|
|
Post by sabmd42 on Feb 20, 2019 18:32:57 GMT
Does anyone have experience racing using a furling system with an asymmetric spinnaker? I never have enough crew and was wondering whether a top down furling system would make it easier to race with my asymmetric spinnaker.
Steve
|
|
|
|
Post by zaphod on Feb 20, 2019 22:00:50 GMT
I havent actually raced with one, but I am just about pull the trigger on a furling system myself.
From my research and talking to friends that have them, the biggest thing is practice. They can be a bit of a pain until you perfect your technique.
In terms of racing they could make your life much easier. You could have the furled sail up and ready to go long before the windward mark, and then when you get there, just unfurl and go while everyone else is still hoisting. Same with the bottom mark; carry it deep, then furl, turn upwind and go. You can leave it up until you have time and space on the windward leg, or just leave it up if you are really short handed.
Of course on the flip side, if you have a bad furl things can go pretty pear shaped at the mark roundings...
The important thing is to make sure that the chute furler has lots of clearance from your forestay. Ideally you should have it on a bowsprit so you can do proper inside gybes. A lot of cruising setups require you to furl or partially furl for gybing. Of course that is no good for racing.
|
|
|
|
Post by Tafika II on Feb 21, 2019 0:48:52 GMT
I, like "zaphod", I do not race, but 80% of my sailing is singlehanded. I posted an article in Hints & Tips bowspritfurler on our project. You do need to practice (Best with another person to help) to get the system down right, but once you get it down, it's easy and fun! You cannot leave the furled sail up as there is no UV cover. We originally had a sock and it worked very well, but single handed, I avoid going on deck if at all possible. The down furl allows everything from the cockpit. |
|
|
|
Post by zaphod on Feb 21, 2019 2:24:02 GMT
I, like "zaphod", I do not race, but 80% of my sailing is singlehanded. I posted an article in Hints & Tips bowspritfurler on our project. You do need to practice (Best with another person to help) to get the system down right, but once you get it down, it's easy and fun! You cannot leave the furled sail up as there is no UV cover. You wouldn't want to leave it up for long periods, but for the duration of a beer can race it would be fine, although from a racing perspective you dont really want that disturbance at the leading edge of the headsail. |
|
|
|
Post by MartyB on Feb 21, 2019 2:36:43 GMT
Not sure which is easier. Have not done a top down furler. I do have a sock. If rigged correctly, up and down is easy. Dousing too. Or, I guess the hard way per say, is hoist with no sock or furler. Which is how we usually do it, when racing with crew. No one has figured out how to use the sock, and get it up correctly. I have done a sock single handed with out issues. Assuming you have a auto pilot of some sort. With a tiller, easy to out side gybe with the tiller between my legs, let the leeward side out forward, while slowly steering that direction, then let go, steer a bit more in that direction, and haul like crazy on the new leeward side. Have not tried gybing with the asym and AP on. Tacking yes......
Marty
|
|
|
|
Post by mpcsail on Feb 23, 2019 2:54:11 GMT
I had a lengthy discussion with a major sailmaker. He recommended not going to a sock due the size of the boat (53), sail area and the likely hood of it jamming. Once that happens it’s a mess. They suggested the sock but running the lines back to the cockpit if I was worried about being short handed. Still on the fence and have not pulled the trigger.
|
|
|
|
Post by zaphod on Feb 23, 2019 7:09:08 GMT
Yeah the downside of the sock is that someone still has to go up to the foredeck to pull it down. I like the idea of being able to furl from the cockpit. An asymetric for our boat is over 1100sq ft, that could be a handful with a snuffer.
|
|
|
|
Post by mpcsail on Feb 23, 2019 13:27:45 GMT
Actually what the sailmaker was suggesting was that the lines for the sock would be run back to the cockpit so you wouldn’t have to go forward
|
|
|
|
Post by MartyB on Feb 23, 2019 15:42:01 GMT
A sock may work for me, as my boat is 30' long. 600sqft sail. As pointed out by a couple of you, a larger sail may be better with a top down furler.
As for running the sock lines back. I can see that working too. BUT one still in assuming either case, to douse the sail. So if you are trying to not go forward, I'm not seeing a way to do that.
