12months now. We had space to fit 4x100w so thats what we did. Waterproof connectors are hidden nicely inside the cover where it wraps around the bimini frame and exit down the side frame. We went for 2 mppt controllers (15A each) - higher input voltage from 2 panels extends the length of day they operate with the stepdown mppt controllers and higher voltages make for less voltage drop.
Yes we could get better performance if we had adjustable panels that point more directly at the sun.... but managing energy input is something i dont want to spend my day doing! So we put up with the inefficiencies of having basically horizontal panels.
We dont get much shading of panels from sails and rigging. We do get a reasonable input but the real question that needs to be asked is how close to the equator do you operate.... In Tasmania (42 degrees South) we will get about 10a in the middle of a fine day in winter and about 20a in middle of the day in summer. However, when we visited Whitsundays in Queensland last winter (20degrees South) we consistently topped out at 25a and had 12-15a for more than 6 hours per day. Our base load with fridge and freezer is about 8a and coffee machine draws down quite a lot first thing in the morning.... :-) So our panels still dont keep up with demand - but they do help.
cheers
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Post by alenka on May 24, 2014 8:06:45 GMT
Hoppy,
Was your solar fit done by Metronix?
When they came aboard to look at my plotters they suggested a very similar setup. Well I think it was something similar, difficult to tell from the sketch on the back of a beer mat. Pricing was also a little open ended as well!
Do you have any other photos you can post of your arch and where it is attached?
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Post by Quiddle on May 25, 2014 7:23:09 GMT
I wanted a temporary attachment on my 36i for a number of reasons: No holes through deck Re-positioning panels on smooth passages or at anchor to maximise input. Replacement with a small trickle charger panel when away from boat ( I don't trust solar regs not to overcharge after a couple of bad experiences. I use five 3M Dual Lock 25mm squares to fix a semi flexible100W panel to smooth (not non-slip) areas of the foredeck directly in front of the mast. This has stayed in situ through 50 knts across the deck. The line to the mast base is just a security tether. I run the cables underneath the s'bord teak grab rail on the coach house roof to the rear cabin hatch then straight down to the regulator next to battery switches. It's not the prettiest installation by any means but meets my requirements and doesn't get in the way. The only issue is taking extra care when standing on the panel at the mast as it is more slippy than the deck.
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Post by hoppy on May 25, 2014 7:49:09 GMT
Hoppy, Was your solar fit done by Metronix? When they came aboard to look at my plotters they suggested a very similar setup. Well I think it was something similar, difficult to tell from the sketch on the back of a beer mat. Pricing was also a little open ended as well! Do you have any other photos you can post of your arch and where it is attached? yes they are from Metronix There are a few photos on this page www.jessabbe.com/page/3If all you want is the solar then maybe my arch is overkill. Mine is designed to allow me to add on a wind gen and originally I planned to mount the radar there which I canned and mounted up the mast. You could just add a single loop and use solar mounts from NOA (Metronix sells) which will allow you to tilt them
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