VW engine in J57

[NZL50505]

Looking at a 2013 Jeanneu 57 and slightly concerned about VW engine as opposed to Yanmar which I’m used to. What’s the deal with these engines? Even if well serviced and reliable in home waters what’s the deal with getting service & parts when cruising locations?

[puravida35]

Might want to review this thread:
jeanneau.proboards.com/thread/7374/marinized-140-jeanneau-service-parts

[rc sail]

Zanshin posted on here a week or two ago that he was having much difficulty finding service and parts for his VW engine that I believe is in his J 57. Perhaps you can track him thru here for more of his experience.

[rc sail]

oops just saw that puravida35 nicely referred to Zanshin's post.

[iancymru]

Arvor fishing boats used to use VW engines maybe they can help with spares etc.

arvormarineparts.co.uk/collections/vw-engine-parts?page=3

[MalcolmP]

Jun 16, 2019 19:51:49 GMT iancymru said:

Arvor fishing boats used to use VW engines maybe they can help with spares etc.

arvormarineparts.co.uk/collections/vw-engine-parts?page=3

Good find, hopefully will be good news for Zanshin too

Not any contact info on that site, but this one does www.transplo.com/GB/Southend-on-Sea/1445113992472601/Arvor-Marine-Parts

And they seem to have good feedback, looks they were fitted to some Quicksilvers too

[iancymru]

Cheers Malcolm seems they both the same site as share the same phone number.

I think Arvor use Mercruiser engines now so wonder if Mercury adopted the engine. My previous boat was a Delphia yacht made in Poland who also make the Arvor motor boats. I noticed at the time the Delphias used Volvo Penta and the Arvors VWs.

[Zanshin]

I am currently stuck in Newport, Rhode Island with my first engine problems on the VW. The problem developed after putting the engine back into commission after it had not run for almost 2 years (due to hurricane Irma). This was in the BVI and I spent several thousand in technician hours while they played around and tried to figure out the problem. In the end I hooked up a computer and diagnosed the probable cause. The boat was then shipped by cargo ship to Newport because I saw that there were many Mercruiser service centres here.

While Mercury has many service stations here in the capital of American sailing only one of these companies will work on Mercruiser marinized VW engines; and I heard through the grapevine that their technician with expertise has left. Since these engines are not common very few dealerships go to the recurring expense of getting certified and thus may not work on the engines.

After a lot of problems I finally opted to contact a small auto shop specializing in VW engines and was lucky to have the owner and engine expert aboard on Thursday. I had suspected the fuel injection pump to be defective ($4700 from Mercruiser with a 2-week delivery time) and although the pump is considered a single unit with tamper-proof screws the technician, Jesse, opened it up in-situ and we found that the top end with the adjuster was gummed up and a circuit had burned out. Since that end of the pump is identical to that found in 4-cylinder VW vehicles he said that he had that part from another pump and would come back and install it.

I had ordered the same pump through Jesse as a VW car pump ($1500) but when he arrived it turns out that the pump was configured for 4-cylinders and not 5-cylinders so we couldn't use it. Since the 5-bangers were not sold in the USA I will have to source a new injection from Europe and ship it here, should it be required.

He returned aboard on Saturday and replaced that part of the pump and the engine fired up immediately. But it runs unevenly and won't go above 1200 RPM so we still need to do some work in it. It will either be injector(s) or the whole pump assembly. Right now I've added a lot of Liqui Moly Diesel Purge to see if that might clear up something.

I should add that I had no problems at all with the engine and have been very happy with it (I live aboard and sail half the year or so and have 800 hours on the engine). It runs quietly and sips fuel.

I'd check around your cruising area to see if there is a Mercruiser shop that supports the VW turbo diesels or failing that find a VW car mechanic willing to travel and work on the boat.

[NZL50505]

Crikey that’s quite eye-opening. I would have thought the one place in the world that you’d have no trouble sourcing a wide range of marine engine services would be North America!

I’m in NZ. And even if I do find a good servicing option locally I’m concerned about how difficult it would be to get support cruising the S Pacific islands for example (which are on our doorstep).

Where’s as a lifelong Yanmar user I could imagine getting support more easily.

Do all J57s have the VW engine? What on Earth were Jeamneau thinking when they made that procurement decision?!

[Zanshin]

The engine is a good and solid one and when VW sold the division to Mercury/Mercruiser I believe that they all thought that they could make a breakthrough in the market. For whatever reason this didn't happen and I feel that this family of engines is treated like an unwanted child by Mercury.

I'm still stuck here in Newport with an inoperable engine despite having tried every mercury shop in the extended area. Mercury simply replies "check our website for a list of dealers" when I ask them, despite my telling them that the dealers that I contacted using their website don't support my engine... That's the downside to a big company, I suppose.

I have a full set of spares for the engine which cover me for most standard issues, but the diesel injector pump is not in that inventory.

I removed the turbocharger yesterday and it hardly moves - there's a lot of carbon deposits which were caused by my running the engine at too low an RPM for too long. I have the blades soaking in oven cleaner overnight and will fix that after drinking my morning coffee and doing my e-mails and forums.

I see that J58 (current model, identical to the J57 in hull design) is now powered by a Volvo engine. For one or two years the J57 was powered by a Yanmar when they tried the 360 docking with ZF Marine but that didn't go all that well, since the system had a tendency to fail when the main prop was pointing sideways, making the whole propulsion system unusable until the problem was fixed.

