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Post by NZL50505 on Jun 20, 2019 0:05:52 GMT
My 4JH4AE has a second alternator for house batteries only (Balmar) with twin drive belts and it often works pretty hard pushing out 80-100A on a busy day. The twin belts have evidently been wearing quite heavily and creating lots of dust much of which is visible over the engine bay but some of it has been ingested into the alternator housing causing charging problems.
We’ve previously tried to improve alignment to ensure minimal belt wear and we might try checking that again but I’m not sure there is a big misalignment problem that will improve this.
Have also tensioned to the recommended level but this always seems to result in one belt being slightly tighter than the other after a few hours use - despite being identical sizes.
So I’m wondering about one of those wide single belts like you see on automotive setups and some boats?
Anyone else had this problem and solved it?
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Post by Trevor on Jun 20, 2019 0:46:07 GMT
Hello, we have a single Balmar 120 Amp alternator in place of the original using the same belt. It does create belt dust below the engine and I have considered a serpentine belt system but haven’t thought it worth the hassle. We rarely load the alternator up but sometimes it does happen for instance when using the microwave through the inverter.
We will be replacing the belt soon and will keep an eye on the condition of the belt periodically.
Regards
Trevor
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Post by moonshadow on Jun 20, 2019 2:34:49 GMT
My engine is a 2913 4JH5E that came with a wide serpentine belt. No noticbenbelt dust. But One idea that might be easier than changing the belt is to change out the regulator for one that is kinder to the belt. I added the external Balmar kit with the 614 regulator. This can be set to gradually load the alternator and gradually ramp up the load over a short period of time. It can also lower the load to a personally set output limit. I made the change when I went to batteries that accept a high charge rate.
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Post by mikebz on Jun 20, 2019 13:13:49 GMT
I had this problem (quite badly - the belt wore so fast that I had to keep adjusting the tension) on my MD2020 after fitting a Sterling A2B charger. Not a fault of the A2B, it's simply doing what it is supposed to (higher output voltage than the standard regulator = more amps = faster battery charging) which results in the alternator working harder and therefore putting more load on the belt. In my case I did 2 things: 1) Replaced the belt with a better quality one (from here), and 2) linished the faces of the pulleys with 600 grade wet 'n' dry (used dry) while the engine was running (carefully!!!). 2 years on and no dust at all. |
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Post by ianpowolny on Jun 20, 2019 13:41:59 GMT
Mike,
Just wondering how you found the correct conversation?
Ian
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Post by mikebz on Jun 20, 2019 13:53:04 GMT
Do you mean how did I find the correct belt?
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Post by ianpowolny on Jun 20, 2019 13:54:25 GMT
Yes please.
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Post by mikebz on Jun 20, 2019 14:15:19 GMT
Gaah, just typed in my reply and then closed the browser by mistake... try again.
It was a few years ago so I don't exactly recall the process I went through (and don't understand why I didn't get it right first time since I must have known the dimensions of the original VP belt).
There was a bit of trial and error. First I bought one of each of these, thinking that at least one would fit:
QXPZ812 Gates Quadpower Belt 10mm x 825mm x 774mm
QXPZ772 Gates Quadpower Belt 10mm x 785mm x 734mm
One was too short and one too long - there is surprisingly little scope for error.
Then I got one of these and it fitted perfectly:
QXPZ800 Gates Quadpower Belt 10mmx 813mm x 762mm
I didn't know whether this would solve the issue, and I still don't know whether it was changing the belt or linishing the pulleys (or a combination of the two) which did it. I was very relieved though since it was generating a lot of black dust before this.
I still have the non-fitting belts sitting on my desk if anyone has a use for either of them...
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Post by ianpowolny on Jun 20, 2019 14:39:19 GMT
Mike,
Interesting. I just rolled my spare belt and got a length of 1175mm x 13mm. Bearing Shop has exactly this length so will buy one from them. We have a Yanmar 4JH4-TE.
Thanks for the help, Ian
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Post by lennies on Jun 20, 2019 14:45:09 GMT
Basic belt science is this. When you have twin belts, they need to be purchased as a set (matched pair) as packaged from the mfg. Buying them as 2 separate parts will not get you two of the same size belt. Thus one will work harder than the other and not share the load equally. This equals shorter life span. Hopefully you can find a mfg that offers your size in a true twin pack.
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Post by mikebz on Jun 20, 2019 15:27:20 GMT
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Post by ForGrinsToo on Jun 20, 2019 20:06:10 GMT
Back in the day, we used belt dressing to lubricate the v-belt, to keep it sufficiently soft, and to minimize dust creation. But I understand that the way modern belts are made, especially the serpentine, belt dressing can actually cause premature failure of the belt. I've had essentially no belt dust in the engine compartment since replacing at the beginning of last season. Alignment, tension, age - and the pulley surfaces (which I hadn't really thought about), not to mention quality of the belt.
Geoff
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Post by ianpowolny on Jun 22, 2019 11:56:36 GMT
Mike,
Had an interesting email conversation with Bearing Shop. They suggested that I go for a XPA belt if I’m not putting a high torque through the belt. I’m guessing our Hitachi 80 amp alternator isn't really high torque. At £7 each I think I’ll just add a belt change to the oil change regime.
Ian
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Post by NZL50505 on Jun 23, 2019 7:25:26 GMT
I’ve asked my engineer to polish ‘dress’ the pulleys and also replace with matching pair of high torque belts. See if that improves dust buildup.
