delly
Junior Member
Yes I know my way...
Posts: 10
Jeanneau Model: Merry fisher 795
|
Post by delly on Jun 8, 2018 14:35:17 GMT
Hi gentlemen, my name is Lucio and i'm writing from Italy. First of all I' m very sorry for my poor English. I took delivery of my 795 last two weeks ago as well after purchasing in February. Powered which Yamaha 200 hp. My experience was pretty brutal from not being able to get information about this boat, in spite of all I bought it. Now the question is : is there anyone who owns the same engine? How many engine rpm can it reach t maximum power? I Tried the boat in several different conditions, but I have reached 5000 rpm at wot. Maximum speed 29 khnots. In my opinion there are 800 rpm missing , at list! Would you like to be so kind to let me know something about it? Is this maximum number of revolution normal? It's pleasure to discover this forum. Waiting for your answer i' lol give you my best regards. by L.
|
|
|
Post by lynnardm on Jun 8, 2018 16:04:46 GMT
Lucio,
Welcome to the forum. Your English is darn good. Certainly Better then my Italian. The 795 and Yamaha 200 is a great combination. Capt’n Ron has that setup and will Likely respond. Yes your 795 certainly is underperforming. Max horsepower of the F200 is at 5500 rpm. You should be hitting that rpm at a minimum and preferably a bit over that to 5600-5800. And you should get well over 29 knots in speed. I don’t know your experience with boats so I’ll ask this first. Are you trimming out the motor once on plane? Proper trim makes a huge difference. You should trim for bow up till you start to get a bit of porpusing (the nose bobbing up and down) then trim back down until she smooths out. And of course if you have trim tabs assure they are trimmed properly. If this all is set properly and no other issues like forgetting to pull your anchor (ha) then it sounds like a problem wih an incorrect propeller. What diameter and pitch is the propeller?
Capt’n Lynn
|
|
delly
Junior Member
Yes I know my way...
Posts: 10
Jeanneau Model: Merry fisher 795
|
Post by delly on Jun 8, 2018 17:22:45 GMT
Hi Capt’n Lynn, nice to meet you. I Think I don't have enough experience with boats. But I bought the boat directly from Jeanneau,in French. They have mounted the engine . "Are you trimming out the motor once on plane?" Yes I did . I trimmed until the boat start cavitation. I don't have trim tabs. The engine is fitted to the second hole ( too lower?) The diameter and pitch of the propeller are : 15M 14 1/2. Steel propeller called "Vengance" unfortunately i' m so far away ( southwest of Italy) from the dealer. I' m not happy at the moment. I wish I were some more power .to be onest I tried the boat just a couple of time , with 4 people on board , with full tank (fuel and water). But 5000 rpm at wot seems poor power. Do you think I must change the propeller?
|
|
|
Post by lynnardm on Jun 9, 2018 2:06:15 GMT
Lucio,
That's strange that they put a Mercury Vengeance prop on the F200 Yamaha. Perhaps they could not get the Yamaha prop. I have been hearing of shortages of both Yamaha engines and props. Regardless, I would not expect the Vengeance brand of prop to be a problem. Per the info you provided, I believe the Vengeance you have has a 15" pitch and 14.5" diameter. The F200 has a gear ratio of 1.86 to 1. Using your data (5000 RPM at 29 knots) that is a slip factor of .12 which is in the range of what I would expect. Capt'n Ron told me some time back that with his 795 and the Yamaha F200 at 5000 RPM he gets 29.5 knots. That is in line with your boat. So this all tells me that your prop pitch is probably the same as Capt'n Ron's. (Based on the data I expect that Capt'n Ron has a prop with a 15" pitch but haven't confirmed that.) I hope to hear what diameter his prop is to see if its the same as yours, but I don't expect diameter to be your problem. I don't know what the WOT RPM and speed is that Capt'n Ron gets with his 895. But he did tell me that he can go faster than 29.5 knots. Lets wait for him to provide input. And perhaps some other 795 owners will provide input.
Capt'n Lynn
|
|
|
Post by rene460 on Jun 9, 2018 3:30:20 GMT
Hi Lucio,
Congratulations on the new boat and welcome to the forum. It is a great place to rub shoulders in a virtual sort of way with like minded boat owners. And don't worry about your English, it is more than adequate. And people can always ask a question of they are unsure of your meaning.
