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Post by Maravilla on Jul 5, 2019 13:53:37 GMT
Any suggestions for a snubber hook/shackle? I have a Spade anchor and generally ride on 100% chain. I am concerned with the loading because the anchor “does not give”. Happy with the anchor, worried about the loading.
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Post by MalcolmP on Jul 5, 2019 19:25:32 GMT
Simply try a nylon rope and a single clove hitch, it will never slip and easy to undo
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Post by Mistroma on Jul 5, 2019 21:20:34 GMT
I've also used a simple hitch but found it handy to just make up a snubber from nice stretchy line, a thimble and a chain hook. It doesn't take long to make and you can buy a chain hook from eBay (e.g. www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10MM-Stainless-Steel-Eye-Grab-Hook-Chain-Shortener/400988311639). I found lots of very expensive devices on offer in France and Italy but a simple cheap hook works just as well. Just keep a little tension on the rope after hooking it on and it won't fall off. No chance of it falling off once it is taking the load properly with chain hanging loose. This will protect your windlass from shock loads. You can also add a lot of surge protection by adding rubber snubbing devices or simply making the line longer to build in more stretch (negligible cost option).
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Post by moonshadow on Jul 5, 2019 22:17:16 GMT
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Post by vasko on Jul 6, 2019 5:32:51 GMT
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Post by Mistroma on Jul 6, 2019 7:20:01 GMT
I did see the type Vasko uses but they were about 40-50 euro in Italy vs. 10 euro for a hook. The other type shown is more secure than a hook but I'd find it more difficult to remove. I just take the strain off the hook and flick the rope to let it fall off. No need to bend down and hang over the bow. I must admit I've heard others complain that the hook falls off sometimes. All I can say is that it it's never happened to me (yet) in about 10 years of use. A light pull on the rope keeps it on until strain comes on the chain.
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Post by jy51 on Jul 6, 2019 8:14:24 GMT
Firstly, your fear about having no give in the anchor, its the chain with its links that give the "give" so to speak, not the anchor, which isn't meant to move, although they all do, the amount depending on the sea bed substrate and strength of the wind/waves.
We use snubbers to (hopefully) soften the blow of the constant noise of chain moving from side to side and rattling over the bow roller. We also use them to take the strain off the windlass when anchored, reducing wear and tear on the bearings. What you use to do the job, really depends on the weight of the chain. A large heavy chain would need more than a simple line hitched to the chain which would work on a smaller boat!
I have a Rocna 33kg anchor attached to 12mm chain, anchored in 10 meters with a strong breeze blowing, it would require the strength of Hercules to even lift the chain a few centimetres. I have made up my own snubber with a chain hook spliced to 20mm three ply with a large rubber mooring compensator attached. Once anchored I hook one end to the chain and cleat off the other running the rope through the second bow roller. I then lower the chain until the rope has taken up all the strain leaving the short end of the chain that runs through the windlass loose. Do not attach any hook or shackles to the chain that needs undoing, sods law says that in an emergency it won't undo!
Most comments here include the problem of getting the hook to stay while lowering the chain, I don't have a solution other than trying to keep tension on the line, my success rate is generally 1 in 3 attempts.
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Post by rxc on Jul 6, 2019 18:10:35 GMT
I have always used chain hooks. I use 5/16" HT chain, and there are chain hooks for that size chain that are not very expensive. I like the hooks rather than something that positively attaches to the chain because I can just haul in the chain when we leave, and the chain hook follow the chain over the roller, and just drops off. I don't have to fuss with it. I don't worry about it falling off the chain when it is under load because it is always under load until we haul the anchor/chain in to leave the anchorage.
Also, I have a second snubber with a chain hook, and I have used both of them when anchoring in challenging conditions, to spread the load between the two cleats in the bow of the boat.
The biggest issue when using a snubber is to protect the line from chafe as it passes over the roller, and bears against the metal parts. I have a "roller protector" that came with the boat, which consists of a piece of flexible PVC hose, about 1" in diameter, with protectors on the end to keep the hose from catching. It the chafe protector lives on the snubber line all the time, and needs to be adjusted to sit in the anchor roller when the chain is released to allow the snubber to take up the load. Not difficult, but something to be checked often if the boat surges in the anchorage or the weather is nasty.
