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Post by sailingharry on Aug 3, 2018 2:44:46 GMT
Greetings,
New member here. Active racer on OPB's, and active cruiser on my Sabre 34. We are looking to upgrade to a suitable distance cruiser for our impending retirement (2 years out). The older 43DS looks, on the internet, to be a really top notch boat. We are looking at one this weekend, but have a few thoughts/questions already, and hoping for input from this group. I've spent a lot of time browsing these forums, and there are a lot of good ideas here.
* Storage. I don't see a lot of storage. My Sabre 34 has 13 drawers -- I don't see any where near that here! Some flippers along the sides, but I have to wonder how well they work. * Aft cabin storage. Two nice hanging lockers, not a single place to put your underwear, shorts, etc. Am I missing something?
* Interior hand rails. I'm used to hand rails in the overhead, to hold onto when moving below under way. There don't seem to be any here! How hard is it to maintain a secure grip while underway in a seaway? * 2-burner stove. This is almost a deal breaker for my other half. She really wants to get 3 burners. Will a larger stove fit in that opening? Really, it's surprising that it's only 2 burners. * Handrails forward on deck. That space forward of the mast is WIDE OPEN! Nothing to hang onto. Nothing to brace against. Has anyone added handrails along what remains of a cabin top edge in that area? * Equipment space. Is there useful space for mechanicals? Inverters, larger alternators, more batteries, water makers, solar controllers, SSB tuners, all that crap that "grows" on a cruising boat? * Aft ventilation. We currently sleep in the forepeak (no aft cabin on our boat). With the forehatch open and a windscoop, ventilation is divine! How is that aft cabin in hot, still nights at anchor? Is there enough air flow through those little opening ports? * Forward "bunk" cabin. Some versions have a double bunk-bed forward to starboard. That looks to be sweet! Rip it out, build a LOT of useful storage, maybe a small work bench, etc -- and you still have a marginal, but adequate, guest room. The one we are looking at this weekend unfortunately doesn't have this, but that looks like it addresses a lot of concerns.
Lest you think I'm being critical, not so. I know that all boats are compromises, I just want to be sure I chose the right set of trade-offs!
Some pluses I've seen: * Meets my draft/height requirements * Lots of light * Ability to see out the windows * Cabin top ventilation * Fridge and separate freezer * Big cockpit * Bit anchor locker * Cockpit storage * Not a wing keel * Not Saildrive * Not German sheeting * Mid-boom sheeting with a traveler * Plenty of tankage
Thanks for any thoughts!
Harry Rantum Scoot '79 Sabre 34 Annapolis, Maryland, USA
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Post by MalcolmP on Aug 3, 2018 5:36:12 GMT
I am not a 43DS owner, but there are quite a few projects worth looking at in our hints and tips section: www.jeanneau-owners.com Including additional storage under the dinette. You and your surveyor should check the mast support in particular. If the bilge has been wet the wood will rot, can be fixed OK, but not a small or cheap job, You will find more about that in H and T too. Also worth searching the forum for 43DS.
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Post by sailingharry on Aug 3, 2018 10:31:40 GMT
Malcolm,
Thanks for the hint on mast step rot. Been there, done that. My '79 Sabre 34 had that problem. In my case, repair was a complete removal of the entire cabin sole and all supporting ribs. Fortunately, labor was "free" so it was worth doing. LOL. What a brutal job.
I'll look closely at that on the first visit -- long before we get to a surveyor!
Harry
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Post by MalcolmP on Aug 3, 2018 13:10:51 GMT
If the shrouds are loose and/or bottle screws fully tightened that will be a major indicator of a problem. If left it can even affect the watertightness of the saloon windows as the deck flexs, but many it can all of course be sorted, but best at the sellers expense...
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Post by sailingharry on Aug 6, 2018 1:24:29 GMT
We spent over an hour looking at the 2003 43DS. Nice boat. Some specific questions.
* Has anyone added an overhead grab rail in the cabin? It's hard to move from the galley to the mast while hanging on. Natural grab points at the nav station and saloon table -- and neither can take the load! * Has anyone swapped out the 2-burner stove for a 3 burner? I took measurements, and looked at replacement stoves, and it would seem it can be done. * The helm wheel isn't large enough to reach from sitting on the leward rail. However, if it were 3 inches (8cm) further aft, it would be over the cockpit depression, and a wheel about 8" (20 cm) more in diameter would fit. Is that enough? Can it be somehow done? * Where do you put wet gear when you come below? No obvious place. Perhaps in the shower? * That is a LOT of thru-hulls! I lost count. Looks like a dozen, at least! I guess it is what it is, but on my Sabre 34 there are 7, and that includes 2 cockpit drains that aren't an issue on a DS43. * That aft cabin looks nice -- but also looks like it has poor ventilation. Any tips on keeping it cool back there? * The forward and aft bunks were made up, so it was hard to see under them. Forward, there was a generator at the aft edge. What is forward of that? Lot's of storage, perhaps? Aft, there were two small lockers for batters -- what is aft of the that? Room for storage as well? Perhaps gear (watermaker, etc?)?
