acepjb
Junior Member
Posts: 19
Jeanneau Model: 2009 45 DS SO
Yacht Name: Fortune's Favour
Home Port: PCYC
Country: Canada
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Post by acepjb on Sept 5, 2018 14:58:52 GMT
The Scheiber panel on my 2009 SO 45DS displays and sounds a high voltage alarm every time I disconnect shore power and start the engine. Causing multiple panel resets until (speculating) the alternator controller lowers the input into the batteries. Is anyone else experiencing this issue and does anyone know how to disable the alarm (the admiral is very annoyed). The local dealer has told me that this is a common problem with the Scheiber/Jeanneau install and has no 'fix' for the source of the problem.
Cheers
PJB
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Post by MalcolmP on Sept 5, 2018 15:26:47 GMT
There are a few pdf downloads on the scheiber website, but none of the bespoke Jeanneau ac dc panel that I could find Worth a question to them, possibly they might be able to help.... www.scheiber.com/contact-en/?lang=en
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Post by Mistroma on Sept 5, 2018 19:33:24 GMT
I had a similar problem, mainly due to my Trojan batteries needing about 14.8V to get to 100% charge in a reasonable time. The alarm went off all the time around 14.7V and the unit would often lockup and need to be reset. I couldn't find any means of adjusting the alarm voltage or turning it off. The lockups over 14.7V meant it wouldn't have helped anyway. I think that the link below gives the manual but don't think it will help with your problem. mistroma.com/Manuals/41.440A2.00NavigraphV1_0GB.pdfMy unit eventually died after a slight power surge. I wasn't keen to replace it with an identical unit but did want something that would appear very similar. I decided Arduino was the way to go and not too difficult to learn wrt code and circuit design. However, the project grew a little. 1) Proved impossible to find a reasonably priced serial graphic transflective display with the correct dimensions. No room to fit a larger display and only render to visible part either. I finally settled on a parallel display, problem solved 2) Available IO pins in short supply because the parallel display was using almost all of them. I considered using something with more IO pins or building a board to convert serial to parallel. The Ardiuno was so cheap that it was simpler and cheaper to use a second Arduino. One board handles the inputs from buttons and sensors whilst the second one runs the display side. The display Arduino acts as a slave and is controlled by a serial link from the other Arduino. 3) I wasn't happy with the fragility of the original Scheiber unit as it didn't like 15V and I think a spike killed it. I designed an IO board to handle all sensor inputs up to 100V and also the odd spike (hopefully). It also included transistor switches to power backlight, fuels sensor circuit etc. on and off. The board uses 2 four channel ADS1115 ADCs. I copied look of each page on Scheiber unit and also used the original control buttons. It all seems to work, looks like the original (though display not quite as good as the original). One big advantage is that I could calibrate tanks to give meaningful readings. Original only gave a VERY general indication of fuel and water levels. New unit actually gives meaningful readings. Domestic: Volts & Amps Engine & Bowthruster: Volts Water level forward and aft Fuel level in litres Plus more features if I feel the need to extend it (e.g. display readings from other kit). Interesting little project for my first look at an Arduino and I'll certainly consider using these to fix a few other items I've been meaning to replace (e.g. Boat alarm with SMS alert, doubles as anchor alarm). Perhaps something a bit simpler might have been better, but as I said "these things grow". Picture of the new unit: mistroma.com/jeanneau42ds_images/jeanneau42ds_mods/NewMultiDisplay.jpgI retained the original look but gave some items more meaningful names (e.g. Bowthruster instead of Auxilliary, Water(Fwd), Water(Aft) etc.)
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Post by sitara on Sept 5, 2018 21:35:54 GMT
Very neat solution to a problem. My unit is still working OK but now I know which way to go when it fails.
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Post by Trevor on Sept 5, 2018 22:40:12 GMT
Mistroma,
That is a seriously impressive modification to your panel. Could you possibly write it up a little and include the source code for the H&T section of the site? That is just a brilliant way to get around a problem with the original panel that from my perspective is a little too hard to find real information on. Also, a great way to improve the accuracy of the tank level guages. I am guessing you multiply the tank reading by some variable coefficient depending upon the actual tank reading, evening out the inaccuracy caused by tank geometry.
Absolutely brilliant!
Regards,
Trevor
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Post by Mistroma on Sept 6, 2018 21:20:15 GMT
I'll try to find time to write it up, probably in winter as it's cooler and I should have more time.
