Whisker pole for 2004 SO 35

[Don Reaves]

I am considering adding a whisker pole to my SO 35. (Yes, I've sailed the boat for 14 seasons and am only now considering this option.) Currently, I'm looking at the Forespar LC 13-24, which you can see here. I really like this unit because it's easy to set the length while being quite compact for storage.

I'm a bit concerned that it might not fit on the front of the mast because of the location of the baby stay, which attaches to the mast a bit above the lower spreaders. The pole itself is 13 feet, plus you need some room above and below for a total of maybe 15 feet.

I've looked at some of the many photos I have of my boat, and also in the owner's manual to see if I can determine how high above the deck the baby stay attaches to the mast. Unfortunately, I can't get an accurate enough measurement to be sure the pole will fit. My boat is about 3 hours from home right now, sitting on the hard under a winter cover, so I can't go and measure it.

Does anyone have a Sun Odyssey 35, build in or around 2004 that they could measure for me? I would like to know the height above the deck of the baby stay attachment, and also how far in front of the mast it attaches to the deck. This will give me the angle that I need to check for clearance of the pole at the top.

Thanks,

Don

[Don Reaves]

The other day, I did my pre-launch preparation. With luck, my boat will be launched in a week or two.

I measured the space for a whisker pole and opted for a slightly shorter pole, which is 12 feet when collapsed. It looks like it will fit on the mast quite nicely.

The manual for my boat indicates that the topping lift should be 32 meters (same as my halyards), and they specify a diameter of 12 mm for the topping lift where the halyards are only 10 mm. This seems quite strange to me. I would have thought that the load on the topping lift would be quite a bit less than on a halyard. Can anyone comment on this?

Should I spend the extra effort (and money) to lead the topping lift to the cockpit? I would have to add a block at the base of the mast, a new deck organizer on the starboard side, and at least one rope clutch. Since I always sail alone, it seems to me that adjusting the topping lift from the cockpit would require an extra trip between the foredeck and cockpit when rigging the pole. Terminating the topping lift on the mast seems to be a simpler and (for me) a more effective solution.

I would appreciate any comments.

Thanks,

Don

[MalcolmP]

Don

Agree 12mm is unnecessary, on our 39i the factory fitted pole topping lift is much smaller than spi halyard, not on boat so can't check but 10mm max maybe even 8mm

I would set up what you think works for you. Maybe order long enough lines to be able to route back to cockpit if needed, but try out your idea of terminating at the mast first. You will need a cleat or stopper, but could temporarily set up a webbing strap loop or something where you could tie off the lift to try before fitting hardware

You may need a downhaul too to stop the pole lifting skyward

Malcolm

[Don Reaves]

Thanks, Malcolm. It’s nice to have confirmation that my intuition was correct.

I hadn’t thought much about the downhaul, figuring I could add it later if necessary. But I suppose it would also require the deck organizer and rope clutch, making it relatively less expensive to lead the topping lift back to the cockpit.

I’ll take your advice and buy a full-length topping lift.

Don

[rene460]

Hi Don, that recommended sheave height does seem high, but it’s worth considering what that does for you.  

I assume your pole pole will be quite heavy, by my standards anyway.  When you are standing close to the mast, pushing the outboard end so you can clip in the mast attachment, a higher sheave will gives you a nearer vertical rope, so easier to push the pole out.  Also the tension in the uphaul will be less due to the angle, so making it a little easier to adjust.   It it may be worth looking around to see what other boats of a similar size do in this regard.

Regarding whether to run the lines aft, while my experience is on a much smaller (previous) boat, bouncing atound on the foredeck deck of a small and rather tippy boat gives a different perspective to weight of the pole.  We always have two aboard, so still relatively short handed, and my wife found it helpful if she guided the pole while I took the weight on the uphaul from the cockpit while steering.  However, for single handing the consideration is quite different as you don’t have a second person.  So you have to choreograph your drill differently and I can see the downside of the cleats aft.  Once the pole is in place of course, being able to make fine adjustments from the cockpit is again an advantage.  With our normal two on board, I try to keep us both in cockpit for safety for as many operations as possible.  With three or four, the options would be different again.

rene460

[Don Reaves]

Hi Rene460,

The height of the pole I'm fitting isn't fixed. The inboard end rides on a track. When it is stored, the inboard end is about 13 feet off the deck, but when deployed, it can be as low as needed, so the angles are probably very much like what you've experienced in the past. Here's a video describing deployment.

My first sailboat was a laser, so I know how unstable smaller boats can be. Luckily, the laser is a catboat, so whisker poles weren't involved.

As for safety, I'm always tethered to my boat when on deck under way, no matter what the conditions are. No one is going to help me get back aboard if I fall off! And yes, I carry a knife to cut the tether just in case.

