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Post by gjw0920 on Jul 15, 2009 16:14:14 GMT
Rounding up in all new wide aft body boats is not uncommon. The suggestions on this site so far are good ones.
Keeping a very tight backstay tension also reduces this affect. Reefing early is appropriate. Keeping your traveler to leeward also helps.
If you chose to not reef then keep someone on the mainsheet to dump the mainsail in the puffs.
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Post by Anwen (Deep Joy) on Jul 15, 2009 22:10:30 GMT
I have an SO32 and have to put the first reef in the main at around 17 to 18 knots, and I usually reduce the genoa to the first spot. I don't see this as a problem, and as I read through the posts talking about modifying the rig started to wonder whether being able to have a full mainsail up in 20 knots actually made the boat sail any better or faster? My experience is that with the sails reefed down to get the boat sailing with less heel doesn't really make the boat any slower through the water. A couple of weeks ago, I was sailing in probably 20+ kts of wind (my ST60 wind transducer isn't fitted at the moment) and with two reefs in the main and the genoa to match, the water speed from the log was always over 7kts. With the tide, I was doing between 8 and 9 kts SOG. To me, this is going pretty well.
I'm contemplating a couple of things to improve the performance of the boat: replacing the 5 year old Voile Technique sails and fitting a folding prop. Looking at photos from when the boat was new, the genoa in particular has suffered badly and is now a very poor shape.
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Post by renegade27 on Jul 19, 2009 23:24:39 GMT
2nd race with winds 15-23 kts - first upwind leg we were reefed with HEAVY backstay tension now on (thank you Dyneema!). MUCH better control... 2nd upwind leg the crew wanted to try without reefing - still much faster, under (near) complete control.
The other big differences beside the backstay was based recommendation from OFFSHORE, I avoided the reaction to pin the rudder full angle to pull out of a roundup. Even when I felt a roundup coming on (far less frequently!) I maxed out rudder angle at about 15 degrees - the boat came up toward the wind, luffed the jib some (slowed down of course) and went back on its merry way. No stalled rudder, no drama!
The jib is still a bag - - very flat entry makes it tough to steer upwind, a full, full, head and a hooked leech. New 135 this winter in the plans (about $2500 quoted today - cheaper I'm sure in the winter). The main doesn't look half bad! With the backstay and a LOT of halyard tension we were able to get it nice and flat with the draft where it should be.
Much more to learn - - still sailing boat for boat with the competitors I was neck and neck with on my '88 Pearson 31-2, but now with ~ 34 sec/ mi more to give. We'll get there!
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Post by flightdeck on Jul 21, 2009 0:22:51 GMT
That's the way, pick out all the best stuff and what is easy to change without a fist full off $$................says he who has just spend $$ on a spinnaker Sounds like some of the tweaking has helped and the crew has confidence as well, that make's for a better and happier sail / race
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Post by davideso37 on Jul 21, 2009 7:15:51 GMT
Renegade,
Good to see that you are getting the rounding up under control. We sail a SO 37 in our mixed fleet and in the 20kt conditions all styles of yachts round up. There are designs spanning 20 years and many styles so I would not pick on the current designers. We dump the main very aggressively and try to avoid the rudder stall as you mentioned. I noted the comments from Deepjoy about the change in the Genoa observed in the photos and agree. When I look back at our photos our 135% Quantum cross cut dacron has grown much fuller over the three years even though we have used in only in the heavier conditions. We have had it recut twice and though the exit is flatter it is too deep to point effectively. Our replacement jib is a kevlar laminate 105% full hoist blade that we will set inside the stays. This should keep its shape in the gusts and also let us dump the main with less backwinding. Forecast for tomorrow is 20kts so we are looking forward to giving it a test run. Regards David
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Post by pepmiami on Jan 20, 2010 0:25:11 GMT
I have a SO 32 and I was having the same problem. the main reason I believe is that while heeling a lot and having a rudder so short, the rudder almost comes out of the water making the boat unable to maneuver and then it rouds up.
the best thing yet I have done is to change the sails. I put 3DL from North and made a huge difference the boat is faster and I can hold to reef a lot longer. also I put 2 reefs in the main before I start cutting on the jib. the boat has almost no jib and a lot of main.