It seems to be human nature that when we make a large purchase like this, we get cold feet, and wonder if we did the right thing, and we seem to worry that something is not quite right at the slightest sign.
I think you can rest assured that Jeanneau and Yamaha did get together and put the appropriate propellor on the boat, even though they often seem reluctant to reassure owners on these things.
But there is no such thing as "the" right propellor. The choice is a complex mix of engine performance and hull characteristics and there s a range of propellors which will be a reasonable choice. However, within the range, there will be different ones that are closest to optimum for a given purpose. And to be fair to a production manufacturer, their choice will be one that is reasonable for the widest possible range of users of the boat.
In your case, if you were a custom propellor supplier, you would almost certainly choose a different propellor for running flat out with four passengers, than you would choose for economical long range cruising with cruising gear, full water and fuel and so on. So full tanks, four passengers may be pushing the limits for your boat, while you might get quite exciting performance with two people, and only fuel, water and provisions for an afternoon.
To get a feel for what the boat should be able to do, the best start is to look out the specifications page of the Yamaha book that came with your boat. Jeanneau are usually quite good in supplying most of the documentation for the "bought in" items. You should be able to find a "maximum rated rpm" for the engine, with corresponding engine power at that rpm. You will also find a "maximum continuous rpm" somewhat lower with a different corresponding power, I think this will be also lower, but I am not familiar with those engines. Assuming the highest power is at the maximum rated speed, you should be able to reach that speed or perhaps 10% higher at wide open throttle. It will probably be just what you have already been told, but best to confirm it for yourself from the manufacturers specifications.
When you do this, just like on a yacht, record the maximum rpm at wide open throttle, along with your hull speed by GPS for future comparisons. Always repeat these tests soon after a clean, as a fouled hull or propellor quickly changes these values, and the test is quite repeatable for comparison purposes. Well not quite, the boat speed will be quite sensitive to how much weight you are carrying. All sailors know that weight is only good in an anchor, and not in the anchor you carry when racing. The same applies to your power boat. So record the test with your "normal" crew and equipment. And perhaps maintain different records for full and empty fuel and water tanks so you know how much difference they make.
If you can't reach maximum rated speed at wide open throttle, it's time to track down the cause. In my opinion, the most likely is a fouled (or damaged) propellor. Either can have a dramatic effect on how much torque it takes to drive the propellor at a given engine speed. And propellors don't mix well with rocks. But even slime or a barnacle makes a difference out of proportion to its appearance. Even at the much slower rpm on my yacht. So inspecting the propellor is where I would start.
Boat trim is very important to get right for a power boat, so work on getting that right. Do what you can with weight distribution and the adjustment provided on the boat before buying more equipment.
The engine could need a tune, if it is quite new and has not completed all the early service checks.
If the main problem is boat speed, try again first with the lightest load you can reasonably manage. Crew of two, water and fuel tanks getting close to needing a fill, and again after topping them up. You will see how much, or little, difference this makes to your boat. But after weight, hull fouling can build up quite quickly so have a look at how clean is your hull.
I would suspect that least likely is wrong propellor selection at the factory. Worth a quick inspection to confirm that it is the original factory fitted prop, but it most likely is, and as such it will be a good all round choice.
Best wishes in your quest to understand your new pride and joy, you have many years of pleasure and learning ahead of you,
Rene460
|
|
delly
Junior Member
Yes I know my way...
Posts: 10
Jeanneau Model: Merry fisher 795
|
Post by delly on Jun 9, 2018 6:00:11 GMT
Hi Rene, tank you for your answer. The boat is clean, only a couple of weeks in the water, the propeller is perfect. No damage. The only thing I'm wondering is: is the engine at the right position on the boat? And the propeller has the right dimensions? I've seen the Yamaha manual. The value at the maximum power is between 5000 and 6000 rpm. It means that could change . I don't think 4people ( my family with 2 boys) and full tanks is too much weight. If it is possible I'd like to know the position of the engine ( in which hole did you place it?) and what are the dimention of your propeller? Merry fisher 795 Yamaha 200 hp owners please give me an answer. tank you so much. ps : I'm not satisfied of jeanneau customers care! Probably I made a big mistake buying not in my country. Do you have a call center number? Ps2 : the name of propeller is Reliance... I'm sorry. 15M- 14 1/2.
