Radar Pole for SO389

[frank69]

Greetings,
I've got the Escape on the hard for the winter for some upgrades.  After much research, I'm going with a Radar Pole (Tower) instead of a mast mount.  Before I pull the trigger on ordering/mounting i wanted to see if anyone had any feedback or recommendations.
Narrowed down to  a Garhauer 10'X2.5" pole with a raymarine quantum 2 radar unit, outboard hoist, irridium anntenae mount, sternlight and turnbuckle type radar leveling platform all on the tower.  See attached image.    The complete garhauer unit is just over $1000 USD where a similar kato pole is priced out over $2000, see image.  Finally, the last image is a general idea of how I intend to mount the pole off the starboard stern at around a 70 degree angle to vertical (I'm still deciding whether port or starboard side). 

Does anyone have experience with either pole? ...or does anyone know why the Kato option is more than double the price of the Garhauer?   Any words of experience or recommendations before I submit my order and start drawing mounting plans would be appreciated. 

Cheers,

Frank B.

[eoin2020]

Hi there frank69

as you know sometimes a manufacturer may charge double or treble what another manufacturer charges for a similar product. And you're basically paying for the name. 

But maybe a brief email to both querying their individual specific specifications may answer your question. 

Questions like parent material type; Stainless steel 304 or 316L or Anodized Aluminium etc. 
How are they mounted? Backing plate thickness and size? Pole wall thickness? Is there room to actually mount on your quarter? 

Is there's a gimbal on the Radar mount? If so what are the hinge components made of Delrin, Nylon, Stainless, Brass etc.
If there's running blocks, what purchase ratio? What are the sheeves made of again delrin,  nylon, acetel? Or what supplier Harken, Lewmar etc. 
Questions similar to these should help you form an opinion on either manufacturer. And if both appear to have little in comparison in composition, well I guess it down to one manufacturer charging for their name.
Hope this helps!

[frank69]

Thanks for the feedback Eoin2020,
Good points made and worth an email to both developers before I order. 
Cheers,
Frank B.

[Chris Meyer]

Dec 2, 2022 0:31:46 GMT eoin2020 said:

Hi there frank69

as you know sometimes a manufacturer may charge double or treble what another manufacturer charges for a similar product. And you're basically paying for the name. 

But maybe a brief email to both querying their individual specific specifications may answer your question. 

Questions like parent material type; Stainless steel 304 or 316L or Anodized Aluminium etc. 
How are they mounted? Backing plate thickness and size? Pole wall thickness? Is there room to actually mount on your quarter? 

Is there's a gimbal on the Radar mount? If so what are the hinge components made of Delrin, Nylon, Stainless, Brass etc.
If there's running blocks, what purchase ratio? What are the sheeves made of again delrin,  nylon, acetel? Or what supplier Harken, Lewmar etc. 
Questions similar to these should help you form an opinion on either manufacturer. And if both appear to have little in comparison in composition, well I guess it down to one manufacturer charging for their name.
Hope this helps!

 I am curious how you reached the conclusion that a radar pole is better than mast mount.   $1,000 seems like a lot.   I think mast mount gives better radar performance since it is higher and will look further over the horizon.   

We have a mast mount on our SO389 and are very happy with it.   We have the Quantum 2 as well.

Chris

[eoin2020]

Dec 2, 2022 14:07:18 GMT Chris Meyer said:

Dec 2, 2022 0:31:46 GMT eoin2020 said:

Hi there frank69

as you know sometimes a manufacturer may charge double or treble what another manufacturer charges for a similar product. And you're basically paying for the name. 

But maybe a brief email to both querying their individual specific specifications may answer your question. 

Questions like parent material type; Stainless steel 304 or 316L or Anodized Aluminium etc. 
How are they mounted? Backing plate thickness and size? Pole wall thickness? Is there room to actually mount on your quarter? 

Is there's a gimbal on the Radar mount? If so what are the hinge components made of Delrin, Nylon, Stainless, Brass etc.
If there's running blocks, what purchase ratio? What are the sheeves made of again delrin,  nylon, acetel? Or what supplier Harken, Lewmar etc. 
Questions similar to these should help you form an opinion on either manufacturer. And if both appear to have little in comparison in composition, well I guess it down to one manufacturer charging for their name.
Hope this helps!

 I am curious how you reached the conclusion that a radar pole is better than mast mount.   $1,000 seems like a lot.   I think mast mount gives better radar performance since it is higher and will look further over the horizon.   

We have a mast mount on our SO389 and are very happy with it.   We have the Quantum 2 as well.

Chris

I gather you've mistakenly quoted me😉.

I hadn't mentioned that I preferred either the pole or mast radar mount over each other.

[Chris Meyer]

Dec 2, 2022 22:21:50 GMT eoin2020 said:

Dec 2, 2022 14:07:18 GMT Chris Meyer said:

 I am curious how you reached the conclusion that a radar pole is better than mast mount.   $1,000 seems like a lot.   I think mast mount gives better radar performance since it is higher and will look further over the horizon.   

We have a mast mount on our SO389 and are very happy with it.   We have the Quantum 2 as well.

Chris

I gather you've mistakenly quoted me😉.

I hadn't mentioned that I preferred either the pole or mast radar mount over each other.

I did not quote you.    I was quoting Frank in the original post.
Sorry for the confusion.
Chris

[zaphod]

Dec 2, 2022 14:07:18 GMT Chris Meyer said:

Dec 2, 2022 0:31:46 GMT eoin2020 said:

Hi there frank69

as you know sometimes a manufacturer may charge double or treble what another manufacturer charges for a similar product. And you're basically paying for the name. 