Water tank sensors are actually just wired to screws going through the tank. Jeanneau use a Scheiber box which outputs a fixed voltage when each screw is covered. All Jeanneau needed to do was use a template to let the guy know where to put the screws. Unfortunately, it seems that they were just put in random positions and one unit was even wired incorrectly.
I measured the water going into each tank and determined that the following applied to my tanks: Forward 5 litres 3% 30 litres 18% 60 litres 37% 111 litres 68%
Aft 20 litres 10% 40 litres 20% 80 litres 40% 140 litres 70%
Nowhere near the 25%,50%,75% and 100% indicated by the standard unit. I could put in screws at the correct places to get these readings. However, having readings bunched up near the bottom end is actually more useful. At least I now know when a tank gets down to 30-40 litres instead of the original just showing 50% (i.e. 80-100 litres).
The fuel gauge still isn't great as it seems to stick at 139 Ohms. I'll probably have a look at the sensor at the end of the season.
Ohms >=138 Text >95 litres >=129 and <138 litres given by 96 - (138-reading in Ohms) >=122 and <129 litres given by 87-( (129-reading in Ohms)*1.42) >=115 and <122 litres given by 77-( (122-reading in Ohms)*1.5) >=100 and <115 litres given by 66-( 111-reading in Ohms) <100 Reading in Ohms displayed as I'm still calibrating low readings.
I should really generate a polynomial equation to follow the tanks contour but decided that wasn't worthwhile yet.
The nice thing about DIY is that it is easy to alter the code to give any readings you need. I'm pretty certain that everyone's tanks will give different results.
I suppose that I could eventually add a menu option to allow a matrix to be tweaked for each tank, with the results stored in non-volatile memory. That would avoid having to modify the code to alter the readings if a sensor was giving incorrect results.
P.S. I did manage to source the switches (either loose or assembled in the correct layout). However, I was able to unsolder the originals and use them on a new board.
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Post by zaphod on Sept 6, 2018 21:37:41 GMT
Ok this looks like a good place for this question....
On my new '11 39i I was surprised to see that the panel does not indicate house battery amp draw, but when I look at the manual it looks like it is supposed to. Is that an option that Jeanneau doesn't install, or is there a problem with the panel or wiring?
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Post by MalcolmP on Sept 6, 2018 21:59:35 GMT
Ok this looks like a good place for this question.... On my new '11 39i I was surprised to see that the panel does not indicate house battery amp draw, but when I look at the manual it looks like it is supposed to. Is that an option that Jeanneau doesn't install, or is there a problem with the panel or wiring? This article will show you how to get it functioning... www.jeanneau-owners.com/hintsandtips/Inexpensivecurrentmeter.html
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Post by sitara on Sept 6, 2018 23:12:59 GMT
I followed the the hints and tips instructions shown above to get the amps used to display and it worked perfectly. The display will only show whole amps and not the decimal amps that Mistroma was able to design.
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Post by Mistroma on Sept 7, 2018 22:06:20 GMT
I don't know why it wasn't set up to display in 0.5A increments, I guess Scheiber reckoned nobody was interested. I found that I had to turn on a lot of LED lights to get a 1A reading instead of 0A.
The DIY approach allowed me to chose 0.1A increments. However, that's really only useful for LEDs and getting a better idea of current draw from fridge. The original wiring gives poor Voltage readings due to voltage drop. Current readings also ignore lots of things such as central heating, windlass, winch, charging sources etc. You only get a rough idea of current used by fridge, lights, nav. lights and instruments.
I fitted a cheapo eBay LCD unit (approx. £18) with a sensor slipped over a main battery wire. It's great and gives Ah,Wh,A, Voltage etc. and also has Bluetooth. I might add an extra option to my code to show "All" as well as "Domestic", "Engine" and "Bowthruster". I'd just need to add a Bluetooth module to one Arduino and could then plot total Amps In/Out in real time. I already get running totals via LCD display or phone app.
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Post by deepblue on Sept 9, 2018 10:15:25 GMT
Having all sorts of alarms all the time and also having the LCD readout fade away, I was close to getting a new LCD-Alarm panel at 800 euro´s or so. Then I found out that when you pulled the plug of the power feed from the LCD panel to the motherboard the thing would re/set it self. I bought a micro switch for 10 euro and wired it between the red wire of the power feed. little hole in the panel and now I have reset and off button. It will not cure the ever present aillments of the panel but at least you can shut it up and the LCD readout works fine again. Had this mod for 3 years now.
