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Post by Tafika II on Jan 15, 2018 22:43:41 GMT
I have one of the fixed side cabin windows slighting leaking. I have gone through this site looking at the various repairs and replacements reported, but I’m still a little fuzzy on how to cleanly remove the window. I understand all of the caulking on both the cabin and the window needs to be removed before re-installing and I have no problem with doing that. I read in one thread about using wire to go between the cabin & the window to remove the window. Is there s a specific type of wire? I assume you remove what caulking you can, force the wire between the window and the cabin and work your way around gently until it’s loose. Of those who have already done this, maybe you could help fill in the blanks for me. I am planning on re-installing the window using Sikaflex295 UV.
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Post by lamanouk on Jan 22, 2018 6:49:34 GMT
Jeanneau replaced all windows on my previuos SO 45DS.
The removed with electric knive and wooden wedges.
Then they filled all gaps between the inner and outer hull with polyester filler, sanded and degreased with acetone.
Then they applied a primer 3M P591, then 503 polyurethane glue and finished outside with 354 silicon seal. The primer must
be applied on the hull and the window, and the part with primer must be degreased.
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Post by Tafika II on Jan 22, 2018 17:57:34 GMT
Thank you for this information. I am first going to remove all the existing caulking and re-caulk the entire window. If that does not work, then I'll remove it and rebed it accordingly.
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Post by sleighride on Jan 22, 2018 18:33:02 GMT
Tafika: Be sure you use the Sikaflex Primer, 209N, before you apply the new Sika 295UV. I had my forward starboard window removed, cleaned, and re-caulked and the boat yard informed me about the fact that the polycarbonate (Lexan) windows would not bond well with the 295 until and unless the plastic had first been treated with the 209N. I had tried several times myself using the 295 on both the inside and outside, but the leak persisted. The window has not leaked now for four years since the repair, and that includes over a dozen gales, two storms, and many trips across the Columbia River Bar with green water breaking over the deck and windows. I suggest you call Sika Corp Tech Service at 888-832-7452 and ask them for a copy of their Guide to Bonding Plastic Marine Windows with Sikaflex 295UV. Good luck but be sure to use the Primer. After you are done, Sika also recommends an exterior opaque window perimeter for long term UV resistance. That is why Jeanneau paints the black border around the windows at the factory. Be sure the border paint is suitable for use on plastic if your border paint faded like mine did.
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Post by Tafika II on Jan 22, 2018 21:34:06 GMT
I contacted Jeanneau to confirm the window material is PMMA (acrylic) not PC polycarbonate (Lexan™️). According to Sika's Pre-treatment_Chart_Marine_e.pdf file, the windows must be primed with 209D and the fiberglas with 205. As you suggest, I'll call them before I start this project & post their suggestions and process recommendations.
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Post by allegria on Jan 23, 2018 0:19:07 GMT
Hi Tafika et al,
The windows of my 2010 SO 36i, on starboard have become loose at the bottom, i.e. the sealant seems to have failed.
You wouldn't be surprised to find out that starboard is exposed to a lot more sunshine in the marina where the boat is located.
The top part of the window is actually protected by a sort of wing covering it (SO 36i 2010) and seems to be holding the window in place.
I do not have any leak for the time being as the water would run off at the bottom of the window but I guess some blue water could easily make its way inside.
I have been investigating ways of resealing the windows and I am very interested in your findings.
One thing I've looked at is using 3M VHB double sided tape. VHB stands for Very High Bond and it is used in the motor vehicle industry as well as windows for the building industry.
Has anyone looked at VHB tape to reseal windows? There are lots of articles online about it...
Cheers,
Allegria
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Post by matthias on Jan 25, 2018 23:54:00 GMT
I contacted Jeanneau to confirm the window material is PMMA (acrylic) not PC polycarbonate (Lexan™️). According to Sika's Pre-treatment_Chart_Marine_e.pdf file, the windows must be primed with 209D and the fiberglas with 205. As you suggest, I'll call them before I start this project & post their suggestions and process recommendations. Hi Tafika, I cannot recommend to go with Sika, the caulking 295 is UV resistant but the primer not! Based on Sika's own installation instructions you would need to shield the primer area from the outside. Actually, in the rolling stock industry where I'm coming from we are using Henkel/Loctite Teroson MS 939 with TEROSON PU 8519 P as primer for glass window bonding. Both are UV resistant. Teroson is an MS Polymer which "can" be used even without a primer on organic materials. If you can wait a bit I can show you some results, because I'm going to fix my leaking windows today. |
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Post by matthias on Jan 26, 2018 12:09:19 GMT
What a P in the A!