Practical Sailor did a study on snubbers in the last year or so, and they say that the snubber should be pretty long - on the order of a boat length, to absorb the shock during heavy weather. Mine is only about 15 ft, 1/2" nylon 3-strand, and I have never had any problems with it. Works well.
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Post by Mistroma on Jul 6, 2019 19:54:52 GMT
I have always used chain hooks. I use 5/16" HT chain, and there are chain hooks for that size chain that are not very expensive. I like the hooks rather than something that positively attaches to the chain because I can just haul in the chain when we leave, and the chain hook follow the chain over the roller, and just drops off. I don't have to fuss with it. I don't worry about it falling off the chain when it is under load because it is always under load until we haul the anchor/chain in to leave the anchorage. Also, I have a second snubber with a chain hook, and I have used both of them when anchoring in challenging conditions, to spread the load between the two cleats in the bow of the boat. The biggest issue when using a snubber is to protect the line from chafe as it passes over the roller, and bears against the metal parts. I have a "roller protector" that came with the boat, which consists of a piece of flexible PVC hose, about 1" in diameter, with protectors on the end to keep the hose from catching. It the chafe protector lives on the snubber line all the time, and needs to be adjusted to sit in the anchor roller when the chain is released to allow the snubber to take up the load. Not difficult, but something to be checked often if the boat surges in the anchorage or the weather is nasty. Practical Sailor did a study on snubbers in the last year or so, and they say that the snubber should be pretty long - on the order of a boat length, to absorb the shock during heavy weather. Mine is only about 15 ft, 1/2" nylon 3-strand, and I have never had any problems with it. Works well. Pretty much the same as my setup. The rope did fail once a few years ago but situation was unusual. We had drifted around and wind got up onshore with little warning. The chain caught under a rock ledge which meant I only had about 10m of scope in 7m water. The rope stretched in the swell and snapped. I was actually getting ready to lift the anchor and realised there was a problem. Luckily, letting more chain out and motoring forward unhooked us from the ledge. That's pretty much the only problem with the snubber. I didn't even realise for several years that some people didn't like them because they fell off the chain. Not a problem I'd even noticed and I liked the ease of disconnecting it when required.
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Post by Maravilla on Jul 6, 2019 20:00:23 GMT
Do you have a problem with the hooks corroding? All the stainless I can find only have a 2,400 lb WLL. I am looking for something with at least 2 metric tons and that means no stainless I guess.
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Post by rxc on Jul 6, 2019 20:21:02 GMT
I think that my hooks are rated at 2 tons, and I have had some corrode (they are all galvanized). They usually cost less than $10 each, so I consider them to be a consumable, every 3-4 years. I probably should also replace the snubber lines, too, but they seem to be in good shape, and not suffering any distress. I don't anchor in places that are very challenging, any more, and I have become more conservative as I get older.....
PS did an article a few years ago about chain hooks, and they had some "cradle hooks" that had the link sit in a cradle, rather than hooking across it. Supposedly they do not reduce the strength of the chain as much, because of the way that they bear on the links. I looked for them, and I think I found one somewhere, but they were more than I wanted to pay for a theoretical benefit.
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Post by zaphod on Jul 7, 2019 19:12:50 GMT
This is something I need to figure out, because until now I have never had to deal with all chain OR a windlass. I was thinking that just a length of rope with a simple grab hook would do the job for now.
I have a related question though; my 39i does not have any kind of a horn cleat on centerline that I can put the snubber on to take the load off the windlass. There is a U- bolt inside the anchor locker that the end of the anchor rode is terminated to but I am not sure whether it is meant to handle the load. Do I just transfer to load to one of my bow cleats? I would have thought it was best to keep the load going over the bow roller....not sure why Jeanneau wouldn't have given the boat a dedicated cleat on centerline for anchoring purposes...
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Post by moonshadow on Jul 7, 2019 19:41:42 GMT
I think the idea is to have a long length of stretchy rope and avoid chafe on the bow roller. So I use two lengths of smaller line led through the bow cleats avoiding the roller altogether. To allow a lot of stretch and still keep things accessible I cleat the two snubber lines midship after I lead them through the base of the bow cleats.
