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Post by kordakiskostas on May 11, 2013 11:54:06 GMT
EDITOR: original photos have been lost from this thread, but others can be viewed on the article at:
www.jeanneau-owners.com/hintsandtips/Rudderupperbearingsupport.html
My name is Kordakis Kostas and I am from Greece. I am working in the yacht’s maintenance for 4 years now in Crete island and I would like to warn owners of san odyssey built from 95 to 2006 about a common problem in their rudders. The problem starts because of the rubber bush between the bearing and the hull. Probably this part of the shaft support is making the vibration bigger and it makes the blade to fail exactly where the shaft is going in. I have first seen the failure in 45.1 and 45.2 which have more problems in their rudder system which I am going to show later with specific photos. In the beginning I thought that it was minor gel-coat cracks but in one of the boats that I used a very good filer to avoid water getting into the rudder I saw that the next year the cracks where exactly the same the next year. When I decided to further investigate the damage I found something like that… Since I found that the area was severely damaged I decided to recreate the area in carbon fibers and epoxy resin. Digging further to create a bonding area I found the reason of the extensive damage. The “neck” and the edges are made from gel-coat without any reinforcement of mat as you can see in the photos… After that I found out that sun odysseys from 95 (45.1) to 2006 (45) and other models like 2002(37), 2000(45.2), 2004(49DS), all 45,1 and 45,2 have the same problem. Until today I have repaired 9 rudders. I do not know for other models and years but I speak according to my experience.
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Post by Zanshin on May 11, 2013 13:47:20 GMT
Many thanks for the report and, most importantly, the pictures! I'm sensitive to rudder problems, as my 43DS rudder snapped off at the hull join, at least that was a different problem from what your pictures show.
Oh, and welcome to the Jeanneau Owners Forum!
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Post by tedp on May 11, 2013 17:07:21 GMT
Thanks for your photos and the description of what you found, Kordakis. Have you seen this kind of trouble on an SO32? Last autumn when I had my boat out of the water I found two tiny bulges halfway down the surface of the rudder. No sign of cracks or other damage shown in your photos. But a local repair firm said there might be water in the rudder. I plan to have it off next winter and inspect. Have you seen tiny bulges or blisters on the rudders you have repaired?
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ubuysa
Full Member
1995 - SO45.1 - Little Roundtop
Posts: 48
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Post by ubuysa on May 12, 2013 14:44:55 GMT
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Post by kordakiskostas on May 12, 2013 21:38:02 GMT
Hi Tony and I am happy to found you present here as well.
This is an issue that is going to be described here as well.
Although this is an problem for 45.1, 45.2, and 49 of the same years.
The problem I would like also to show,
is the blistering problem that all of the above mentioned boats have.
In addition to this rudder problem there is also a problem in the hull.
If you remove the rudder and the ruber bush with the bearing, you will find more defects.
There is a lot of blistering which is under the gel-coat
The pictures are also taken from a 45.2 (2002).
You can see the dissolved (hydrolyzed) grp in the edge but also in the bush nesting.
The main problem is the original filer/glue that is originally used to glue the tube on the hull.
We removed all the delaminated layers of fiberglass and all this filer. Take a look at the size of the repaired area.
The same thing was found in the 43DS.
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Post by kordakiskostas on May 12, 2013 21:47:32 GMT
The first set of photos is taken from a severed damaged rudder blade. Do not wait until you see something like that to be worried.  In the next photo you see that even the smallest innocent looking cracks are to the shaft. Note the fact that this area is made by only GEL-COAT. Look at the shiny surface when I took the first piece out…  So the smallest cracks are not innocent at all… I do not know for sure about the SO32 since I did not have the opportunity to “exam” one. If the rudder have the same bush system I would expect to see the same thing… Sorry…  |
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Post by kordakiskostas on Dec 27, 2013 8:56:58 GMT
This is a new case of the same problem in a SO45/2006. It is not a simple problem.
First we noticed the problem by the sovereign damp meter with high readings.
We saw the rudder problem after a few days ashore in high temperature when water came out of invisible cracks.
This is why we decide to drop the rudder.
The findings made the owner sad in one hand but happy to find everything in early stage.
The following photos saw everything we have found and the way everything was fixed.
You will notice that I cut part of the rudder because I knew what I will find and I was right since you can see the cracks going farther down.
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Post by captbear on Mar 23, 2015 19:38:20 GMT
Hello, Thanks for posting about your rudder issues. I am the proud new owner of a gently aged 1996 Jeanneau International 50. Unfortunately I have discovered the same problems that you described in this post. The top rudder supports are completely rusted away and the rudder broke loose during a sail a few days ago. Fortunately we did not loose it completely. If you could post the pics of your repairs that would be extremely helpful. The link on this post to the other photos no longer works.
Also how did you get access to the top of the rudder shaft? It appears that we have to cut the fiber glass around the emergency tiller access port.
Thanks Capt Eddie Bear |
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Post by MalcolmP on Mar 23, 2015 19:59:54 GMT
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Post by so40gtb on Mar 29, 2015 2:49:10 GMT
Kordakis,
Excellent analysis and invaluable pictures! Thank You!
