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Post by Evening Star on Oct 14, 2019 1:40:31 GMT
I am in my 4th month of owning a new build 479. Since commissioning, I have been unable to stop the propeller from spinning while sailing. I have a Brunton's Autoporp on a 4JH57/SD60 power train. From our first time sailing the boat, I put the throttle in reverse, but nothing happens. The lever moves, but I feel nothing in the power train. The prop continues to free wheel. I have left it in reverse, put it in reverse and then neutral, and tried stopping the engine in reverse at the request of the local Yanmar service center. All to no effect. When the engine is running, the sail drive operates normally. I have carefully read the operating manual for the SD60, the Yanmar service bulletins and the many threads on this subject. I cannot get a straight answer from either my commissioning manager or the Yanmar service center. Am I getting this wrong, or is there fundamentally something wrong with the sail drive? What is the normal practice for stopping the propeller with a SD60 while sailing and does the prop normally stop? Any input would be greatly appreciated.
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Post by jlasail on Oct 14, 2019 2:16:42 GMT
Hello and congrats for your new boat,
I have a SO409 with a 40HP Yanmar engine and an SD60 sail drive . The prop is an Autoprop. When sailing I put the gear in reverse in order to stop the prop from spinning and so far it has been working well. You just have to remember to put the gear back in neutral before starting the engine.
I have read several articles about how to handle the situation, I.e. leave in neutral, gear in forward mode or in reverse and they don’t all agree on the subject. So for me putting in reverse works well and it does stop the prop from spinning.
So to go back to your question, If your prop does not stop spinning in reverse , I honestly can’t tell you whether it is abnormal or not , on my boat I can clearly hear the spinning when in neutral and stopping as soon as I put it in reverse. In forward mode, it does not stop spinning in a consistent way.
Jl
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Post by jy51 on Oct 14, 2019 8:03:25 GMT
I am in my 4th month of owning a new build 479. Since commissioning, I have been unable to stop the propeller from spinning while sailing. I have a Brunton's Autoporp on a 4JH57/SD60 power train. From our first time sailing the boat, I put the throttle in reverse, but nothing happens. The lever moves, but I feel nothing in the power train. The prop continues to free wheel. I have left it in reverse, put it in reverse and then neutral, and tried stopping the engine in reverse at the request of the local Yanmar service center. All to no effect. When the engine is running, the sail drive operates normally. I have carefully read the operating manual for the SD60, the Yanmar service bulletins and the many threads on this subject. I cannot get a straight answer from either my commissioning manager or the Yanmar service center. Am I getting this wrong, or is there fundamentally something wrong with the sail drive? What is the normal practice for stopping the propeller with a SD60 while sailing and does the prop normally stop? Any input would be greatly appreciated. It is normal for a fixed propeller on a sail drive to continue to spin whilst sailing. Engaging a drive, either forward or reverse will cause the propeller to stop as the engine will act as a break, further more a non moving propeller will create more resistance slowing the boat down, as far as I am aware manufacturers of engines and gear boxes do not recommend using this method preferring to allow the propeller and drive to spin freely whilst sailing. The advantage of folding propellers is that once folded they offer less resistance to the moving water and therefore will not spin anywhere near as fast as a fixed propeller. Sometimes the problem is to get them to fold, as fouling can block the mechanism causing resistance, to overcome this, most people advice putting the lever into reverse, wait a few seconds for the water pressure to help fold down the propellor, then move the lever back to neutral and never, never to leave the lever in reverse permanently as this can put unnecessary strain on the drive shaft and gears. I believe your Brunton's Autoprop is a feathering rather than folding propeller of which I have no experience of but would assume it works in a similar way. So, your problem could be, either; (1) What you are hearing is the normal speed it will spin whilst feathered or (2) A high level of noise indicating that it has not feathered correctly and is spinning too fast. The only way to discover the problem is to lift the boat and see how easy it is to feather and whether there is any resistance within the mechanism, you never know it might not have been assembled correctly! |
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Post by moonshadow on Oct 14, 2019 11:27:23 GMT
Or send a diver over to hand fold/feather the prop and see if it’s working well?
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Post by zaphod on Oct 14, 2019 18:03:53 GMT
First I would ask how do you know the prop is still spinning? Are you sure the sail drive is operating correctly under power?
While it is known that the Autoprop will windmill if the transmission is in neutral, I can't imagine how it could do so on a properly functioning saildrive. When in gear it would have to be turning the whole engine over, which is highly unlikely. If it truly is spinning in gear then the clutch would have to be slipping. If that were the case then the clutch problem should manifest under power as well. You may want to confirm you are getting the correct boatspeed under power.
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Post by Evening Star on Oct 14, 2019 21:16:29 GMT
Zaphod, Moonshadow and JY51, Thanks for your replies. At slow speeds undersail, I can hear the sail drive spinning when down in the main and aft cabins. It's a very specific gear sound. At higher speeds of 6.7 KTS and higher, under sail, I can hear and feel the sail drive spinning from the wheel. I believe it is not in gear, thus able to freewheel and not feathering the blades of my Autoprop. The question is, does a SD60 normally lock the shaft when placed in reverse when the motor is not operating? That is what is not happening. If it is normal for the SD60 to go into reverse and lock the shaft while sailing, then mine is not and that is an issue for Yanmar under warranty. Does this make sense? Thanks again for your help.