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Post by iancymru on Jul 7, 2019 23:56:51 GMT
For short stays at anchor I have made a Y shape bridle which goes over the roller and back to a cleat on each side of the bow one side of the Y slightly longer than the other to facilitate a direct lead through the roller. for longer or overnight I have a chain shackle on the chain with a large stainless bowshackle connecting the chainshackle to two of the boats headlines direct to the cleat on each bow not through the roller to avoid chaff.
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Post by jy51 on Jul 9, 2019 17:22:51 GMT
This is something I need to figure out, because until now I have never had to deal with all chain OR a windlass. I was thinking that just a length of rope with a simple grab hook would do the job for now. I have a related question though; my 39i does not have any kind of a horn cleat on centerline that I can put the snubber on to take the load off the windlass. There is a U- bolt inside the anchor locker that the end of the anchor rode is terminated to but I am not sure whether it is meant to handle the load. Do I just transfer to load to one of my bow cleats? I would have thought it was best to keep the load going over the bow roller....not sure why Jeanneau wouldn't have given the boat a dedicated cleat on centerline for anchoring purposes... Under no circumstances use the U bolt in the anchor locker to support the anchor and chain, it is there to tie off the bitter end and stop the chain/rope from disappearing over the bow roller. It is not designed with sufficient reinforcement to take the weight of the boat in a blow, you could cause considerable damage to the fibreglass structure around the area of he U bolt if you do. Not having a dedicated cleat or post to tie off the snubber is always a problem which some have solved with hose piping to stop fray or using bridles to move the load away from the bow roller and on to each bow cleat. I am still experimenting with this later idea on my new boat as I find the noise created as the boat swings around during a wind change very loud due to the roller banging from side to side. One quick fix is to wrap the snubber rope around the bow roller twice, the load will stop it moving side to side on the roller.
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Post by chuckr on Jul 10, 2019 11:07:27 GMT
For the past 12 years and who knows how many anchorages we use a large stainless steel clip hook that clips into the chain and is attached to a piece of 8' 3 strand that has a bit of stretch in it. Never had a problem. A few weeks ago we sat on the south side of Crete with 3-4 days of winds in the 20-40k range and the boat did not move - did listen to the line stretch a lot - what was interesting was the stainless steel hook actually stretched out a bit - not usable anymore except as a conversation piece - but it held well - we also drop a bit of chain below where to the snubber is attached -
as info on the 2nd day of the blow we did add a back up snubber just in case something happened to the snubber and the shock would be on the windlass - nothing happened but then again --
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Post by Maravilla on Jul 14, 2019 20:31:17 GMT
Thank you!
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Post by NZL50505 on Jul 15, 2019 2:42:29 GMT
Any suggestions for a snubber hook/shackle? I have a Spade anchor and generally ride on 100% chain. I am concerned with the loading because the anchor “does not give”. Happy with the anchor, worried about the loading.
Here's my set-up. Works a treat in light and heavy conditions. Note 1500kg hook and anti-chafe sleeve.
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Post by jy51 on Jul 15, 2019 12:39:46 GMT
Great pictures but I have two comments, number one, did you do the splicing yourself, if so hats off to you, all my attempt look like a dogs dinner, secondly I would be a bit concerned that your pulpit seems to be taking the load, in a very heavy blow and sea it might give way.
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Post by NZL50505 on Jul 17, 2019 0:36:21 GMT
Great pictures but I have two comments, number one, did you do the splicing yourself, if so hats off to you, all my attempt look like a dogs dinner, secondly I would be a bit concerned that your pulpit seems to be taking the load, in a very heavy blow and sea it might give way.
No I had the splicing done by a rope pro!
Yes there is a small amount of deflection around the pulpit but I've worked on the basis it's so slight that the lateral load is very small. But next time there is a decent load on the snubber I will check how much lateral load I can feel and if I'm worried then I might run the snubber over to the stbd cleat instead.
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Post by Trevor on Jul 17, 2019 8:30:57 GMT
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