Heating a 42DS

[Trevor]

Hello all,

I have just become the very proud owner of a 2008 42DS. The skipper suffers terribly from the cold so prior to the deal being done I promised her I would install a heater in this boat so she will not have to endure cold below decks.

Does anyone have details of the factory fitout of the Webasto or Eberspacher installation and where the ducting is run? Any details on the location of the heater unit, ducting of exhaust and intake, and fuel lines and power would be greatly appreciated.

Kind regards,

Trevor

[j]

Hi Trevor

I installed an eberspacher in a 36i in winter.
I probably can't give you any specific information but make sure you check for ducting installed by the factory.
In the 36i there is approximately 2 metres of ducting installed between the aft cabin wardrobe and the fresh water pumps (the area behind the galley)

It is about 80mm diameter, maybe 75mm, grey with webasto logos on it.

It's the same on a 39i I've looked at.

You may also find that there is a hole precut in the fuel tank - in ours it had a blank stainless steel plate covering it with 4 screws.

As it is a bigger boat have you considered a bulkhead mounted diesel heater that does not use electricity?(except maybe for the fuel pump)

It may be worth sending a message to forum user 'rhb' as he once mentioned getting an installation diagram from Jeanneau for his 42i ( I think)

[Mistroma]

I have a 2009 model with 5kw Webasto heating fitted.

Webasto unit is in locker behind aft cabin on a bracket against hull on port side.

Small ducting runs across the bulkhead behind the berth with outlets port and stbd just down from the bulkhead lamps. I think that this smaller ducting continues down the stbd side behind lockers to feed the aft head.

Main ducting runs forward on port side in the void behind locker & hanging locker, cooker, fridge.

Control wiring runs alongside the main duct and panel is fitted on bulkhead to left of fridge opening. It is a small oblong panel that's easy to remove.

Large duct the splits with one part going forward to feed forward head and then forecabin (just above small shelf beside berth).

The main outlet in the saloon runs across inside locker with hot water tank and next locker to come out through a vent (facing centre line, just behind table).

I think power cables are run from battery switch with 20A (poss 30A) fuse in that compartment.

Fule feed come from an off-take on top of the tank and the pump is fitted on the bulkhead beside the tank.

My boat is more than 1,000nm away just now and all schematics are on board so I can't look anyhing up. This is just from memory but I might have the odd picture. Let me know if you want me to clarify anything, some of the above may be ambiguous.

[rhb]

Here's the official factory Install diagram for a Webasto 5000 heater on a 42DS.

Enjoy

Attachments:

[Mistroma]

Thanks for posting that, it matches my description (or at least how I intended the description to read). I've downloaded it for my own records.

I forgot to mention that both fresh air and exhaust hoses are lead right up to deck level to prevent water ingress. I think that combustion air just comes from a short pipe inside the locker.

Now all I need are the electrical diagrams and information contained at back of my owner's manual. I have the PDF at home and paper copy on boat in Spain. Unfortunately, I discovered that the PDF lacks all of that information.

I asked for help on this a while ago but unfortunately did not get any response. I'd appreciate it if anyone has an PDF of this information.

Apologies for thread drift.

[Trevor]

J, Mistroma and RHB,

Many thanks for that exremely helpful information. I have been out of internet contact for a while so hence my late response.

The diagram certainly helps me visualaise the configuration and noted that the height of outlets needs to allow for water ingress.

Mistroma, just to be clear are you looking for the electrical schematic specifically for the heater installation or a general electrical diagram?

Happy sailing,

Trevor

[j]

Jan 6, 2013 23:54:13 GMT Trevor said:

Mistroma, just to be clear are you looking for the electrical schematic specifically for the heater installation or a general electrical diagram?

I'm sure he's after the general boat info, there wouldn't be anything in it about the heater a.f.a.i.k.

[Mistroma]

Yes, I was just looking for a scanned copy of a couple of pages from end of the Owner's Manual. I left my paper copy on-board (>1,000nm away) and discovered that the PDF doesn't have any of the wiring diagrams from the end section.

I'm putting a small inverter into the aft cabin and running the wiring through to a changeover switch in the saloon. So I was looking for the page that shows the AC wiring for the saloon & list on back with connections. I'd appreciate a scanned copy if anyone has that page.

I have the Webasto AirTop 5000 heater installed and it worked very well during the sailing season in Scotland. It struggled a bit in winter when temp. was well under -5Deg. C but I doubt that will be relevant.

Access to install should be fine as you can get into the section behind the berth. The panels on either side of aft cabin hinge down once you undo the screws on top. The back of the aft hanging locker is held by 6 screws. So everything can be reached, just a bit fiddly in places.

It does use quite a bit of power and I found that standard 3x110Ah batteries weren't really up to it. They are OK for weekends but not for long cruises. I fitted 4x Trojan T105s (450Ah) and these were fine. However, I don't make much use of heating now as the boat is in Spain.