But maybe a brief email to both querying their individual specific specifications may answer your question. 

Questions like parent material type; Stainless steel 304 or 316L or Anodized Aluminium etc. 
How are they mounted? Backing plate thickness and size? Pole wall thickness? Is there room to actually mount on your quarter? 

Is there's a gimbal on the Radar mount? If so what are the hinge components made of Delrin, Nylon, Stainless, Brass etc.
If there's running blocks, what purchase ratio? What are the sheeves made of again delrin,  nylon, acetel? Or what supplier Harken, Lewmar etc. 
Questions similar to these should help you form an opinion on either manufacturer. And if both appear to have little in comparison in composition, well I guess it down to one manufacturer charging for their name.
Hope this helps!

 I am curious how you reached the conclusion that a radar pole is better than mast mount.   $1,000 seems like a lot.   I think mast mount gives better radar performance since it is higher and will look further over the horizon.   

We have a mast mount on our SO389 and are very happy with it.   We have the Quantum 2 as well.

Chris

I have been contemplating a radar mast for our boat, and talking to people that have radar about their usage. I have come to the conclusion that I want a transom mounted radar mast rather than mounting the radar on the mast itself.

I guess it comes down to how you intend to use it. Perhaps if you are crossing oceans you want maximum range to see what's on the horizon, but for the purposes of coastal cruising I think it is far more important to see what is in the immediate vicinity of the boat when you are traveling in fog or at night. It is my understanding that the higher you mount the radar antenna the bigger the blind spot in front of your boat. You may be able to see the island way off in the distance, but you may not see the log 50m in front of you!

Aside from that, I am not a fan of putting extra weight aloft on the mast, and I like the idea of a radar mast serving multi purposes to mount other antennae and an outboard davit.

[frank69]

Thanks All for the discussion thread.  I mainly decided on tower for similar reasons that Zaphod stated.  Not so much the weight factor but:
1. I will also be mounting sat antennae, stern light and outboard hoist to pole.
2. for long runs at heel this particular pole has a swivel base that you can adjust to level
3. reports that pole mounted is better in very close range which is important to my needs.  (I also have AIS)
4. Once pole is installed unit will be easier to access cables and work on (hopefully).
5. Zero chance that the foresail will hang up on radar.

Growing up we had a mast mounted radar on our westsail 32 and never had a problem except for genoa hanging occasionally.  Seems either method works, just depends on preference and needs.

Cheers,

[shenandoah]

Frank69,
We have the Kato poll mounted just as pictured. In fact we modeled it off that same picture. They are very good to work with, will help finalize the design and mounting options. They are available to consult during the install if needed (we didn't need this but were glad to know just in case). The pole is high quality and very strong, we use the crane arm to lift a 20hp outboard and it makes the job easy. 

We did not mount our radar on the pole but use it for antenna and fly our flag from it as well. 

We do not have experience with Garhauer but we did look at them at the same time. My recollection is that they were not as flexible to work with and the product did not seem as strong. We chose Kato and have not regretted it. 

I hope that is helpful. 

Warm regards,

Chuck 

[mdrsail]

My radar pole is mounted on the Port transom and I hardly ever notice it. The PO of my boat backed into something (or something hit her) and the pole is slightly bent. I sure wish I knew of a practical way to straighten it out!

[sitara]

Metal workers/engineering shop with gear to bend pipe should be able to straighten this. It looks like a gentle bend. Another option is for the bend to be cut out and a new section welded in. I had this done on some bent stanchions and the repair was invisible.

[eoin2020]

Dec 7, 2022 19:15:31 GMT mdrsail said:

My radar pole is mounted on the Port transom and I hardly ever notice it. The PO of my boat backed into something (or something hit her) and the pole is slightly bent. I sure wish I knew of a practical way to straighten it out!
View Attachment

Sorry to side track your thread frank69, but as sitara suggests mdrsail, cutting out and replacing a section of tube and polishing it flush to hide the repair can be carried out quite easily.

I've also repaired three stanchions on my SO37 that were damaged when I purchased. I would though ask to see some previous Stainless work by your chosen craftsman first beforehand. 

[eoin2020]

How's the progress going on your project frank69?

[frank69]

Decided to go with the Garhauer 2.5" diameter pole.  I spoke with them a bunch and having it customized with a flag pole bracket, pre-drilled radar and satellite antennae plates, sternlight mount and outboard hoist.  Getting the 10' pole so well above the boom to minimize clutter.  Complete at just over $1000 +shipping.   The pole comes with mounting hardware including base mount and rail support bracket and unsure if that will be enough for a solid mount.  I'm curious if I'll have to fabricate any additions support mounts. 

So far talking with them has been a good experience, hoping the product will be an equally good experience.  Thanks for the feedback and discussions.

Cheers,
frank69  

[shenandoah]

Frank69,
Will be interested in hearing your experience. Our pole did come with a support strut. It came with a base mount, a backing plate to support the base mount, the rail mount, and a strut for added support. 

I hope that helps. 

Warm regards,
Chuck

[frank69]

Pole is installed and happy with the installation and product. Waiting on raymarine tech to make the connections.  Sea Trial in April when she is back in the water.  Thanks for everyone's input.

[eoin2020]

Glad you got sorted and it looks good.