Marty
|
|
|
|
Post by hoppy on Feb 24, 2019 13:10:07 GMT
all the big race boats, 100ft maxis, Volvo 65 & 70's, TP52's and so on use furlers for their asymmetrics.
I had a Selden CX25 code zero furler which can also be adapted for top down furling. I had a Code 1 and a huge North G2 and used to solo with them all the time. I could leave the furler always mounted and put up the appropriate sail.
I did a couple of races two up with that configuration. It worked well but got tiring when I had to do do several spinnaker changes due to the shifting conditions. Still better than the alternatives.
|
|
|
|
Post by sabmd42 on Feb 27, 2019 1:06:17 GMT
Thanks for all the responses. I'm thinking I will go for a top down furler for my next big boat present.
|
|
|
|
Post by zaphod on Feb 27, 2019 15:55:15 GMT
The Harken Reflex2 is the current frontrunner for me, mainly because they seem to have the best torque rope, although it is quite thin, which means more rotations to furl.
That said, I am waiting for a quote on a Bamar EVO unit. Bamar was the first to come up with top down furlers, and considered by many to be one of the best. They use a foam sleeve over the torque rope which increases the diameter quite a bit. That should make for faster furling AND be gentler on the sail. Unfortunately they are premium priced. A local rigger imports them, and I am hoping he can at least come up with a competitive price.
|
|
|
|
Post by apo on Feb 28, 2019 15:58:06 GMT
Hi Steve,
I've got a Karver top down furler KSF4 on our SO379 which we race, normally two handed, in various cruiser races along the coast in Cornwall and Devon.
A good friend who has had the system for a few years, suggested I get one and it is excellent, especially for short handed racing/cruising. Getting the tension right in the torsion cable takes a bit of practice, as too tight and the swivel becomes jammed and too loose and it does not furl correctly.
I have also found that its best to stop furling just before the spi sheets start wrapping around the sail, as it makes it difficult to unfurl. You need to make sure you have sufficient clearance between the jib furler and the spi furler.
Chris
|
|
|
|
Post by zaphod on Mar 1, 2019 22:33:37 GMT
So I have finally pulled the trigger and ordered a Selden 87mm sprit, and the bow roller collar that is specifically made for the 36i and 39i. I also decided to go with the Harken Reflex2 system, and have one of those on order too. I decided that for cruising I dont need to spend the extra $1000+ on Karver or Bamar. I think the torque rope is more important. By all accounts it has virtually eliminated the back-wrap issues that plague other torque ropes. Apparently you dont need nearly as much halyard tension with the Harken rope.
|
|
|
|
Post by sabmd42 on Mar 10, 2019 22:04:32 GMT
I just ordered the Harken Reflex 2 top down furler. I already have a Selden bowsprit. It should be a good system. I have been using an ATN sock, but it tends to get jammed going up depending on how smooth the spinnaker was when it was last doused. Also, trying to pull the sock down in wind and waves on a bouncing deck can be downright dangerous. I am really looking forward to getting the top down furling system.
Steve
|
|
|
|
Post by optimystic on Mar 11, 2019 16:47:54 GMT
We have a top down furler on our SO 379 with a North Code Zero and love it. When racing you still need three people on board plus driver as gybing takes two on the code zero and if breezy one dedicated on the main. If light wind the sail needs to be "walked around". If over about 6kts it will go over nicely if the driver controls the speed of the gybe. If the wind is up,12-20, it happens quickly and we dedicate the crew releasing the working sheet to managing all the sheets in the cockpit and managing the new working sheet winch and trim. So far its been a really great system.