Thanks for thoughts!
Harry
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Post by Len on Aug 6, 2018 19:32:33 GMT
My wife and I have lived aboard for almost four years. And we have cruised the San Juan's and Gulf Island before we sailed south to Mexico last fall.
* Storage. I don't see a lot of storage. My Sabre 34 has 13 drawers -- I don't see any where near that here! Some flippers along the sides, but I have to wonder how well they work. * Aft cabin storage. Two nice hanging lockers, not a single place to put your underwear, shorts, etc. Am I missing something? There are 5 drawers in the galley and we have some netting above the refer.
We have the owners version that has one large aft berth and one in the v berth. The aft cabin has two hanging lockers and large storage compartment on each side plus we have some baskets on the shelf next to the hull that we bungee down if it's really rough. And my wife uses the vberth hanging locker for more clothing. We have contemplated removing the vberth vanity and hanging locker to make room for a storage area but it probably won't happen as we seem to have plenty of room. We opened up the area under the dinning table for canned good and also store lots of stuff under the cabin sole around the fuel and water tanks and in the area around the bilge pump is huge. I store extra parts and tools under the cupboards. It's a bit of a hassle as you need to empty the cupboard/locker and unscrew the bottom to get into it but it's only for items that are not needed often. Our water maker is a Spectra Cape Horn and take up the storage area under the forward dinning area cushion. Some install the watermaker under the vberth but the pressure vessel on the Cape horn was just a little to long to fit. Installing a door on the bulkhead facing out from the vberth would be nice to make access easier to that area. And under the v berth is another large area where we keep our paddle board, inflatable kayak and more. We store dinghy fuel in the liferaft locker.
* Interior hand rails. I'm used to hand rails in the overhead, to hold onto when moving below under way. There don't seem to be any here! How hard is it to maintain a secure grip while underway in a seaway?
We have plenty of hand hold to go down below and into the salon. We use the nav station and table going forward but adding one above and or on the bulkhead would be nice addition. But so far we have made it work.
* 2-burner stove. This is almost a deal breaker for my other half. She really wants to get 3 burners. Will a larger stove fit in that opening? Really, it's surprising that it's only 2 burners. No comment as that's all we have ever had on a boat
* Handrails forward on deck. That space forward of the mast is WIDE OPEN! Nothing to hang onto. Nothing to brace against. Has anyone added handrails along what remains of a cabin top edge in that area? Yes we added handrails above the vberth area.
* Euipment space. Is there useful space for mechanicals? Inverters, larger alternators, more batteries, water makers, solar controllers, SSB tuners, all that crap that "grows" on a cruising boat?
Our inverter is on the bulkhead in the aft cabin and we have a 110amp alternator. 4 batteries under the aft bed. looks like you could add more without to much work. We have 600 watts of solar on the bimini with the controllers mounted on the bed pedestal for easy access to the batteries. Watermaker under the dinning area. we don't have a SSB just an Iridium Go. At some point in the future I would like to rework the Nav area as the 2 breaker panels could be consolidated into one if I were to remove the analog gauges and just use my Victron battery monitor. All that said room is limited inside. You could possibly mount some items in the sail lockers in the area where the heater is installed.
* Aft ventilation. We currently sleep in the forepeak (no aft cabin on our boat). With the forehatch open and a windscoop, ventilation is divine! How is that aft cabin in hot, still nights at anchor? Is there enough air flow through those little opening ports?
We installed fans in the vberth, main cabin and aft cabin. A wind scoop is on our list to get. We removed the dodger windows in Mexico and that helped to get air in through the hatches in the aft cabin.
Dragonfly has been a great boat for us. All boats are compromise between sailing performance and livability and our biased opinion is that the DS43 dose a good job of it. Is it perfect? No but we are making it better where we can and adapting when we can't.
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Post by sailingharry on Aug 7, 2018 2:26:44 GMT
Len,
Fabulous answers! Thanks. A great deal of info there for us to digest...
Hasrry
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Post by alenka on Aug 14, 2018 8:24:37 GMT
Harry,
There are different models of the 43DS, at least there are over here in Europe.
These vary from twin double aft cabins to twin forward cabins. The 4 cabin charter version crammed as many people in as possible at the sacrifice of storage.