As promised, a update after the window replacement today.
Get yourself an oscillating window cutter! I'm so happy about that tool, without it I would not have had a chance to get the window out.
Anyway, the reason why my window had leak was quite clear, the primer failed. Even in the past (boat is from 2000) they have used an MS polymer to bond the windows. But in the area with them most UV ray impact, the bonding between the glue and primer was clearly gone. The MS polymer was inside the glue still soft and sticky and outside (2-3mm) completely cured. At the top where the window is shaded by the exterior blinds of the SO 43 DS, the bonding was still in perfect condition.
Conclusion: Buy Henkel/Loctite products, forget Sika - in general!
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Post by Tafika II on Jan 26, 2018 15:51:35 GMT
Thanks for your update, but for now, I don't intend on removing the window. I'm just remove the existing caulking and recalling with Sikaflex 295UV and 205 primer. Yees, I realize the primer is not UV inhibited, but the outside of the window is painted black in the chalked areas. I'll post when I'm done
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200642ds
New Member
Posts: 1 
Jeanneau Model: 2006 42 DS
Country: USA
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Post by 200642ds on Jun 17, 2018 4:50:10 GMT
Do you have any updates, photos or tips and tricks to share? I am looking to pull mine apart early next month.
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Post by Tafika II on Jun 17, 2018 16:22:26 GMT
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Post by ianqv on Jun 16, 2019 18:32:05 GMT
Great Thread - I'm going to attempt mine as soon as it stops raining!!
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Post by ianqv on Jun 28, 2019 9:28:12 GMT
Just an update.....
Repair all done and the window now has a good bead of seal around it.
I now need some rain or heavy weather to test it out.
I bought the 250ml containers of the primer and activator (the smallest they do) - I reckon this is enough to do 20 boats!! So don't be tempted to buy the 500ml or 1ltr!!
Cheers
Ian
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Post by Trevor on Jun 28, 2019 10:04:39 GMT
Well done Ian,
I await for my moment in the sun when my windows leak and I search desperately for this thread and the H&T section to follow the advice very carefully. I am not looking froward to it but I figure it is inevitable.
Regards,
Trevor
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Post by zofiasailing on Mar 3, 2020 0:49:30 GMT
Well done Ian, I await for my moment in the sun when my windows leak and I search desperately for this thread and the H&T section to follow the advice very carefully. I am not looking froward to it but I figure it is inevitable. Regards, Trevor Trevor We are attempting this job up at The Boatworks in Qld. Have you had a go at window removal yet? We think there might be some fiberglass guide posts as we’re getting an obstruction using the wire saw. Any thoughts? We have same model as you. TIA |
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Post by Trevor on Mar 3, 2020 12:12:27 GMT
Hi zofiasailing,
I have not had to attempt this job yet so I cannot provide any guidance at all. All I know is it is a job I am really not looking forward to. When you have done the work if you could inform this thread of how you did it it would be appreciated.
Regards
Trevor
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Post by zofiasailing on Mar 4, 2020 1:04:49 GMT
Trevor
We’ve opted against removal. As mentioned, Brian encountered something like GRP guide posts when using a wire saw (thin wire with teeth) and we thought we’d be creating damage rather than a repair! Instead we’re going to leave the windows in place but use the Sika products to prime both the hull and the windows before adding a layer of the UV stable Sikaflex295 at the top of the windows. We’ll get more adhesion (we hope) as well as protecting the spots where the original has degraded. We notice that newer models do in fact have a filler right to the top of the pane whereas ours had a gap.
As a temporary measure 18 months ago, we had filled this gap with whatever Sika we could get after we noticed a couple of leaks during a particularly windy sector on our passage to Tasmania between Pt Hacking and Wollongong where we actually turned back after unexpected 40kt gusting Westerlies.(You’d be familiar with those I think.) Removing that Sika is a world of fun and testament to getting the job done correctly from the outset!
We intend using black signmakers vinyl to create the new ‘framing’ rather than paint the windows. We don’t think we have the skills to paint and would likely need to get the boat into a shed which in turn would mean bringing the mast down etc, etc....
We will document this whole process as I think that we’ll all be grappling with this at some point. A horror job. Meanwhile we have plenty of VHB tape etc that will add to our ever expanding ‘spares tub’ waiting for that day when we might be glad of it.
Thanks for replying and for all your other very detailed and informative posts.
Eva
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Post by Tafika II on Mar 4, 2020 19:48:55 GMT
Eva, just be very careful with the Sikaflex Primer, 209N as it is black and difficult to remove from anything after about 1 hour. Good luck!