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Post by zaphod on Sept 9, 2018 16:07:09 GMT
I don't know why it wasn't set up to display in 0.5A increments, I guess Scheiber reckoned nobody was interested. I found that I had to turn on a lot of LED lights to get a 1A reading instead of 0A. The DIY approach allowed me to chose 0.1A increments. However, that's really only useful for LEDs and getting a better idea of current draw from fridge. The original wiring gives poor Voltage readings due to voltage drop. Current readings also ignore lots of things such as central heating, windlass, winch, charging sources etc. You only get a rough idea of current used by fridge, lights, nav. lights and instruments. I fitted a cheapo eBay LCD unit (approx. £18) with a sensor slipped over a main battery wire. It's great and gives Ah,Wh,A, Voltage etc. and also has Bluetooth. I might add an extra option to my code to show "All" as well as "Domestic", "Engine" and "Bowthruster". I'd just need to add a Bluetooth module to one Arduino and could then plot total Amps In/Out in real time. I already get running totals via LCD display or phone app. What is this bluetooth sensor you picked up? It just slips over the battery wire? I didn't know you could use inductive coil current sensing for DC current...how does it work?
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Post by Mistroma on Sept 10, 2018 5:55:53 GMT
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Post by Trevor on Sept 11, 2018 11:30:17 GMT
Hi Mistroma,
You certainly have done some great analysis. Many thanks for sharing it as you have provided hard data for some of the anomolies we may suspect exist.
Kind regards,
Trevor
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Post by Mistroma on Sept 11, 2018 19:59:45 GMT
Very kind of you to mention it. It would be trivial for Jeanneau to setup the water tanks to give meaningful readings. All that's required is to fill one tank in 25% increments and mark the levels on the side. Then they could make up a template based on that to use on every boat using that tank. A simple piece of wood with locating blocks and a hinged marked section hanging down the side would work. Obviously too much work and I think they just fit the sensor screws by rough guesswork, making the levels different for each boat they turn out. The Scheiber parts have no means of adjustment and simply show water at 25%, 50%, 75% and 100% I think that the control box part no. is 50.BTE05000E.00 and I have a manual for this unit (See link below). www.mistroma.com/Manuals/50.BTE05000E.00_FR_GB.pdfIt simply shows a different voltage as each sensor screw is covered with water. 1,00V < 1,10V < 1,20V empty tank 2,10V < 2,20V < 2,30V level ¼ 3,20V < 3,30V < 3,40V level ½ 4,35V < 4,45V < 4,55V level ¾ 5,50V < 5,60V < 5,70V full tank Actual voltages vary slightly but are always well within the stated range for each level. Very easy to detect each step as it happens but you are always stuck with odd positions Jeanneau decided to put screws through the tank. Water tanks were very easy to setup, fuel is trickier as it varies and sometimes seems to stick or jump up then fall back. I've looked at the sensor an it seems to respond as expected when moved manually. I think that the float might sit on one side of the support arm and wondered if that caused the arm to twist. That might explain why it sticks in use but moves freely manually. A new unit might fail fairly quickly because of this problem. I'm going to remove the sensor in a month or so to see if I can find a fault and buy a new unit if it is faulty.
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Post by Bora on Jan 23, 2019 19:51:36 GMT
Currently opening everything possible and tracing wires to label them properly with something meaningful...the dymo label machine arrives tomorrow! While looking at the scheiber panel my wiring doesn’t make sense to the drawing. Here’s my actual connection There’s two cables going in to “supply water sensor” which would make sense with the 2 tanks onboard (although not sure how you’d fit 4 wires in there if you used all the water tank slots) I also have a cable going in to fuel tank no 2, but I only have one fuel tank. Coming off the fuel tank there is a black and red wire I’m changing all the sensors out for Maretron TLM-100 sensors to connect to the NMEA so it’s not mega important....but I like to know how and why when it comes to the kit onboard. As I have a mastervolt BTMIII monitoring the domestic and engine batteries I may just unplug all the connections with the exception of the auxiliary (bow thruster) battery as it isn’t on my MV BTMIII.