|
|
|
|
Post by zaphod on Mar 18, 2019 21:48:28 GMT
We have a top down furler on our SO 379 with a North Code Zero and love it. When racing you still need three people on board plus driver as gybing takes two on the code zero and if breezy one dedicated on the main. If light wind the sail needs to be "walked around". If over about 6kts it will go over nicely if the driver controls the speed of the gybe. If the wind is up,12-20, it happens quickly and we dedicate the crew releasing the working sheet to managing all the sheets in the cockpit and managing the new working sheet winch and trim. So far its been a really great system. Funny, I thought Code Zeros used a bottom up furler, where the tack is secured to the torque rope, rather than on a swivel like an asymetric. |
|
|
|
Post by hoppy on Mar 19, 2019 10:01:45 GMT
We have a top down furler on our SO 379 with a North Code Zero and love it. When racing you still need three people on board plus driver as gybing takes two on the code zero and if breezy one dedicated on the main. If light wind the sail needs to be "walked around". If over about 6kts it will go over nicely if the driver controls the speed of the gybe. If the wind is up,12-20, it happens quickly and we dedicate the crew releasing the working sheet to managing all the sheets in the cockpit and managing the new working sheet winch and trim. So far its been a really great system. I used to manage gybing my Code 1 solo in 20 knots. I put the autopilot on close to 180, gybed the C1 and then the main. Having a boom break helped ensure the main did not gybe until I was ready. |
|
|
|
Post by sabmd42 on Mar 20, 2019 2:31:59 GMT
I got the Harken Reflex unit 2 furler in the mail today. The cable is very thin but seems to have no torsion twist at all. The boat should go in the water in the next few weeks. I can't wait to try it out. I will let you know how it goes.
Steve
|
|
|
|
Post by zaphod on Mar 21, 2019 2:15:51 GMT
I got the Harken Reflex unit 2 furler in the mail today. The cable is very thin but seems to have no torsion twist at all. The boat should go in the water in the next few weeks. I can't wait to try it out. I will let you know how it goes. Steve I have mine sitting here right next to me...still waiting for the sprit kit, and, of course, my new spinnaker! I'll be waiting a while yet! |
|
|
|
Post by sabmd42 on Mar 21, 2019 21:54:05 GMT
Hi Zaphod,
I have had the Selden sprit for a couple years. It works great. I have a sock for the spinnaker, but I am really looking forward to using the furling system instead.
Steve
|
|
rick63
Full Member
Posts: 33
Jeanneau Model: SO 409 (2012)
Yacht Name: Topaz
Home Port: Troon
|
Post by rick63 on Mar 26, 2019 9:24:44 GMT
Hi,
My wife and I do some two handed local club racing on our 409 and have a top down furler on our asymmetric. As mention in earlier posts it takes a bit of practice to get the tension right and also the best sail angle for the quickest and cleanest furl. We always furl when gibing so do lose out slightly but never mind we still enjoy the fact that we can still race the boat short handed. Also have a code zero so covered for most wind angles and strength.
|
|
|
|
Post by zaphod on Apr 26, 2019 15:40:12 GMT
I got the new Selden sprit yesterday, pulled it out of the shipping tube only to discover that the inboard end fitting and padeys were missing! So now I have to wait for them to ship those out...
I got a smokin' deal on a very lightly used A1 spinnaker off a C&C 110. It is practically brand new, at a price I just couldn't pass up. The seller was a racer who sold the 110 and had the sail taking up space in his garage...
The boat is scheduled to go to the rigger to get a masthead sheave box installed in a couple of weeks, then I can assemble the furler and send it in to the sailmaker who will cut the sail to fit.
Hopefully everything will be ready to go in the next month...cant wait!
|
|
|
|
Post by zaphod on Jun 1, 2019 0:37:45 GMT
The sprit is ready to go, unfortunately there has been a delay getting the masthead sheave box installed...I'm really itching to get the spinnaker going on this boat!  |
|
|
|
Post by ania on Jun 10, 2019 23:29:00 GMT
We have a top down furler on our SO 379 with a North Code Zero and love it. When racing you still need three people on board plus driver as gybing takes two on the code zero and if breezy one dedicated on the main. If light wind the sail needs to be "walked around". If over about 6kts it will go over nicely if the driver controls the speed of the gybe. If the wind is up,12-20, it happens quickly and we dedicate the crew releasing the working sheet to managing all the sheets in the cockpit and managing the new working sheet winch and trim. So far its been a really great system. Funny, I thought Code Zeros used a bottom up furler, where the tack is secured to the torque rope, rather than on a swivel like an asymetric. With Harken reflex Code Zero attaches to head and tack timbles and furls just like regular jib. |
|