[rxc]

Mistroma,

Slightly off-topic - where did you buy the Trojan batteries in the UK? I don't need a new set, yet, but it is never bad to plan, and I do plan to cruise the UK area again next year.

[Mistroma]

I'll double-check but think it was Tayna. They had a very good deal on T105s and I also got a further discount that meant I paid about £120 each, making them about £1.07 /Ah. Still same price £123.77 delivered (less if you get a discount)

I was buying another small battery at the same time and had an idea and ordered the first small battery by itself. No loss as delivery was calc'd per battery anyway. Sure enough, I got an email saying that new customers could get a discount on next order. I just had to "Friend" them on FaceBook to get the code (suspect you can just do it without ordering). I went straight back online and ordered the T105s (only saved ~£14 but better than nothing).

They arrived very quickly and datestamps showed that they had been made in US about 2-3 months earlier and filled in UK just before despatch to me).

I considered other batteries such as Trojan marine batteries. But their tech. guys confirmed that T105s had 2 x life (based on graphs they sent). T105s didn't really work out much more expensive than leisure batteries. Only problem was re-building the battery box to get a bit of extra height.

[Mistroma]

Just checked and I did get T105s from www.tayna.co.uk but prices on www.batterymegastore.co.uk were almost identical. I used Tayna because I had bought batteries from them many years ago. The extra 2%-3% discount does make them the cheaper option, if you can get it via Facebook.

Attached file shows why I didn't choose other Trojan batteries.

e.g. 24-TMX is more expensive, has lower Ah and expected to last half the cycles you'd get from a T105.

Attachments:

[rxc]

Thanks. My T-125s are in their 6th year, with no sign of problems, but I may decide to buy new ones next time I am in the UK. They seems to be better priced up there than in France. And, since this price includes delivery, I would just have to site in a convenient marina and wait for them to bring them to me, and take the old ones away.

I have used Trojans for over 15 years, and can't say too much good about them. They just work well, and keep working well. It also helps to keep track of their status and water level. Also, I rarely discharge below about 60%

[Trevor]

Hello again on this subject,

I have ordered all of the bits to install this heater thanks to RHB for the plan diagram of the heater for an SO42DS.

Would anyone have a photo of the actual Webasto heater installation in the rear of the boat behind the aft cabin? I will make a bracket to support the heater but I do not know what it attaches to and exactly where it sits. I would also like to know where the 80mm heater hose penetrates the aft cabin bulkhead to go down the starboard side of the boat. I can guess but a picture of the installation is better than a thousand words.

Many thanks and kind regards,

Trevor

[royhb]

Our heater was installed by the commissioning yard as the broker forgot to include it on the new boat order :-)

Anyway, I'll try to get to the boat tomorrow and take a picture of our installation.  The commissioning yard built a custom platform that is glassed to the hull in the same location where the factory puts them.

[royhb]

One other note:  Member Entourage has a late model 42DS with a heater that was installed by the factory.  I'll mention this thread to him in case he has some pix of his install to post

[Trevor]

Many thanks Royhb,

Any assistance would be greatly appreciated. I would like to make the installation as close as possible to the factory or commissioning yard approach.

Regards,

Trevor

[Trevor]

Hello Mistroma,

Recently read all of this again. Is this what you are after?

H:\Electrical schematic Jeanneau 42DS 240v.pdf (142.77 KB)

Regards,

Trevor

[manaia]

Jan 3, 2013 22:19:13 GMT rhb said:

Here's the official factory Install diagram for a Webasto 5000 heater on a 42DS.

Enjoy

Hi all,
Does anyone have this diagram for a 43DS or know where I might obtain it ?
Thanks,

[Mistroma]

May 1, 2013 3:32:35 GMT Trevor said:

Hello Mistroma,

Recently read all of this again. Is this what you are after?

View Attachment

Regards,

Trevor

Thanks Trevor, this is the information I was looking for prior to returning to the boat. However, we flew back to Spain a little while ago and I tried to update this thread to say that I now had access to the original manual. WiFi has been out for quite some time in the yard and only restored today, so this is the first chance I've had to login. Thanks again for scanning the pages.

[Trevor]

Hello Mistroma,

Last Sunday I installed the outlets and ducting down the starboard side of the yacht. Big job but so far so good. I have also installed the aft cabin outlets. I wonder if you can remember a couple of details before I continue the installation this weekend.

1. Can you remember if the 60mm (smaller) heater hose that travels across the aft cabin bulkhead is run high up near the rudder quadrant or low down near the hull?
2. Can you remember exactly where the outlet is positioned in the aft head? I would really like to locate it in the correct "factory" position.
3. Is the bracket the heater is mounted on in the aft locker area secured to the stringer that runs along the side of the hull or is it fixed some other way?
4. Does the combustion exhaust outlet on your boat exit the hull behind the fuel overflow outlet on the starboard rear quarter or high on the transom? I have seen both methods and wonder which is best?
5. Does the intake air simply suck air from the locker or is the air drawn through a 90mm hose from the transom next to the engine blower inlet?