|
|
|
Post by nanus18 on Jun 9, 2018 9:17:56 GMT
Hi Lucio, I feel my bad English, I write from Spain, I attach photo of the placement of my Yamaha F200GETX in my new MerryFisher 795 and the propeller Serie Reliance M14 By indication of the distributor during the first 10 hours of use, I have not exceeded 4000 rpm My problem is that once the elevation has been made to the maximum of the engine (tilt up), part of the tail stays inside the water, does the same thing happen to you? And the images: Regards
|
|
|
Post by rene460 on Jun 9, 2018 12:13:42 GMT
Hi Lucio,
I should make it clear that I have a sail boat, the SO30i per my avatar panel. There are always many ways to look at any engineering problem. I come at at from an engineering career, with considerable experience in making sure drivers were properly matched to the load imposed by the driven machine, not very different to matching a propellor to a marine engine.
On the other hand, Capt'n Lynn has the detailed knowledge of a power boat owner. Each approach has something different and valuable to offer. One of the advantages of an active forum like this one. His reply appeared while I was typing, so I did not have the benefit of his reply while I wrote.
It seems you have ticked off most of the boxes, with mainly optimising that trim position of the motor remaining, and perhaps some experimenting with other aspects of weight distribution that you can control. Probably wouldn't hurt to do a few trials with that pin position, so you fully understand its effect. When you know the limitations of those aspects of trim control, then you will be in a better position to know if you need a variable trim control, and how to use it.
(I have been assuming that the engine position you were talking about is a trim position. I see from the pictures posted by nanus, that it might be the height adjustment. I would expect the height to be fixed by the transom height, so would not suggest changing that unless others with direct experience advise it. My suggestions to experiment were about the engine angle. Sorry if I have caused confusion there.)
I also would not worry too much about that variation in power at wide open throttle, it will depend a bit on just what speed your boat can achieve with that engine, just look at the maximum rated rpm and maximum continuous rpm. The propellor load should allow your engine to reach something in the region of the maximum rated rpm at wide open throttle, and changes in your readings after setting a base line with everything new and clean are a good condition indicator.
Capt'n Lynn and other owners are in a much better position to evaluate the actual figures, but it sounds like you are not too far out.
Rene460
|
|
|
Post by lynnardm on Jun 9, 2018 14:14:15 GMT
Lucio,
You stated you are wanting to confirm the position of the engine. I encourage you to get this info as it could have an impact. Also, is it a long or short shaft F200? Same idea here is to confirm that the prop etc is at the proper depth. But sorry I don't have the answers. I did come across 2 articles on 795 performance. www.boatingmag.com/jeanneau-nc-795 This one in boating magazine has a useful test chart. It shows top speed at 5900 RPM and 33.19 knots. (It also has a mistake in the chart for the speed at 5500 RPM but I ignored that). It indicates they are using a prop with a 14" pitch. www.boatsales.com.au/ The other test is a boat sales Australia article. It does not have a chart or list the prop size but indicates a top end of 5300-5400 RPM and 32-33 knots. Both these tests indicate your boat is underperforming by a significant margin. One thing we haven't talked about is an underperforming engine that is not outputting the rated horsepower. If you are using a lower octane fuel that will lower the HP but it only by a small amount and not a significant impact. So is something else wrong with the engine? This should be looked at if after all of the above is explored. I'm also suspicious of that Mercury Vengeance prop. I'd ask your dealer for a Yamaha Reliance prop and give it a try.
Capt'n Lynn
|
|
delly
Junior Member
Yes I know my way...
Posts: 10
Jeanneau Model: Merry fisher 795
|
Post by delly on Jun 9, 2018 14:56:52 GMT
Hi Lucio, I feel my bad English, I write from Spain, I attach photo of the placement of my Yamaha F200GETX in my new MerryFisher 795 and the propeller Serie Reliance M14 By indication of the distributor during the first 10 hours of use, I have not exceeded 4000 rpm My problem is that once the elevation has been made to the maximum of the engine (tilt up), part of the tail stays inside the water, does the same thing happen to you? hi nanus , my engine is attached like yours. When it is tilt up just few centimeter of tail remains into the sea. It depends of fuel tank. If it's full or if I'm using the leverage the fin will be into the water. Please can you make a picture about the number of the propeller? Tank you so mach.
|
|
delly
Junior Member
Yes I know my way...