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Post by mikebz on Jun 24, 2019 10:00:54 GMT
Had an interesting email conversation with Bearing Shop. They suggested that I go for a XPA belt if I’m not putting a high torque through the belt. I’m guessing our Hitachi 80 amp alternator isn't really high torque. At £7 each I think I’ll just add a belt change to the oil change regime. OK. I went for the 'Q' version because I wanted to try something different due to the problem I was having with dust. It cost me £9 extra but I'm not too bothered about that in the grand scheme of things  |
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Post by ianpowolny on Jul 1, 2019 17:35:09 GMT
Had an interesting email conversation with Bearing Shop. They suggested that I go for a XPA belt if I’m not putting a high torque through the belt. I’m guessing our Hitachi 80 amp alternator isn't really high torque. At £7 each I think I’ll just add a belt change to the oil change regime. OK. I went for the 'Q' version because I wanted to try something different due to the problem I was having with dust. It cost me £9 extra but I'm not too bothered about that in the grand scheme of things 👍👍👍 |
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Post by Trevor on Jul 2, 2019 11:32:11 GMT
Hello, I just replaced our belt with a Gates Green Stripe number 9447HD on our 54 HP Yanmar on our SO42DS. It is a 13mm cogged belt and I am hoping that the dust may reduce as a result of using this heavy duty belt. The size below this one was too short to fit over the pulleys. The size bigger was too long and would not tighten. If it sounds to you like I know this through bitter experience you are right..  Regards, Trevor |
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Post by joconnor on Jul 2, 2019 13:15:05 GMT
Hi ,
We have the same engine and stopped using the Yanmar belt a few years ago , changed to a kevlar belt dont have the name at hand , the new belt lasts longer and does not need tightening as often .
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Post by NZL50505 on Jul 3, 2019 0:56:21 GMT
Hello, I just replaced our belt with a Gates Green Stripe number 9447HD on our 54 HP Yanmar on our SO42DS. It is a 13mm cogged belt and I am hoping that the dust may reduce as a result of using this heavy duty belt. The size below this one was too short to fit over the pulleys. The size bigger was too long and would not tighten. If it sounds to you like I know this through bitter experience you are right.. Regards, Trevor I had twin gates green stripes driving my Balmar and those were the belts causing large dust buildup and uneven tension. Now replaced with a matched pair of something else (not sure what until my electrician tells me) and pulleys polished plus belt grip spray applied - to see if these 3 things reduce my dust problem. |
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Post by Trevor on Jul 3, 2019 10:41:06 GMT
Well that has taken the wind out of my sails a bit.......  ...but I do live in hope that I wont have to replace the belt for a while at least.... |
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Post by ianqv on Jul 3, 2019 13:50:45 GMT
Hi, I also got totally fed up with belt dust (however, I am only running a single alternator). I tried many different make of belts, but all of them gave varying amounts of black dust. I even tried various belt dressings. I came to the conclusion I needed to change the type of belt I was using. I bought one of these serpentine kits from (see link below) – by far one of the best mods I have done on the boat! NO dust what so ever and I have not had to adjust the tension once!! It was a bit pricey at £400 – but worth every penny in my opinion! www.balmar.net/balmar-technology/altmount-serpentine-conversion-technology/Regards Ian |
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Post by NZL50505 on Jul 4, 2019 2:18:03 GMT
Hi, I also got totally fed up with belt dust (however, I am only running a single alternator). I tried many different make of belts, but all of them gave varying amounts of black dust. I even tried various belt dressings. I came to the conclusion I needed to change the type of belt I was using. I bought one of these serpentine kits from (see link below) – by far one of the best mods I have done on the boat! NO dust what so ever and I have not had to adjust the tension once!! It was a bit pricey at £400 – but worth every penny in my opinion! www.balmar.net/balmar-technology/altmount-serpentine-conversion-technology/Regards Ian
Yes, if my 'last ditch' efforts to make my Balmar twin belt drive arrangement fail, then I'm going to make the jump to a serpentine set-up because your experience is what I've heard elsewhere.
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Post by Trevor on Oct 22, 2019 23:36:14 GMT
Apologies for resurrecting a very old post but belt dust has caused me some grief in the past so thought I might update on a conversion to a serpentine belt. I followed Ian's lead (ianqv) as he advised in a previous post on this thread so many thanks to Ian for that good advice. I installed a Balmar 6 series 120 amp alternator many years ago and experienced a fair amount of belt dust. I upgraded to a Gates Green Stripe 13mm belt which I thought would solve my issues. It didn't solve anything. Balmar supply a serpentine belt kit for various engines. My engine is a Yanmar 4JH4 AE which takes the Balmar serpentine belt kit BAL.48-YSP-3JH-A. All information is available on line including a very good youtube video on how to install it. I have added photos of original problem and the finished product.  www.23hq.com/yachtbird/photo/61313345/original www.23hq.com/yachtbird/photo/61313300/originalAfter motoring for over 30 hours I am happy to report so far no belt dust, no squeaking and surprisingly very little stretch in the new serpentine belt. After speaking to many people about belt dust including mechanics, it seems it is a common problem. Regards, Trevor |
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Post by zaphod on Oct 23, 2019 1:01:20 GMT
That looks great! Are those sheaves anodized? I'd almost leave the shroud off to show them off!
You definitely want to carry a spare belt on board, because you might find it harder to find than a v-belt when you are traveling.
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Post by Trevor on Oct 24, 2019 1:22:32 GMT
Hello a zaphod,
Yes they are anodised and a mechanic I was speaking to thought it was a good idea to have them aluminium as they will not rust if the boat is not used for a while. He thought that a major cause of belt abrasion on the exposed parts of the metal pulleys.
The Balmar kit comes with a spare belt which I think is really good thinking so immediately you fit the kit you are already carrying a spare. It also comes with Tefgel to put between crank pulley and and sheave which fits over the pulley to stop dissimilar metal corrosion. It also comes with locktite for the screws. It seems Balmar covered everything.
Regards
Trevor
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...but I do live in hope that I wont have to replace the belt for a while at least.... 