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Post by zaphod on Oct 15, 2019 7:20:00 GMT
Zaphod, Moonshadow and JY51, Thanks for your replies. At slow speeds undersail, I can hear the sail drive spinning when down in the main and aft cabins. It's a very specific gear sound. At higher speeds of 6.7 KTS and higher, under sail, I can hear and feel the sail drive spinning from the wheel. I believe it is not in gear, thus able to freewheel and not feathering the blades of my Autoprop. The question is, does a SD60 normally lock the shaft when placed in reverse when the motor is not operating? That is what is not happening. If it is normal for the SD60 to go into reverse and lock the shaft while sailing, then mine is not and that is an issue for Yanmar under warranty. Does this make sense? Thanks again for your help. Yes, shifting into reverse SHOULD lock the shaft. The Yanmar manual states this quite clearly. If you are shifting into reverse and the prop is still spinning, there is something wrong. This is pasted directly from the SD60 manual: When the boat sails with engine is off,
the shift position of the sail drive can
be:
• In neutral position and in this case
the propeller is free to rotate.
• In reverse position:
• To lock the fixed propeller.
• To fold the folding propeller.
• To feather the feathering propeller.
CAUTION
Do not put the shifting lever of the sail
drive in forward position, otherwise the
sail drive could be damaged! One thing does come to mind...on the engine controls there is a button you push (or pull in some cases) that disengages the transmission control and only operates the throttle. It is possible that the control lever is not a totally engaging the transmission, although I would think that would manifest itself with the engine running as well. Regardless, something is not right, and on a new boat the broker should make it right! |
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Post by alenka on Oct 15, 2019 8:17:27 GMT
Just to reinforce Zaphod's point.
Do not push the red button in when you move the throttle into reverse. This would hold the engine in neutral.
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Post by jy51 on Oct 15, 2019 8:18:04 GMT
Zaphod, Moonshadow and JY51, Thanks for your replies. At slow speeds undersail, I can hear the sail drive spinning when down in the main and aft cabins. It's a very specific gear sound. At higher speeds of 6.7 KTS and higher, under sail, I can hear and feel the sail drive spinning from the wheel. I believe it is not in gear, thus able to freewheel and not feathering the blades of my Autoprop. The question is, does a SD60 normally lock the shaft when placed in reverse when the motor is not operating? That is what is not happening. If it is normal for the SD60 to go into reverse and lock the shaft while sailing, then mine is not and that is an issue for Yanmar under warranty. Does this make sense? Thanks again for your help. If you put the lever in reverse while sailing with the engine ignition turned off you are asking the propeller to turn over the engine. The force required is incredible, with a feathering propeller it will become even harder as there should be less resistance to the moving water. So the answer to your question is, if you engage reverse gear and your propeller and sail drive gears are still spinning then basically you can not be in reverse gear! If you were, there would be sufficient resistance to stop the gears from turning. Your problem seems to be twofold, firstly when you are moving the lever to the reverse position it is not engaging the drive box so you need to check the linkage or as others have suggested you might be pressing the red neutral button, and secondly if you can hear a very loud gear whining whilst sailing I believe your feathering propeller is not feathering correctly. |
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Post by moonshadow on Oct 15, 2019 11:40:30 GMT
If it helps, with my SD60 and flexfold propeller I can clearly hear that the shaft spins in neutral initially and then stops abruptly when I put it into reverse as the prop folds. Then stays quiet when I put it back into neutral. This is as its supposed to work I believe. Something does sound incorrect with what you describe.
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Post by tsenator on Oct 16, 2019 4:18:40 GMT
I am in my 4th month of owning a new build 479. Since commissioning, I have been unable to stop the propeller from spinning while sailing. I have a Brunton's Autoporp on a 4JH57/SD60 power train. From our first time sailing the boat, I put the throttle in reverse, but nothing happens. The lever moves, but I feel nothing in the power train. The prop continues to free wheel. I have left it in reverse, put it in reverse and then neutral, and tried stopping the engine in reverse at the request of the local Yanmar service center. All to no effect. When the engine is running, the sail drive operates normally. I have carefully read the operating manual for the SD60, the Yanmar service bulletins and the many threads on this subject. I cannot get a straight answer from either my commissioning manager or the Yanmar service center. Am I getting this wrong, or is there fundamentally something wrong with the sail drive? What is the normal practice for stopping the propeller with a SD60 while sailing and does the prop normally stop? Any input would be greatly appreciated. I have had an Autoprop on my last two boats . My Catalina 36 MKII and My present Jeanneau 43 DS . Both boats do not have a saildrive but rather have shafts. With the Autoprop I have always been told to put the engine in FORWARD to lock the shaft from spinning while sailing with an Autoprop.
Yes that sounds counter intuitive , but the Autoprop is a 'different beast' and because of the way it feathers and is curved it will actually rotate while the engine is in reverse . On both boats I can only lock the shaft from spinning while sailing with the Autoprop by putting it in forward. If I am going fast enough the prop will spin in both neutral and reverse, I would assume its the same with a saildrive .
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Post by manaia on Oct 18, 2019 19:00:37 GMT
I find that you need a certain amount of speed to allow the propellor to feather, usually around 3-4 knots, anything less and it doesn’t work. We have a max prop but assume the principle is the same in that you need some water flow to get it to feather.
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Post by zaphod on Oct 18, 2019 22:06:30 GMT
Whether the prop feathers fully or not, that doesnt change the fact that in the OP's case the prop does not stop spinning when in gear.
I would also point out that Yanmar's saildrive manual specifically says do NOT put the transmission into forward or damage may result.
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Post by Evening Star on Oct 20, 2019 1:41:34 GMT
Thanks for all the input. From all the comments I am confident that I am operating the sail drive correctly, but the shaft is not locking when it should as the throttle is placed in reverse while sailing. I'll circle back with the local Yanmar service center.
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