Posts: 10
Jeanneau Model: Merry fisher 795
|
Post by delly on Jun 9, 2018 15:37:28 GMT
|
|
|
Post by nanus18 on Jun 11, 2018 20:12:17 GMT
Sorry Delly, It is not possible to give you the requested reference until the beginning of July
|
|
|
Post by Capt’n Ron on Jun 12, 2018 0:22:02 GMT
Hi Lucio, Sorry for the delayed response, but I wanted to get some updated numbers before I posted a reply. As others have mentioned it really depends on a number of different variables; weight, water conditions, wind, tides, and boat configuration resistance. I didn't check my prop, but I assume I have the 15M- 14 1/2, but I will verify. 2016 MF795 with Yamaha F200 Configuration: - Weight: 6 batteries, 1 person at 200lb, 3/4 tank of fuel 54G (324lb), downrigger gear, rocket launcher, roof rack, an oh yeah, I had my big salmon net flopping in the wind.
- Engine trim: I had the engine tilt trim set to 6 bars
- Trim Tabs: set to 5 bars bow down
So basically the lines weren't that aerodynamic, so I would assume my numbers would be slightly higher. RPM | MPH | Knots | GPH | 4200 | 26 | 23 | 8.4 | 4400 | 28 | 24 | 10 | 5000 | 32 | 28 | 16 | 5300 | 36 | 31 | 18.5 |
5300 RPM was the max I could get. I was able to get 40MPH on my sea trial, but that configuration had very little fuel and no added drag such as my configuration. So basically the results align pretty close with what Yamaha has published on the F200 for the Jeanneau MF795. yamahaoutboards.com/CMSPages/GetFile.aspx?guid=9b1d3259-ee35-4684-a6b9-1791b2380c75Overall I am pleased with the performance given I typically cruise between 28-30MPH for fuel efficiency. I do think it could use a bit more power for getting out of the hole, but the trim tabs help to get up on plane much faster so not a big deal. Would it be nice to have a 225 or 300 strapped to the back to compare motor size and keep up with other friends boats, sure it would, but not at run rate cost. Before I purchase my 795 I was 95% certain I was going to purchase the Cutwater 24' with a Yamaha 300 on the back, but what I found was I couldn't reach 40MPH, and the fuel consumption was significantly more and the 795 rendered a much better ride and handling. I hope this helps. Cheers, Captain Ron
|
|
delly
Junior Member
Yes I know my way...
Posts: 10
Jeanneau Model: Merry fisher 795
|
Post by delly on Jun 12, 2018 14:47:13 GMT
Hi Ron, ty for the answer. Six batteries? . Do you really have six batteries? However if it's possible I'll appreciate if you Took picture about your propeller. Just to compare with mine. Tyou very much, L.
|
|
|
Post by Capt’n Ron on Jun 12, 2018 14:55:26 GMT
Yeah, that’s right, six batteries, 1 for motor, 4 for house inverter, and 1 for bow thruster. Long story short, it was a dealer blunder on my electrical setup to get my inverter to work with my Keurig. Ill get you my prop specs in the next couple days when I get down to my boat. Cheers.
|
|
|
Post by Capt’n Ron on Jun 14, 2018 3:37:01 GMT
Hi Lucio, I did confirm I have the Reliance Series 15M - 14 1/2 pop.
|
|
delly
Junior Member
Yes I know my way...
Posts: 10
Jeanneau Model: Merry fisher 795
|
Post by delly on Jun 15, 2018 18:58:44 GMT
Thank you Ron
|
|
|
Post by paulmcc on Jun 15, 2018 23:03:26 GMT
Hi Lucio. Thanks for starting this interesting thread. I also have a MF795 with the Yamaha F200 and I also run it with a Reliance 15M x 14 1/2" SS prop same as you and Ron. My figures are almost exactly same as Ron with WOT 5300 giving 29-30 knots. The boat was fitted originally with a Reliance 13Mx14 1/2" prop (ie 13" pitch) and was able to get 6000rpm at WOT, but top speed was not much different. With that lower pitch prop it was difficult to stay on plane at 4000rpm and I was forced to cruise @ 4500-5000 most of the time rather than 4000-4500 as i do now. Sometimes I think a Reliance 14" pitch prop would be perfect especially when boat is a bit heavier but most of the time the 15" is about right. As someone said earlier the prop pitch you need depends on loading of boat and sea conditions but the 15" works very well most of the time. Maybe they'll bring out a variable pitch prop one day! Anyway enjoy your boat you've made a great decision!
|
|
|
Post by lynnardm on Jun 16, 2018 14:34:25 GMT
Based on the data you guys have provided on your boats and the Yamaha test data (the link from capt’n Ron) I agree that the reliance 14” pitch prop is the way to go.