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Post by zofiasailing on Apr 3, 2020 20:17:44 GMT
I have one of the fixed side cabin windows slighting leaking. I have gone through this site looking at the various repairs and replacements reported, but I’m still a little fuzzy on how to cleanly remove the window. I understand all of the caulking on both the cabin and the window needs to be removed before re-installing and I have no problem with doing that. I read in one thread about using wire to go between the cabin & the window to remove the window. Is there s a specific type of wire? I assume you remove what caulking you can, force the wire between the window and the cabin and work your way around gently until it’s loose. Of those who have already done this, maybe you could help fill in the blanks for me. I am planning on re-installing the window using Sikaflex295 UV. We have tackled this very issue while on the hardstand this month. We began by attempting to remove the stern window of the portside pair using a wire-saw. We encountered something like a fiberglass post inhibiting the progress of the wire-saw so after a couple of hours and concerns about damaging the hull we decided instead to fill the gap above the existing adhesive margin. We’d observed a number of newer DS’s and they appear not to have a valley/gutter behind the edges of their windows. The application of the 2 primers for the Sika-flex 295UV is insanely messy. Mask up and create dams to contain it. Put down more protective mats/sheeting than you think you’ll need! To compensate for the loss of black painted margins around the windows we have used vinyl adhesive rather than attempting to re-paint. It would have been a process well beyond our skill set. Creating the template was very time consuming; first with paper then on to templating board before cutting the 4 strips of vinyl with a cutout window. We trimmed the outside of the vinyl frame in situ after ensuring the alignment of the ‘window’. We’re not dissatisfied with the appearance and are yet to test the efficacy at sea. Once we’ve overcome the shock of a month on the hard stand we’ll write up the project.  We are yet to get the topsides polished and fully clean-up. Sorry that this does not totally satisfy your question of the window removal. We tried and gave up. |
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Post by MalcolmP on May 5, 2020 10:49:35 GMT
Over on the Jeanneau Voyage FB group, someone just posted a link to an old Boatworks video where he installs new recessed windows using 3M VHB tape Looks pretty good method to me, only thing I was not convinced about was his recommendation to use Dowsil 795 silicon caulk for the final beading. I personally would go with Brent's recommendation and procedure for applying Sikaflex 295UV if and when I get any window leaks. |
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Post by caprarom on Jun 12, 2020 9:04:39 GMT
I found the video on the window installation process very helpful and would appreciate some additional advice please. I have a Merry Fisher 805 year 2003. The side windows need replacing. I have taken the boat to a local boat yard in Jersey but they did not know how to remove the old windows. Apparently not straightforward. They contacted Jeanneau for advice but they were less than helpful. Has anyone got experience in taking the old windows out of an 805? I have attached a photo to illustrate what needs to be removed and replaced. Any advice much appreciated.
Attachment Deleted |
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Post by caveman on Jul 11, 2021 18:19:17 GMT
Hi All. I was very happy to find this after discovering exactly the same problem. Could someone who went with re caulking without removing the windows, please could you advise how much of the 295UV was required to fill the window gap.
Thanks
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Post by Tafika II on Jul 11, 2021 23:57:22 GMT
Less than a tube per side
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Post by Trevor on Jun 20, 2022 22:56:51 GMT
Hello,
Well as predicted based on the experience of others my side windows are leaking. As I mentioned in this thread back in 2018 I knew this day would come. The port side is leaking and I notice that the gap size between the window and the fibreglass behind it gets very small at one location so caulking that will be a little challenging I suspect.
A big thanks to Brent for the very detailed write up in the Hints and Tips section. The experience of those who tackle this type of problem and go to the trouble of recording the experience makes it so much easier for those of us who are following.
I have ordered the Activator, the Primer and the 295 so sometime in the near future I will be tackling this sticky problem.
Regards,
Trevor
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Post by MalcolmP on Jun 21, 2022 7:10:51 GMT
Hello, Well as predicted based on the experience of others my side windows are leaking. As I mentioned in this thread back in 2018 I knew this day would come. The port side is leaking and I notice that the gap size between the window and the fibreglass behind it gets very small at one location so caulking that will be a little challenging I suspect. A big thanks to Brent for the very detailed write up in the Hints and Tips section. The experience of those who tackle this type of problem and go to the trouble of recording the experience makes it so much easier for those of us who are following. I have ordered the Activator, the Primer and the 295 so sometime in the near future I will be tackling this sticky problem. Regards, Trevor Good luck with the project Trevor. I expect you will do an excellent job - more photos please. |
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