[NZL50505]

I've actually asked for a quote for a new Yanmar 150hp engine (4LHA-HTP) because I think that if I did go ahead with buying the J57 with the VW engine I'll always be nervous about both serviceability and impact on residual value / sale-ability of the boat. So I'm thinking that a repower to Yanmar would be a smart investment in both peace-of-mind and residuals.

[Zanshin]

I've just ordered a new pump from Germany (it turns out that the 5-cylinder TDI engines were never sold in north America) to replace my injection pump. If I think about it, just about the whole engine is identical to the VW Jetta/Transporter and thus car parts (both new and refurbished) are readily available; I should have concentrated on that initially rather than try to use Mercury/Mercruiser for service.

I spent much of today removing the turbocharger and servicing that. After re-installing the turbo it turned easily in the exhaust gas/water mixture so at least I don't have to worry about the top RPM end once I have my pump problem fixed.

Please keep in mind that when repowering to a Yanmar you need to double the cost of the engine as the installation is involved and complex. The old engine needs to be removed which means removing the woodwork around the engine compartment and lifting out the old diesel and replacing it with a Yanmar. Then the wiring looms will have to be changed as will the Teleflex and control panel. All in all a repower of a running engine is not worth it.

[NZL50505]

Jun 19, 2019 1:53:33 GMT Zanshin said:

I've just ordered a new pump from Germany (it turns out that the 5-cylinder TDI engines were never sold in north America) to replace my injection pump. If I think about it, just about the whole engine is identical to the VW Jetta/Transporter and thus car parts (both new and refurbished) are readily available; I should have concentrated on that initially rather than try to use Mercury/Mercruiser for service.

I spent much of today removing the turbocharger and servicing that. After re-installing the turbo it turned easily in the exhaust gas/water mixture so at least I don't have to worry about the top RPM end once I have my pump problem fixed.

Please keep in mind that when repowering to a Yanmar you need to double the cost of the engine as the installation is involved and complex. The old engine needs to be removed which means removing the woodwork around the engine compartment and lifting out the old diesel and replacing it with a Yanmar. Then the wiring looms will have to be changed as will the Teleflex and control panel. All in all a repower of a running engine is not worth it.

You’re almost certainly right. Maybe I’m just looking to reassure myself that there is another option as I contemplate a buying decision that on the face of it looks questionable having read about your experience with your VW installation!

[NZL50505]

Hey Zanshin

What is your fuel consumption (at slow & medium cruise speeds and full whack)? Reason for asking is not worried about fuel costs but with 738L tank I’m trying to estimate fuel range of J57 - which is a big consideration down here in S Pac.

Thanks!

[Zanshin]

I've motored down from Newport, Rhode Island to Annapolis, Maryland. I used the inside of the Long Island Sound, passed through Manhattan and the East River, motored down the New Jersey coast, motored up into the Delaware Bay and through the C&D Canal into the Chesapeake. The trip took several days of motoring all day (90 miles or so per day), except for the two days off the New Jersey coast - seas were rough and without my mast I was rolling quite heavily and reduced speeds.

I usually motored at 2000RPM doing between 7-8 knots and using 6l/Hr. One day I needed to make distance and ran at 2200RPM and used 9l/Hr doing over 8 knots. On the days I had to reduce speed so that I would reach a certain point at slack tide or when the current turned, doing 1500RPM would give me 6-7 knots in calm water and fuel consumption was 3l!

Conditions were calm and I had had the bottom cleaned by divers before departing so the boat was about as efficient as she would get.

I never ran over 2200RPM, I always planned on doing a stretch to see how fast at what consumption I could get the boat; but it was never necessary and considering the engine redlines at 3800 and generally they say max continuous on non-commercial engine is 90% of max so there are considerable reserves.

Day 1 - Newport to Port Jefferson, NJ. 90NM
Day 2 - Sandy Hook, NJ. 69NM
Day 3 - Atlantic City, NJ, 107NM
Day 4 - Port Lewes, CT. 60NM
Day 5 - Betterton, MD. 83NM
Day 6 - Whitehall, MD. 43NM (couldn't make high tide at destination)
Day 7 - Annapolis, MD. 10NM

Nary a hiccup on the engine and barely any oil consumption.

[NZL50505]

Thanks that’s all v interesting.

So at a useful cruising speed 7-8kts you’re at around 2000rpm biding around 6lph - meaning the 738l tank comfortably gives about 100hrs motoring time - which is about what I had guessed.

But the increase in consumption is pretty steep isn’t it i.e. adding just 10% in engine speed (2000 to 2200rpm) increases consumption by 50% (6 to 9lph).

What’s the thinking on the turbo and keeping it spinning fast & hit enough to avoid coking up? I had understand that for long usage you want to run the engine at 75-80% max revs to ensure it’s working hard and hot enough - which would equate to around 2800-3000rpm - which by the sounds of it world be burning serious amounts of fuel but probably pushing the boat around d 9kts?

And goodness knows what full throttle would generate in terms of consumption and boat speed - both pretty spectacular I imagine!

Or is the turbo spinning at full operating speed at lower engine revs.

[Zanshin]

I can hear the turbo kick in at 1400RPM or so; I think that it won't coke up at any RPM above that.