The owners version with large single centreline bed has the most to offer with hanging robes and shelf space either side. In addition there are two large side bins (both sides) that are great for either clothes, shoes or bed linen. Plus a small bin under each seat. The storage under the bed is not easy to get to but again ideal for linen.
In addition to the galley drawers there is an underfloor pantry, two fridges and a top loading store suitable for pans; plus four lots of under seat cupboards with front opening doors.
Our boat has the single cabin forward with a wardrobe and vanity unit which when not occupied by guests my wife uses as a dressing area. For liveaboards (two people) I would say look at the two cabin option and use extra bunk beds cabin for storage. In many the bunks are hinged.
We store lifejackets under the forward berth and all sorts of bits and pieces under the seat.
I am not familiar with the Sabre 34 but I would have thought going from 34ft to 43ft would have offered more rather than less. Excluding the three storage areas in the heads I reckon we have 36 different areas in which to put stuff.
We spend on average 6 weeks at a time on board and have yet to run out of space for our daily needs.
Good luck with your search.
PS. Many models also have storage under the salon table.
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Post by markevans on Aug 14, 2018 16:31:05 GMT
Having recently benefited so much from this forum when buying our 43DS, I'm pleased to now be in the position to pay some back.
Unusually perhaps for a liveaboard couple, our preference was for the 4 cabin version which we are in the progress of upgrading for full-time cruising. We find there is plenty of room for us in the starboard quarter berth. We are c.6ft but slim. This gives us both the port quarter berth and bunk cabin for storage. We have also ripped out the fore heads/sink/holding tank etc in favour of a room to house a washing machine, watermaker and some tools. But even without these changes there is so much storage available albeit Jeanneau didn't bother to make it obvious or immediately available, so we are improving access to other areas, such as below the existing saloon storage. We have installed 8 x 130Ah batteries plus large charger/inverter, mppts, and electrical panel with alternator charger, relays and shunts as well as a consumer unit below the aft berths. If you need more than this then I think you need a bigger boat.
With regard to your other points, I share your concerns regarding hand holds generally and we plan to improve these. One of the obvious ones internally is to put a post between the counter top and coach roof at the foot of the companionway.
My better half cooks daily on our 2 burner without any issues, but we aren't into fried food much so maybe that makes a difference. For now we have only felt the need to replace the spreaders and burner caps. It is 600mm wide which is wider than some. Also, if you go for 3 burners check you would actually be able to use all 3 without resorting to toy pans.
Because of the ongoing works we have slept in every cabin apart from the bunks and haven't had any issues up to just over 30deg C (90F). The v berth has more air from the overhead hatch but we've still found the quarter berths good, although our heads aren't at the back as with the island berth arrangement.
Good luck in your search. We travelled extensively looking at just this model and so far have no regrets and bags of aspiration.
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Post by sailingharry on Aug 14, 2018 20:23:32 GMT
Alenka --
We are indeed looking at the bunk option, but they don't seem to be common here in the US.
Your comment on the underfloor storage is very true, and I was a little unfair in that regard. There is a LOT of underfloor storage.
The Sabre 34 does have less storage than the DS43, but it is closer than I expected. We have: * 5 drawers in the galley, useful for silverware, potholders, cooking utensils, plastic bags, and such -- all of which would kind of spill out of a locker. We also have a large storage bin, and sliders behind the counters, much like the 43DS. * 3 drawers in the nav station, useful for tools, "junk," pens, etc. Again, screwdrivers and pliers could be put in a toolbox under the floor, but they aren't convenient there and certainly can't be put in any cupboards. * The cubby under the nav station table is double the size of the one on the DS43. * The lockers behind both settees have real doors, are 2 feet high and a foot deep, and the length of the settee, with shelves. * There are 5 drawers in the forepeak, wonderful for underwear, swimsuits, shorts, tee shirts, etc. * The cockpit has a locker large enough for my deflated Avon to fit in with room to spare, and another that holds 4 fenders, a fender board, all lines, a spare anchor and rode. The 43DS that we looked at stored the fenders on deck, because there was no place to store them. Yes, the 43DS has more storage, but I doubt it is double the Sabre34. It's a bit frustrating!
Mark Evans --
Again, we agree, the bunk cabin is awesome. I wish I could find one. Even on line, the ones with bunk cabins appear to be charter boats with a lot of wear, and they also seem to favor the deep draft (we are hoping for a shoal draft version).
Your idea of eliminating the foreward head is brilliant. If I can convince the other half, that is.... LOL. I especially like the idea of fitting in a washing machine there.
Your comment on the dance pole by the sink is good. There is one shown in the hints and tips section, and I really like it. One boat we looked at had a 1 foot long stainless handrail mounted along the edge of the sink counter, which also worked well.
