795 Maximum anchor chain and rode length

[Malcolm_in_the_middle]

I have a 2017 795 with 25ft of anchor chain and 25ft of rode. I'm looking to be able to anchor overnight in shelter areas that are too deep for that. Given the limited space in anchor locker, I was wondering what the maximum length people have in their 795, both in chain and rode length? 

Thanks, 
Malcolm 

[odetta]

I anchor in sheltered spots off the Chesapeake (mud) and rarely more than 10’ below me, but carry a 13# Danforth with 15’ of chain and 200’ of nylon rode that would give me 7:1 in 30’ of water. You can easily change the 25’ of nylon rode you have for 200 or more feet of 3/8” nylon rode without adding much weight or taking much space in the locker.

[lynnardm]

Malcolm

Welcome to the forum. I don’t know how much room you have in your 795. But I would recommend a lot more rode length Of line and chain. At least 50’ of chain on a 795 which helps hold the anchor in the mud and a lot more rope. At a minimum you should plan on a 5/1 ratio. So for a 50’ depth of water you would want a minimum length of
Line and chain of 250’. I have a total of 375’ on my 895. 8 plait nylon line is a good way to gain room for more line if your storage area is limited. 8 plait is very flexible so it folds and compacts into a smaller area. I have it on my 895 even though I have lots of space.

Capt’n lynn

[timbray]

By a weird coincidence this past weekend I finally got around to measuring the contents of the anchor bin and discovered 60' of chain (!!!!) and 80' of line. It weighs a ton and strains the winch. Is there a sane reason for more than about 20' of chain?

[primozt]

Hi,

My 795 has 50 m of chain which is 6mm (metric-sorry), would recommend  8mm chain, 50m is ok.
Remote control with counter and bow thruster control makes my wife lifting and following the anchor very easy.
Would recommend.
There is a lot of space for the chain, I think 75m either 6 or 8 mm wouldn’t be a problem.

BR,
Primoz

[lynnardm]

This discussion has me digging deeper into the preferred chain length. I’ve followed recommendations from some
Of our club old timers recommending a chain about twice the length of the hull. Without going into the pros and cons of shorter or longer chain (or all chain) I’m wondering if perhaps the above recommendation for a chain length twice the hull length might be too much chain. A key factor for me is weight so less chain = less weight to carry around. My 895 did come with 75’ of chain. Which is more than twice hull length. I may shorten it a bit although more research is in order.

Capt’n Lynn

[rene460]

Hi Capt’n Lynn, I think if you ask fifty people how much chain and rope you should have, you will get at least fifty different answers.

If you are on a lee shore in a gale with a dodgy engine, you want the longest possible anchor line with as much chain as possible, not to mention a decent anchor for the bottom.

With a small boat weight is a real issue, especially in the bow, so some sort of compromise is required.  If you only do day trips, and watch the weather forecast, you can reasonably carry less than if you do long ocean cruises where you must take what comes.  And you need to think about the normal depth where you might want to anchor, and the type of bottom.

I have only once used and all chain anchor rode, that was for use in the Whitsundays where the bottom is often coral and will abrade through rope.  Fortunately I was able to borrow the chain for the trip.  A stony bottom might involve similar considerations.

Normally in my previous trailerables, I used about a boat length of chain to provide weight necessary to get the pull on the anchor as horizontal as possible, then fifty metres of rope.  This length was determined by two factors, our local regulations which require a minimum of fifty metres, and the fact that I could get the fifty metres plus a set of mooring lines from one 100 metre reel, neither really good enough reasons, but the result was very satisfactory for my normal shallow lake sailing, with plentiful shelters from all wind directions and a soft muddy bottom.  We never have need to anchor in water even 10 metres depth, and usually less than five, and in fact rarely have to anchor at all.  So we have a similar setup on the SO30i, just all a bit heavier.

Some of the racing guys on the forum have mentioned that they have a minimum anchor to comply with the rules while racing, and and something more substantial for cruising further afield.

So it depends on your normal activities.  I would suggest one or two boat lengths of chain then as much rope as will reasonably fit in your locker.  The normal five times depth as scope is about reasonable conditions, but in severe conditions, let out as much as the available swinging room will allow, preferably all you have.  And have a reel of something heavier in the garage at home, or be prepared to buy in preparation for the occasional big trip where you need to be prepared for more severe conditions.