Many thanks for any tips you may be able to provide. I know these are detailed questions but you may remember some of them and it could make the decisions on the weekend less traumatic!

Regards,

Trevor

[Mistroma]

1. The hose runs across the top of the access hatch on stbd side of bulkhead behind berth in aft cabin. Then is goes below the quadrant, fitting in the gap between rudder shaft & bulkhead. Pretty straight run, I think. I'll double-check tomorrow.

2. See attached pictures from outside & inside the locker (it's at bottom corner of the locker in the heads).


  
Attachment DeletedAttachment Deleted

3. I think it is below the stringer and on a plinth. I'll try to get a picture

4. Exhaust is a couple of inches aft of the tank vent and is much lower down (I'll measure the distance). It's a 90 deg elbow with a swan neck in the pipe run. This means any drips don't run down the hull. I think you'd get a lot of brown staining if it was on the transom. So side of hull seems better.

5. Yes, similar to engine fan. The trunking runs up in a swan neck (I think) and back down to exit underneath the step on the transom.

I'll try to get more detail tomorrow. Run on stbd should mostly be OK. Sections all along the hull hinge down to provide access. You can easily remove the back of the hanging locker (6 screws if I remember correctly). That should let you push a wire messenger behind the cooker & fridge. The vent has a Y just aft of the water pump, accumulator etc. One part heads to the centreline vent in cabin and the other runs forward behind the board with pump etc. I think access forward and into heads and forecabin should be simple (famous last words).

Let me know if you want any specific measurements. I'll probably be ashore most of tomorrow but will try to get time to take pictures.


Read more: jeanneau.proboards.com/thread/2432/page/2/heating-42ds#ixzz2SvqnlAEp

[Trevor]

Hello Mistroma and many thanks for the information.

I am on the boat now and have just installed the 60mm hose down the port side. Just about to drill out the heads air vent so VERY appreciative of the location advice. I did the starboard side last weekend so now I have to install the heater, inlet air hose, exhaust pipe and outlet and fuel and power.

I am a little concerned that if I put the exhaust outlet too low it will be under water on a port tack. That will probably be the last thing I will do as it scares me the most. I don't like putting holes in a perfectly good hull!!!

Any advice or pictures on the actual mounting of the diesel heater would be appreciated but I realise it is a pain to get into that space.

Many thanks for your tips so far.

Regards,

Trevor

[Trevor]

Hello Mistroma,

The heater is now in and the outlet in aft head is done. Tomorrow I hope to put in the fuel pickup, finish the electrical connections, set up the controller and install the exhaust.

One day I'll get to actually switch this thing on!!

Regards,

Trevor

[Mistroma]

Attachment Deleted
I measured the exhaust position to centre of hole as shown above.
1. To bulkhead 205mm
2. From stringer 150mm
3. To underside of deck 430mm
2 & 3 followed the hull i.e. Not a straight line. Adding 2 & 3 should match distance between deck & stringer on your boat (as a cross check).



Attachment Deleted
You can see that the heater is mounted on a large plinth. It's approx. 25mm or more thick to let the heater clear the stringer.
The heater is mounted on a s/s/ plate bent to 90 degrees. This means that the heater sits at around 45 degrees instead of upright.
The manual says that it should be much less of an angle (10 deg.??). I was tempted to build another bracket to mount it flat. The current bracket means it sits almost level on one tack and almost on its side on the other. I asked a Webasto dealer and he said it was fine.

N.B. The small outlet on the Y connector angles "backwards", check to left of the heater in the picture. I imagine it is tempting to connect it the other way around if it isn't mentioned in the instructions.



Attachment Deleted
The fresh air intake comes in beside the engine air inlet. You can see that it curves upwards and then down again. Then it swings to the centreline and curves back right on the stern before coming forward on starboard side to the heater.

[j]

4. Exhaust is a couple of inches aft of the tank vent and is much lower down (I'll measure the distance). It's a 90 deg elbow with a swan neck in the pipe run. This means any drips don't run down the hull. I think you'd get a lot of brown staining if it was on the transom. So side of hull seems better.

There are pros and cons to each location.. here are my thoughts:
-the majority of boats I've seen have their exhaust outlet on the transom (including ours)
-none have soot staining around the outlet.
-I think the only reason not to put it on the transom is if you store an inflatable dinghy vertically (like you would with snap davits). Although a friend has his dinghy fairly close to the outlet and it hasn't caused any problems to my knowledge.
-If we had put it on the hull it would be very close to a stern mooring line.
-With that said the outlet doesn't put out as much heat as I thought it would.
-It's probably easier (access wise)to mount it on the hull.