My 2000 SO40, Voyageur, is an always-fresh-water boat, yet has some cracking around the shaft atop the rudder. The surveyor didn't seem concerned during the 2012 pre-purchase inspection. Nevertheless, the cracking and other faults you are seeing are good reasons to drop the rudder over the winter, as well as inspecting and renewing steering components.
You live in a wonderfully scenic and historic country that I have been away from for far too long!
--Karl
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Post by sleighride on Mar 29, 2015 15:38:52 GMT
Many thanks for the report and, most importantly, the pictures! I'm sensitive to rudder problems, as my 43DS rudder snapped off at the hull join, at least that was a different problem from what your pictures show. Oh, and welcome to the Jeanneau Owners Forum! |
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Post by sleighride on Mar 29, 2015 15:42:57 GMT
I have a DS 43 and would like to know how your rudder snapped off and whether water entered the boat when the event occurred. I am concerned about emergency access from the inside of the boat in view of the life raft locker at the stern of the boat. What caused this rudder failure and how did you repair it? Many thanks.
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Post by lateron on Mar 29, 2015 16:04:14 GMT
Hi guys...........like Tedp I have a tiller steered SO32 2004. Does anyone out there know if the rudder design on the SO32 is the same as these larger boats that have had problems. My rudder seemed fine when inspected this year when out of the water, no cracks or blisters, I am now relaunched though.
Looking at the other older posts referred to by MalcolmP I may be able to inspect the above waterline parts of the rudder fixings through the access plate in the rear of the aft cabin. Whether that may be of any use. Rather worrying post!
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Post by elecco on Jun 5, 2017 21:02:59 GMT
My name is Kordakis Kostas and I am from Greece. I am working in the yacht’s maintenance for 4 years now in Crete island and I would like to warn owners of san odyssey built from 95 to 2006 about a common problem in their rudders. The problem starts because of the rubber bush between the bearing and the hull. Probably this part of the shaft support is making the vibration bigger and it makes the blade to fail exactly where the shaft is going in. I have first seen the failure in 45.1 and 45.2 which have more problems in their rudder system which I am going to show later with specific photos. In the beginning I thought that it was minor gel-coat cracks but in one of the boats that I used a very good filer to avoid water getting into the rudder I saw that the next year the cracks where exactly the same the next year. When I decided to further investigate the damage I found something like that…     Since I found that the area was severely damaged I decided to recreate the area in carbon fibers and epoxy resin. Digging further to create a bonding area I found the reason of the extensive damage. The “neck” and the edges are made from gel-coat without any reinforcement of mat as you can see in the photos…  After that I found out that sun odysseys from 95 (45.1) to 2006 (45) and other models like 2002(37), 2000(45.2), 2004(49DS), all 45,1 and 45,2 have the same problem. Until today I have repaired 9 rudders. I do not know for other models and years but I speak according to my experience. Hello - I'm looking to purchase a 2005 SO45. I currently have a 2007 SO39i. The photos are no longer on this page. Does anyone have photos I can view of this issue? ~Ed |
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Post by shredjim on Sept 28, 2018 18:24:36 GMT
What is the latest on this rudder issue with Jeanneau 45 type boats? I'm looking to possibly purchase one in the near future and researching the potential problems.
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Post by sailbleu on Sept 29, 2018 5:02:49 GMT
Good thing this old post is brought up again , I must of missed it at the time , unfortunately the pictures are all gone , if someone has them in their private storage could you please post them again . I had a haul out last May and also noticed some cracks on top of the rudder where the shaft goes in . First time there so that got me worried . I thought they were gelcoat cracks but according to Kordakis there is more than the eye can see . I did grind some gelcoat away and put some epoxy filler on to put the mind at ease so to speak . But reading this I'm sure my repair has done nothing to the underlying problem . I will make sure to check on that whenever I go diving or clean the hull . I wonder if this failure is correlated with the squeaking of the rudder that most of us have experienced or experiencing . Whenever that happens on our boat I adress shaft >>>quadrant area by spraying loads of lubricants on the joint , repeat that a few times so the stuff can creep in and slide all the way down to the rubber bearing of which Kordakis speaks of . I do remember a topic in the past where posters raised the problem of a squeaking rudder . In one of my replies at the time I suggested to make upstanding edge around the entrance ( on top just below the quadrant , see pic underneath) of the rudder so a small reservoir is created to pour in some oil now and then. The rotating shaft would not doubt distribute the oil over the complete length and also penetrate the rubber bearing - hull area .I suppose this is what the spray does , be it in less quantity . Unfortunately I never took care of it , mainly because that location is extremely difficult to reach , unless you're a dwarf or a midget . Not that I suffer from it myself , but this is also not a place for people with claustrophobic tendencies. But alright , and old topic can work as a wake-up call.Before next season starts I will grease myself , slide in and de-grease the edge/joint and make a dam on top of it or better yet , around it . Afterwards maybe silicon oil is the way to go so the rubber is not affected . I used a picture of poster/moderator Ian QV's outstanding article in the H&T section on how to replace a rudder bearing . My setup I somewhat different , but the principal is the same. Regards  |
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