And have the bitter end tied off in the locker, not as an anchor cleat, but to prevent loosing the lot overboard if you get closer to the end than intended.  Let it out under control on the winch or by hand, and tie it off to a proper cleat on the deck rather than leaving the anchor load on your winch.

rene460

[lynnardm]

Rene460,

Thanks. Good input. A Friend in the club with a boat just slightly bigger than my 895 uses 40’ of chain. He tells me that much chain and at least 200’ of line is more than adequate for anywhere he anchors in Puget sound and along Vancouver island. There are lots of protected anchorages and typically no need to anchor deep. So I’ve shortened my chain to 40’. The 35+ feet of chain I removed is a significant weight savings.

Thanks
Capt’n Lynn

[timbray]

Aug 22, 2019 0:41:40 GMT lynnardm said:

Rene460,

Thanks. Good input. A Friend in the club with a boat just slightly bigger than my 895 uses 40’ of chain. He tells me that much chain and at least 200’ of line is more than adequate for anywhere he anchors in Puget sound and along Vancouver island. There are lots of protected anchorages and typically no need to anchor deep. So I’ve shortened my chain to 40’. The 35+ feet of chain I removed is a significant weight savings.

Thanks
Capt’n Lynn

Hey Capt'n Lynn, when you say you shortened your chain, did you actually do that or find a specialist?  I'd like to shorten mine and I'm not even sure what skills are required.

[lynnardm]

Hi Timbray,

Yes I just shortened my chain a couple of days ago. To do it remove your anchor and rode and stretch it out on the dock to do the work. Carefully use the windlass to feed out the anchor and rode. It’s nice to have a helper to pull the anchor and rode out onto the dock while you control the windlass. If you are not changing the line you can leave it can attached within the anchor locker. When the rode is out far enough stretch out the chain and measure and mark the length you want starting where the line is attached to the chain. Detach the anchor from the end of the chain by removing the bolt in the clevis. Cut the chain at your mark via a hack saw or a large bolt cutters. Reattach the anchor to the new end of the chain. Carefully use the windlass to pull the rode back into the anchor locker. Again a helper is useful to line up the rode on the dock as it feeds into the windlass and anchor locker. Be careful your helper doesn’t get his hands close to anywhere they might be caught and in particular when the anchor is nearing its roller/mount position. And as you will be using the windless to pull the rode and anchor off the dock rather than from a more vertical position on the water be sure the anchor doesn’t swing into the boat as it gets close to the roller mount. When all done hide the removed chain in the hull of your buddy’s boat :,)

Capt’n Lynn

[MartyB]

Anchoring as noted by Rene can be a interesting topic. Much like religion or politics.

I'm one of those sailboat racers that has a setup to meet min race requirements, and a heavier setup for cruising.

Something I would like to point out having spent the last 7 or so years working for a boat supply outfit. When getting the lightweight anchor, I looked over multiple brands, where I could find max length wind speeds for a given anchor. I found generally speaking, an iron 1/4 lb per foot anchor got you to 20 knots if wind.1/2 lb 40, 1 lb 60, about 2 lbs for 80.
Where I work, general recommendation is 1lb of anchor, and foot of chain per foot of boat. Then rope rode to net you a 7-1 ratio.
BUT some brands have their own chain recommended lengths, Fortress recommends 3' with their aluminum danforth anchors....no more believe it or not!

For me in Puget Sound, 30-50' of water depth is pretty common. 350-400+' of rode is nice. A lot of us have 250'. 200 for my race set up, 150 is minimum. Then again, considering one may have to stern tie to a big rock!tree on shore along with an anchor in 100-200' of water, one needs to have what works for the occasion.

I've heard of some riding out hurricanes, with 10' of cable between anchor and chain, as the cable will allow the anchor to dig deeper in softer fine soils, like silt and clay. Better holding power.

For the OP with 50-60' total, I was anchored in what started out at 45', deepest 55' at high tide, yesterday doing race committee duty, had full amount of my cruise setup out! Wishing I had a bit more rode. I also had race anchor as a stern setup, to keep me from moving too much in light winds and 1-3 knots of current.

Not sure from dealing with my own issues, customers etc, that their is a correct one size/ratio/anchor style that fits all per say.

Marty

[MartyB]

Shortening chain is easy! If rope and chain are spliced, anchor end, use a hack saw, BIG bolt cutters work too, to cut the link to where you have the correct chain length.

Adding chain is easy to chain too. Their is a multitude of shackles that can connect the loose ends.

Now adding rope to rope.... yeah one can do this. Reality doing a long splice with three strand, harder yet with 8 plait! This is doable, but many places will not splice old to new rope. Now it's up to you to do so. Easier better, to buy a longer rope! Rope to chain splice is simple enough.