Your comment on the size of the 3-burner also sounds wise -- as I read some of the product descriptions, I've begun to wonder if that is an issue.
To both of you, and everyone else, we do appreciate the comments. Despite my somewhat critical comments, we do like the boat, and I recognize that all boats are a compromise. It is just wise to go in knowing the issues.
Harry
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Post by andreshs1 on Aug 15, 2018 15:38:57 GMT
Having recently benefited so much from this forum when buying our 43DS, I'm pleased to now be in the position to pay some back. Unusually perhaps for a liveaboard couple, our preference was for the 4 cabin version which we are in the progress of upgrading for full-time cruising. We find there is plenty of room for us in the starboard quarter berth. We are c.6ft but slim. This gives us both the port quarter berth and bunk cabin for storage. We have also ripped out the fore heads/sink/holding tank etc in favour of a room to house a washing machine, watermaker and some tools. But even without these changes there is so much storage available albeit Jeanneau didn't bother to make it obvious or immediately available, so we are improving access to other areas, such as below the existing saloon storage. We have installed 8 x 130Ah batteries plus large charger/inverter, mppts, and electrical panel with alternator charger, relays and shunts as well as a consumer unit below the aft berths. If you need more than this then I think you need a bigger boat. With regard to your other points, I share your concerns regarding hand holds generally and we plan to improve these. One of the obvious ones internally is to put a post between the counter top and coach roof at the foot of the companionway. My better half cooks daily on our 2 burner without any issues, but we aren't into fried food much so maybe that makes a difference. For now we have only felt the need to replace the spreaders and burner caps. It is 600mm wide which is wider than some. Also, if you go for 3 burners check you would actually be able to use all 3 without resorting to toy pans. Because of the ongoing works we have slept in every cabin apart from the bunks and haven't had any issues up to just over 30deg C (90F). The v berth has more air from the overhead hatch but we've still found the quarter berths good, although our heads aren't at the back as with the island berth arrangement. Good luck in your search. We travelled extensively looking at just this model and so far have no regrets and bags of aspiration. hi there We also got our 2 cabin 43DS very recently and had to do the base of the mast repair. I took the opportunity to service the inmast furler and now it is really easy to deploy or recover the main. we upsized from a Catalina 36mkii which we loved, and I must admit that we are really happy with her now, it sails very nicely we have aircon, but even here in Hong Kong with just fans in the cabins you get to sleep quite nicely it is a great boat markI would love to see some of the photos of the upgrades you have done cheers
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Post by saltymetals on Nov 25, 2018 0:29:47 GMT
Harry, i guess you are in the US. I have a 2004 43ds in Europe. Alenka described some of the variations but mine is the one where the fwd V berth and the starboard 2 bunk cabin can be opened up and made as one large cabin, and the two double cabins in the stern can be opened up to make one v large full width cabin. All the panels to be removed are carefully cut and designed to stow away in different places. If you aim for one of these models you need to make sure that if you see it in the 2-cabin configuration that they do indeed have all the panels so you can convert to 3 or 4 cabins if you wish to. I find the different configurations very good for when there are more guests/family on board. On one v long trip we were just 4 guys but it did mean that we each had our own cabin. BTW, the top bunk in the fwd starboard cabin needs a leecloth!
Now i have another question for this thread. I know a watermaker could be fitted in the large space under the forward seat in the saloon but actually i find that space v useful for storage of all sort of items. What about removing the 155 litre water tank under the saloon seat on the starboard side and putting a watermaker in there? I mean, after all if you have a water-maker you do not need so much water storage. Would that make sense?
Andrew "Genial Bee"
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Post by rxc on Nov 26, 2018 15:58:35 GMT
I have a Spectra watermaker installed in the bilge just aft of the mast step. The membrane unit fits very nicely up against the transverse stringer. The coarse filter and accumulate also fit down there, as well. The pump module is under the seat right next to the mast that you use for storage. It also holds my main air conditioning unit for the boat.
I have kept all 3 water tanks because I like to keep them as full as possible. I sleep better knowing that I have a good supply of water available. I have heard comments from racers that it is better to keep the boat light and go fast, but I don't mind losing 0.1 kt to have good water on board.
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Post by alenka on Nov 27, 2018 23:34:24 GMT
Did look at a 43DS with the water maker under the V-Berth with all controls accessible at the foot of the bunk, so it can be done.
Sorry, I didn't look to much at the water capacity or what else was under there.
On the boat we did buy we do have the extra water tank under the V-Berth but as there are still two top loading lockers in from of it (at the foot of the bed) I suspect there would be no problem locating a water maker here.
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