Also another good thing would be to change the traveller system to a real one, so when you feel is going to round up, you ease the main unitl it corrects itself and then ty it again, same thing again and again.
at least is the only thing that has worked for me
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2010 23:21:00 GMT
Renegade. Buy new sails ;D. We sail in 25+ kts regularly and had the same issues with the OEM sails on our SO35. I had my rigger put a lot of bend in the mast (no adjustable backstay) to make the sails more flat but with little success. I eventually replaced both jib and main with North's Soft Norm Lam sails and have never looked back. It doesn't take much sail to drive a SO35. Our new jib is only a 105% and that is enough to hit hull speed at 20 kts and even round up with no main when winds near 30kts. If you sail in 18 kits or more regularly you may want to consider a much smaller jib. Although smaller, the shape of our new sail is so much better than the larger OEM Genoa that we're faster with the new sail in anything over 10 kts. - James Agree with flightdeck - sail shape is King! Just did our first race on our new to us JSO 35 (fugly shoal keel version). Winds about 18 knots - OK, just the second time sailing and I was adjusting the rig as the race progressed, but WOW - those Elvstrom sails are bags! We were rounding up every 5 mins or so! 2006 lightly used - I don't think the sails were blown out. Just poor design/ cut, I think. Could NOT get them flat no matter what. I've got a lot to learn, including putting my backstay adjuster on this w/e, but something tells me I'll be contacting Mr. Doyle, Mr. Quantum or Mr. North this winter. Any suggestions on getting these bags flat?! Been sailing my whole life, but none of the tricks I know seemed to do it. Otherwise, and in every other way, we LOVE the boat!
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Post by renegade27 on Jan 21, 2010 22:35:41 GMT
Thanks, James. A new North NorLam is on its way. Probably a new main next year (at least I learned to bend that one around). I'm in a light-wind environment so stuck with 135 - even considered going bigger the sailmaker wasn't comfortable with being able to move the block back far enough on the track.
DREAMING of being back out on the water - over a foot of snow here in New England these days....
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Post by MartyB on Jan 22, 2010 0:00:35 GMT
renegade,
"IF" you do have light winds, consider getting a drifter. I did that for my Arcadia last spring, works super in <6 knots of winds. It is an Ullman product, made from 1.5oz Contender spin cloth IIRC. picks up zephers like you would not believe. Way better than my fiberpath 155, Ullman equal to a 3dl string sail.
The other option if you want a bigger sail, is if a longer track can be installed...........I did this 1.5 yrs ago, then did line control carrs.......much nicer!
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Post by davideso37 on Feb 11, 2010 13:01:16 GMT
Renegade, On the question of sail selection a sailmaker can advise the optimum size for your yacht. In general you don't get much more drive above 165% overlap and as far as sail area configuration goes you will get more lift with more of the sail area in mainsail. You can play around with lift predictions on the web site www.wb-sails.fi/news/SailPowerCalc/SailPowerCalc.htm Here you can observe the angle of heel from different overlap genoas against the extra drive force. I have a light 160% laminate genoa and it is as big as I would want to fit to my SO37. We have a 150% Norlam which is great in 18kts with the occasional dump of the traveller. We watch the gusts approaching and dump early and often the the wind increases. We still do not have enough power for the light conditions and get killed by a Sunshine 38 which has just an extra 300 mm mast height. We are going to fix the mast height problem later in the year so that we can get more mainsail area. If I had done this first I would have not needed so many genoas. Regards David
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pio
Full Member
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Post by pio on May 5, 2010 19:28:13 GMT
I have a SO32 from 2004, keel 1.50 meter. Since the first day that I owned the boat she rounded up in 15 knots wind already. I installed a backstay tensioner (llittle improvement), installed a main sheet rail and traveller in the cockpit just in front of the steering wheel (also little improvement), installed a cunningham hole system (lot of improvement), enlarged the rudder with approx. 10 % (big improvement) and finally I bought last winter new sails from a well known sailmaker (big improvement). The season in the Netherlands just started and sofar the boat rounded not up in winds up to 23 knots. Although I may be should have reefed because of speed. The new main has again a cunningham hole af course. Now it is also worthwile to work on the trimming of the sails. I installed also lines to adjust the genoa lead car from the cockpit.