Don

[so40gtb]

Don,

Voyageur has had a mast-mounted Forespar whisker pole for several years, using a track-mounted Forespar car for the mast-end connection, which is also the upper end of the pole when stowed. The bottom and top ends of the car are connected to a loop line that rises up to a cheek block mounted on the mast, then down to another cheek block located below the normal in-use height, and back up to the car, with jam cleats mounted to the mast to hold it in place (as it sometimes comes loose, I'll likely put in a real clutch on this season), so raising and lowering is done at the mast. I usually use the spinnaker halyard to limit downward motion range and assist the deployment process, though that's controlled from the cockpit. The SO40 has no babystay.

The importance of a foreguy, from the end of the pole to the bow, cannot be understated. During a distance race in 20+ kt wind a few years ago, running downwind wing-on-wing using the pole, my crew was at the helm while I was in the head, didn't anticipate rotation from a following wave quickly enough, let the boat spin and backwinded the jib, the force of which ripped the track out of the mast and made for a tense 15 minutes de-rigging and recovering from the damage. A foreguy would have prevented that, as would have more bolts in the tack (since done). Now I use a line from cockpit to bow as the tack line for the gennaker and foreguy for the whisker pole.

Since the only real purpose of the topping lift is to keep the boom off the cockpit canvas when the mainsail is down, which doesn't involve much load, the specification of a 12 mm line seems excessive. I'm contemplating using a much smaller Dyneema line for that function. Because the topping lift comes off the back side of the mast, I would not use it for any purpose related to the whisker pole.

--Karl

[Don Reaves]

Karl,

Thanks for the story about what can can go wrong through inattention. I’m planning on putting in a full set of bolts through the track. But I know that can get very tedious, and the temptation to skimp can be great. I’ll consider a foreguy or at least a preventer. 

I replaced my boom topping lift with small-diameter amsteel some time ago, and it’s a great improvement. The topping lift I’m considering now is for the whisker pole. I just reread a post by Hoppy in the thread Self-adjusting topping lift where he said it was useless having the pole topping lift lead back to the cockpit when handling the pole solo. Food for thought.

Don

[rene460]

Hi Don, thanks for posting that video, I had often wondered how you handle those much larger poles than I have been used to.  Seems a bit of an anomaly to call it a whisker pole.  My first trailerable had a whisker pole made from a Broome handle size dowell with fittings on the ends, about two metres long from memory.

We used a double ended pole with end for end gybing on the previous boat.  As we have only had Irene for nine years I guess I have five more to go before I get to set up a whisker pole.  But I do understand how it would greatly help our downwind sailing when we just don’t want to raise the assymetric.

Rene460

[Don Reaves]

For what it's worth, I finally measured the dimensions I was wanting to know. The babystay attaches to the mast about 16.5 feet (5.03 m) above the deck, and attaches to the deck about 39.5 inches (1.003 m) in front of the mast.

[Don Reaves]

An update to this old thread...

I have used my whisker pole for two seasons now, probably only 3 or 4 times per season. But even so, I'm glad I made the investment. It's great being able to sail downwind efficiently without having to fight to keep the sails from collapsing. Faster, too.

I haven't found a foreguy necessary, but that may be because I don't use it in strong winds. Sailing alone, I don't want to get into a situation where I have to be out of the cockpit when things get out of hand, even with a harness and tether.

One thing I would do differently based on my experience is to mount the track lower on the mast. The track is 10 feet (3.05 m) long, and is mounted with the bottom end 47 inches (1.19 m) above the mast step. At this height, I almost always lower the inboard end of the pole to the bottom of its travel. It could easily be 9 inches (0.23 m) lower.

Actually, there is another thing I would have done differently. I bought two 5-foot sections of track for a total of 10 feet. The price of the track would have been the same as buying a single 10-foot section, but shipping was $75 US less because of the smaller package. That was about half the price of the track. In retrospect, I should have spent the extra money. It was very difficult to align the two ends of the track where they meet, since I installed it from a bosun's chair while the mast was up. I got them aligned to within 1/32nd of an inch (0.8 mm), and the car didn't easily ride over the transition. A bit of work with a file fixed the problem, but I would have rather not had to do it.

[so40gtb]

My track ripped out during an offshore race 3 years ago in 20+ kt winds and 4-5' waves. I left the helm to my crewmember (double-handed race) briefly. He didn't anticipate a wave-induced spin sufficiently, the jib got backed, the pole bent around a shroud, and the force when course was restored ripped out the track. This would not have happened, had a foreguy been in place, which is what I always do now. Fortunately, the pole was not deformed, though I did have to replace some track (and add bolts). The foreguy doubles as a tack line for the asymmetrical, which provides adjustment range and the ability to loosen the tack dramatically when needed, as was necessary the sail fouled on a spreader during takedown.