Marty

[Malcolm_in_the_middle]

Aug 20, 2019 1:53:25 GMT lynnardm said:

Malcolm

Welcome to the forum. I don’t know how much room you have in your 795. But I would recommend a lot more rode length Of line and chain. At least 50’ of chain on a 795 which helps hold the anchor in the mud and a lot more rope. At a minimum you should plan on a 5/1 ratio. So for a 50’ depth of water you would want a minimum length of
Line and chain of 250’. I have a total of 375’ on my 895. 8 plait nylon line is a good way to gain room for more line if your storage area is limited. 8 plait is very flexible so it folds and compacts into a smaller area. I have it on my 895 even though I have lots of space.

Capt’n lynn

Hi Capt'n Lynn, 

Thanks for the feedback. I finally was able to take out my whole chain/line on the dock to measure it, and was surprised to find I have 60ft of chain and 80ft of 3 strand line. Much more than I thought, and it didn't take up as much space in the anchor locker as I thought. I think the 60ft of chain is a good length for day trips, but I think I will get a longer line.

When I was using the V700 Windlass to bring it back in, it was really struggling with the line. It was slipping and bunch up almost every 2 ft, and took forever. The line isn't that old, so I don't know if it's just a function of 3 strand with the windlass or the line is not in good shape anymore. The windlass had no problem with the chain. 

So now I'm thinking maybe going with 8 plait line instead, and perhaps having another 40ft of chain with 150ft of 8 plait line. 

Do you have much problem with the 8 plait line bunching up on the windlass? 

[Malcolm_in_the_middle]

Aug 20, 2019 14:20:36 GMT timbray said:

By a weird coincidence this past weekend I finally got around to measuring the contents of the anchor bin and discovered 60' of chain (!!!!) and 80' of line. It weighs a ton and strains the winch. Is there a sane reason for more than about 20' of chain?

Hi Tim, 

That must be standard, as I just measure my 795 and it also comes out to 60ft chain and 80ft of line. Does your line get stuck in the windlass? It took my 25 minutes to bring in the line as it kept sticking, but the chain came in no problem. 

[kerfuffle]

Aug 27, 2019 3:25:26 GMT Malcolm_in_the_middle said:

Aug 20, 2019 1:53:25 GMT lynnardm said:

Malcolm

Welcome to the forum. I don’t know how much room you have in your 795. But I would recommend a lot more rode length Of line and chain. At least 50’ of chain on a 795 which helps hold the anchor in the mud and a lot more rope. At a minimum you should plan on a 5/1 ratio. So for a 50’ depth of water you would want a minimum length of
Line and chain of 250’. I have a total of 375’ on my 895. 8 plait nylon line is a good way to gain room for more line if your storage area is limited. 8 plait is very flexible so it folds and compacts into a smaller area. I have it on my 895 even though I have lots of space.

Capt’n lynn

Hi Capt'n Lynn, 

Thanks for the feedback. I finally was able to take out my whole chain/line on the dock to measure it, and was surprised to find I have 60ft of chain and 80ft of 3 strand line. Much more than I thought, and it didn't take up as much space in the anchor locker as I thought. I think the 60ft of chain is a good length for day trips, but I think I will get a longer line.

When I was using the V700 Windlass to bring it back in, it was really struggling with the line. It was slipping and bunch up almost every 2 ft, and took forever. The line isn't that old, so I don't know if it's just a function of 3 strand with the windlass or the line is not in good shape anymore. The windlass had no problem with the chain. 

So now I'm thinking maybe going with 8 plait line instead, and perhaps having another 40ft of chain with 150ft of 8 plait line. 

Do you have much problem with the 8 plait line bunching up on the windlass? 

1095 owner here. I have about 80 feet of chain and about 100 feet of the stiffest, slickest 3 strand line in existence (maybe from the same roll as yours!). The windless struggles to grip it and it's so light and stiff it doesn't want to fall into the anchor locker. The chain (other than being really heavy) feeds fine of course. 

I'm also planning to swap it with chain + 8 plait, defender.com has some packages that look pretty good. I'm thinking 50ft of chain and 300 ft of 8 plait line. 

[lynnardm]

Marty, looks of good input. Thanks!

Mpgyvr, the 8 plait line is incredibly flexible. It falls and folds nicely in place.

Kerfuffle, your decision of 50’ chain
and 300’ 8 plait line sounds great to me.

All, I still want to consider the 14kg weight anchor that came on my 895. Certainly heavy is better but do I really need to carry this monster around?

Capt’n Lynn

[timbray]

Aug 27, 2019 3:29:05 GMT Malcolm_in_the_middle said:

Aug 20, 2019 14:20:36 GMT timbray said:

By a weird coincidence this past weekend I finally got around to measuring the contents of the anchor bin and discovered 60' of chain (!!!!) and 80' of line. It weighs a ton and strains the winch. Is there a sane reason for more than about 20' of chain?