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Post by flightdeck on May 6, 2010 4:18:03 GMT
Pio, The season just started what does that mean LOL We are getting to the time of year where we don't need sun-screen or hat's. Back to round up's, Pio looks like you have confirmed it, new sails are needed and that looks to be the pick of tweeks for keeping her on the right course...... can you come around and help talking the bank manager (wife) into this great idea.
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Post by tedp on Oct 10, 2010 19:01:47 GMT
I have a SO32 from 2004, keel 1.50 meter. Since the first day that I owned the boat she rounded up in 15 knots wind already. I installed a backstay tensioner (llittle improvement), installed a main sheet rail and traveller in the cockpit just in front of the steering wheel (also little improvement), installed a cunningham hole system (lot of improvement), enlarged the rudder with approx. 10 % (big improvement) and finally I bought last winter new sails from a well known sailmaker (big improvement). The season in the Netherlands just started and sofar the boat rounded not up in winds up to 23 knots. Although I may be should have reefed because of speed. The new main has again a cunningham hole af course. Now it is also worthwile to work on the trimming of the sails. I installed also lines to adjust the genoa lead car from the cockpit. Having bought our SO32 a few months ago I have had time to play around with her for some time, having experienced round-ups described in this thread, and having read up on the probable causes. The boat has the standard 1.50 metre fin keel and rudder. I still have the standard rig without a mainsheet traveller, no Cunningham and no backstay tensioner. In a blow the forestay sags a little. The previous owner however invested in better sails, including an (I think) 120% genoa. Today I went out with the boat in a 12 to 15 knot wind gusting to 18, and did some trials, in a choppy sea about 3-4ft high. Earlier on I found this boat likes the foresail to be reduced to about 100% in a wind over 12-14 knots. If I do so I can keep carrying the main unreefed for a long time. Sailing on the wind I used the outhaul and the vang to flatten the main as much as possible. I had to apply some rudder to keep the boat on course, but not excessively so. In an 18 knot gust the boat started to round up but I didn't lose control - I simply let her come up to the wind slowly until speed came down a little, then increased the rudder angle to get her back on course. Speed was between 6 and 7 knots on the GPS and the boat heeled about 20 degrees. Last week my wife and I were out in a 20 knot wind, with the boat under foresail alone in a flat sea. We carried the full foresail but no main, and the boat went along at about 5.5 knots max, 20 degrees of heel, and she was perfectly balanced with neutral rudder, even in a 25 knot gust. In both cases the boat sailed about 50 degrees off the wind, which is a mediocre result. However, as this is still a cruising rig without modification, I don't think it's a bad score. At present reducing the headsail is more effective than reefing the main. It's less work as well, but I understand you won't get a racer's performance that way. As over here the cruising season is now over and the boat is due to come out in a few weeks' time, I plan to start improvements by adding a Cunningham to the mainsail and a backstay tensioner, to see whether I get results similar to Pio's. If that proves to be insufficient, I'll have a look at fitting a cabin top traveller like the one described by Flightdeck in jeanneau.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1324. Up to now I find the boat is rather less responsive than my old plywood 23 footer, but in view of its displacement of 4.5 tons (three times that of the old boat) that isn't surprising. As long as you bear in mind this is a much heavier boat that has to be sailed upright due to the fat stern, I think it's got a good turn of speed. By the way, I found the Raymarine log, which I calibrated to the GPS running under engine, gives different readings when heeling over starboard (less) than when heeling over port (more). Probably that is due to the positioning of the log transducer.
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