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Post by Mistroma on Jan 25, 2019 11:33:39 GMT
The connector and schematic do match up and look the same as mine on 42DS. The 2 empty holes in your first picture are unused for tanks 3 and 4 (not normally fitted). The 2 adjacent purple wires run to small boxes fitted next to tanks 1 and 2. The small boxes connect to the screws on the side of each tank (also option for a top fitted unit with several stainless rods of varying length). These interface boxes feed back a voltage which isn't a smooth analogue signal, but jumps a level as each sensor is covered.
Picture 2 matches the schematic. No problem regarding room to connect levels for tanks 3 and 4, just a matter of fitting pins in the two empty slots for wires to two extra interface boxes (which you'd need to buy, though it should be simple to make them yourself).
The row furthest away on picture one shows the red wire which leads from 10 to the engine battery and the hole next to it is the unused no. 7.
The extra fuel tank wire is only thing which doesn't match. I'll have a look around to see if I took pictures of my connector. The fuel sensor only needs one wire to that connector as the other is just a common -ve. I wonder if a second fuel tank was common option on your boat. It would make sense for Jeanneau to include the wiring in the standard loom. I don't think it a second tank was an option on the 42DS.
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Post by Bora on Jan 25, 2019 11:41:47 GMT
It’s the cable into number 5 for fuel tank 2 that’s confusing me, I’ve only got the one fuel tank.
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Post by Mistroma on Jan 25, 2019 11:54:55 GMT
Sorry, I posted accidentally before adding the last paragraph. I had some problems with connection dropping and was editing a local text file to minimise the risk of losing anything. I was still altering earlier test and didn't scroll down to the last paragraph when doing a copy & paste.
Pretty certain that wire will run some where but not be connected at the other end, so no need to worry about it. I wonder if a second tank was an option, that would explain it.
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Post by Bora on Jan 25, 2019 12:35:20 GMT
Can’t think where it would’ve gone but I’m getting in to tracing and labelling anyway so hopefully find out where it leads to. Installing the TLM-100’s this evening.
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Post by Bora on Feb 4, 2019 14:41:12 GMT
Anyone know where we can find out what cable corresponds to what switch? I’ve got the breakdown for the battery/water/fuel panel but need to know what cables are for nav lights, electric instruments etc
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Post by rene460 on Feb 4, 2019 22:39:53 GMT
Hi Findhorn,
I find the wiring diagram is the best information to solve that problem. It has each connector block detailed, and colour code keys for the wiring, and also approximate cable run locations.
I will admit that the strict code presentation is a bit daunting, even quite hard to follow, but some “quality time” staring at the schematics eventually pays off. And despite the occassional variation, they seem mostly quite accurate. I like your idea of a labelling machine.
Without the schematic, I suggest it is pretty hard to trace paths on that circuit board.
rene460
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Post by Bora on Feb 4, 2019 22:46:49 GMT
Unfortunately the wiring diagram I have only shows all the wires going in to the panel, no indication of plugs. And with the wires being the same colours it’s not helping. I think I’ll make a small jumper cable and then unplug the connection and then jump each one individually to work them out.
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Post by Mistroma on Feb 4, 2019 23:02:26 GMT
Try to get the proper manual. It will be hard work as there's a lot of detail going right down to the colour and thickness of each wire. I only have one for the 42DS and uploaded it to give you an idea if it is the type of thing you are looking for (see link at bottom of this post). I looked at notes I'd made for my panel and they mention the following pages. You will see that it is likely to take a fair bit of effort to track things down. Let me know if you would like to look at the manual. I'd hope Jeanneau are consistent when making up wiring, there's a good chance my manual's diagrams (wire colours, connectors etc.) would match your boat for similar standard equipment. Page F03/1 Shows panel and each switches has a number e.g. Fridge 27 Left button (circular group) 5 Top button (circular group) 6 Page F03/2 Has a table describing button functions Not particularly useful as you can read labels on previous page Page F04/1 Shows connectors on panel Connector you show is marked 49 Page F04/2 Lists wire ref. and description for connections e.g. 49-1 CA (-) Shunt Page F05/1 Gives detail for each connector and wire colours e.g. 1 is CA or 1.5mm2 (i.e. pretty thin Orange wire) Page F11/1 Shows an overvall view of wiring from Scheiber panel You can find a copy on my webstite. You can find it here
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Post by Bora on Feb 4, 2019 23:17:22 GMT
Unfortunately this is as close as I get with my wiring diagram. Nothing showing the back of the panel.
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