Capt’n Lynn
|
|
delly
Junior Member
Yes I know my way...
Posts: 10
Jeanneau Model: Merry fisher 795
|
Post by delly on Jun 16, 2018 15:30:07 GMT
I'm agree. I'm going to find it...
|
|
|
Post by lynnardm on Jun 16, 2018 20:54:42 GMT
Delly,
If your boat is new jeanneau or your dealer should be willing to swap out the props at no charge. In particular since the official Yamaha test data uses a 14” pitch. Bottom line is they put the wrong prop on that boat. My previous boat was a MF 695. I Think it had the reliance 15” pitch prop which was a perfect match. The 695 is a bit smaller and lighter than the 795. So I would not expect the same size prop to be the correct one on both these boats.
Capt’n, Lynn
|
|
|
Post by paulmcc on Jun 18, 2018 1:47:21 GMT
Agree that as an all round prop 14" pitch would be about right. Having said that I've got 600 hours on my 15" and very happy with the performance. I usually have a relatively light boat in good sea conditions. I am surprised that you're only getting 5000rpm from your 15" prop. If I was regularly going to be in adverse sea states with heavier load i might hunt around for 14". There are some advantages to larger pitch in that you can cruise at lower rpm with less noise. Also slightly less fuel consumption, although not really much different. So in summary either prop would do but if you can get a 14" then go for it. Good luck.
|
|
|
Post by Capt’n Ron on Jun 18, 2018 13:15:26 GMT
I was out yesterday with about a half tank of fuel and did get to 5400 rpm and cruising 37mph (32 knots), and at 4800 I was cruising 32 mph (27.8 knots), so you can see your performance will vary a bit each time you are out. I agree with Paul and Lynn, you should be getting more than 5000 rpm with your current prop configuration.
Btw, I did go through the Yamaha prop configuration tool and the recommended prop was either 14.25/13 or 14.5/13, although keeping in mind I wasn’t able to plug in the specs for the 795, the tool based it on a center console boat setup.
|
|
|
Post by Capt’n Ron on Jun 18, 2018 13:33:34 GMT
Hi Nanus, I was just looking at your bottom paint, and it looks like it doesn’t extend up to the water line. Both mine and Paul’s go up to and cover part of the scutter port and just below the engine well drain port. Did the dealer do the bottom paint?
|
|
|
Post by rob795 on Jun 18, 2018 15:16:35 GMT
Hi Nanus, I was just looking at your bottom paint, and it looks like it doesn’t extend up to the water line. Both mine and Paul’s go up to and cover part of the scutter port and just below the engine well drain port. Did the dealer do the bottom paint? Hi all and hi Captain Ron,
Sorry to chime in on this post with some slightly unrelated questions but I've been reading through this threads and other posts and thought you guys might be able to help given your experience with the MF795. I am yet to buy but it certainly ticks a lot of my boxes and is so well laid out.
Firstly, I am wondering what its offshore fishing handling is like - specifically does anyone know what is the deadrise degree is at the transom and would you describe the chines as wide, narrow, down-turned, reverse or just regular?
Secondly, does anyone have a ski-pole added to their 795 to pull wake boarders/sea-biscuits around ?
Lastly, I am a little worried about the power - if I were to have a fully loaded boat for an inshore weekend away (full tank of water/fuel, dive equipment, 4-5 people, ice, fishing gear etc) the standard Yami 200hp 4-stroke I worry would not be able to cope especially when I need the torque to lift a wake boarder/skier out of the water and get up on plain. To remedy I've been looking at the Evinrude ETEC G2 engines. Do you guys know anyone who has an ETC G2 on their 795 ? Will it fit between the swim platforms, perhaps there will be space for a 225 or even a 250 so long as the transom is strong enough (weight is not too dissimilar to standard 200s)
Any help on this would be hugely appreciated Rob
|
|