Hi Tim, 

That must be standard, as I just measure my 795 and it also comes out to 60ft chain and 80ft of line. Does your line get stuck in the windlass? It took my 25 minutes to bring in the line as it kept sticking, but the chain came in no problem. 

Yeah, fortunately, my 795 mostly goes from dock to dock, because I have not gotten comfy with the anchor/chain/line/windlass at all.  I haven't figured out how to un-clutch so I can gravity feed, when I'm paying out the chain/line splice jams in the gypsy, and when I'm pulling in it's exactly as you report, both the chain and the line tend to jam up.  

I'm flabbergasted at people thinking 60' of chain is appropriate, I used to sail a 28' boat in a stormy part of the great lakes, we cared a lot about anchoring, and we had maybe 20' of chain.  Mind you, we often put out 2 anchors.

This is definitely in the more-work-required category.

[lynnardm]

Aug 28, 2019 17:54:56 GMT lynnardm said:

Marty, looks of good input. Thanks!

Mpgyvr, the 8 plait line is incredibly flexible. It falls and folds nicely in place.

Kerfuffle, your decision of 50’ chain
and 300’ 8 plait line sounds great to me.

All, I still want to consider the 14kg weight anchor that came on my 895. Certainly heavy is better but do I really need to carry this monster around?

Capt’n Lynn

PS. I forgot to add... I’m still considering some more chain shortening in my 895, from 40 that I now have to 30’.
Capt’n Lynn

[Malcolm_in_the_middle]

Aug 28, 2019 17:54:56 GMT lynnardm said:

Marty, looks of good input. Thanks!

Mpgyvr, the 8 plait line is incredibly flexible. It falls and folds nicely in place.

Kerfuffle, your decision of 50’ chain
and 300’ 8 plait line sounds great to me.

All, I still want to consider the 14kg weight anchor that came on my 895. Certainly heavy is better but do I really need to carry this monster around?

Capt’n Lynn

For now I don't feel comfortable with anchoring other than during the day right now. The windlass is just too fiddly right now. So the 60' of chain will probably be long enough for that, so I don't have to worry about about the stiff 3 strand. Long term I will definitely change to 8 plait line, although how long chain/line at the point not sure. 

Will be interested to hear about others on anchor weight, mines 12kg for the 795. An overkill for day anchor I think, but not sure about when I get to overnight. 

Malcolm

[MartyB]

Malcolm and Capt Lynne

Reality, both of you can get away with even overnighting with a 7.5kg claw Bruce as I have. 10kg better. Or equal style that can reset if tide/wind changes direction. Sanford styles are horrible at resetting.
Ranger/Cutwater supply standard 225' line 50' of 5/16" G4 chain, 10kg Lewmar claw on 26-30' boats.
Length tho, as noted by many including myself, how deep of water are you in, probably want 8-1 for deepest amount, so you have 7-1 out, some extra in boat. 50' of water is 400' total rode.
I do agree, 8 plait is nicer than 3 strand. Been thinking about this myself. I pretty much go dock to dock. 1-3 times a year anchored off Shilshole bay marina, doing race committee work, usually no more than 20-25 knots of wind. I've never drug! :-) even my 9.5 lb fast set has not drug in 15-20 knot winds. I would not be comfortable sleeping with this anchor/rode setup in anything over 15-20 knots. The Bruce (true one) I'd go to 30-35. 10kg is something I've thought about getting.
For reference, I'm 30' overall, 6500 empty, swag 7500-8000 lbs loaded. I'm also sure my sailboat does not have bondage some of you ha e with power boats. Keep this in mind too.

Marty

[Don Reaves]

I purchased several hundred feet of Buccaneer 8-plait rope from Defender Marine this spring to be used for dock lines. I really like the flexibility. I put eye-splices in each one, and it was kind of fun, but hard on the hands. (Not as bad as double braid, though).

The web page for this product includes this comment, which is interesting: NOTE: Please pre-soak 8 Plait line for best performance on windlass applications. I suppose this will always be the case when bringing in the anchor, but I wonder whether deploying the anchor might have issues if the line is dry.

[lynnardm]

Marty,

Thanks for that additional input on anchors and anchor weight. Going from my monster 14kg anchor to a 10 kg based on your experience sounds reasonable given I don’t anchor our 895 very frequently and when We do it’s in protected waters. I’ll continue to research and see what additional input comes in.

Capt’n Lynn