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Post by chuckr on Aug 8, 2017 13:52:17 GMT
We were doing a routine inspection of the entire boat after we had a water leak on the back end of heat exchanger - we went though the entire boat from bow to stern just to make sure we were ok -
Opened the cockpit starboard locker and all fine and dry - then crawled into the back and checked the port area where the ssb turner is and all dry and fine but tried to look near rudder area and thought I saw water. pulled the emergency steering plate and the area was full of water. put a bilge pump in and got it out. 85nm and 14hours later got water again and a lot. no idea where it is coming from. looks like a haul out but anyone have any idea?
We have taken a couple of hits on the transom - first 2 years ago a hard hit in Patmos when during a pretty good blow the guy next to me decided he needed a 2nd anchor after bragging about how great his big anchor was - I asked him not to as he may cross mine and he ignored me and went out in a dink and dropped a 2nd anchor and when he tightened it he pulled my anchor out of the ground and we hit hard so hard that we just untied dock lines with engine in fwd and ran fwd to get the anchor up and we motored out trailing stern lines - other options was cut dock lines that how bad it was -- we did haul out and got a survey and no issues and transom was repair where crack was --
this year in a mild blow we were anchored in a harbor and were the only one in the area until the charter fleet arrived - one boat dropped across our anchor chain while we were out in town - next day we walked out again and came back boat was hitting the dock and a nearby boat said the boat next to us left and they noticed out boat went backwards as they pulled up their anchor - not as hard a hit but a hit.
So we will haul out in probably Marmaris for a look but anyone have any other thoughts? mine were the rudder is leaking, the teak transom is leaking or to many hits on the stern
thanks for you thoughts
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Post by chuckr on Aug 8, 2017 17:18:51 GMT
ok - an update - we got rid of the water and dried it out - no movement just sitting here in Crete - guess what we got a bit of water - so - the idea of the teak swim platform is out - now I think it is the interface between the bottom of the boat and the upper part - there is a seal with a lot of what looks like glue there - now to get to it is almost impossible (at least for an old guy like me) -
any thoughts now
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Post by sailbleu on Aug 8, 2017 19:12:23 GMT
Chuck ,
you might want to check the cap / lit on the emergency tiller hole , have someone water hose it whilst you take a look through the inside hatch . Most likely you will see the drops falling down. The rubber O-ring seal doesn't always do what it's supposed to do . Been there , done that .
I sikaflex's it because I did not have a proper sized spare O-ring at hand . Job done.
Regards
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Post by MalcolmP on Aug 9, 2017 12:51:13 GMT
ok - an update - we got rid of the water and dried it out - no movement just sitting here in Crete - guess what we got a bit of water - so - the idea of the teak swim platform is out - now I think it is the interface between the bottom of the boat and the upper part - there is a seal with a lot of what looks like glue there - now to get to it is almost impossible (at least for an old guy like me) - any thoughts now If it is the deck to hull joint - even at the bottom of the transom it should be out of the water - unless you are very loaded? But if the hull joint is below the waterline maybe you can recruit a skinny assistant to gunk up the inside with something like this: www.stayafloatmarine.com/learn-more-faq.html until you can investigate further and get a full repair done
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Post by chuckr on Aug 10, 2017 16:47:23 GMT
More of an update - sitting here we got just a little bit of water coming in - had a professional come over and take a look - of course big issue is correct and proper fix is haul out and repair BUT -- they think the water is coming in through the end of the swim platform that took the brunt of the hit on the wall and allowing water to come in when we are underway and transom is down a bit.
the temp fix to get us to Israel where we hope to spend the winter and get it fixed properly is to seal the lip with a sealant and redo the rub rail in the back as best possible
more as we progress --
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Post by vasko on Aug 11, 2017 6:20:21 GMT
More of an update - sitting here we got just a little bit of water coming in - had a professional come over and take a look - of course big issue is correct and proper fix is haul out and repair BUT -- they think the water is coming in through the end of the swim platform that took the brunt of the hit on the wall and allowing water to come in when we are underway and transom is down a bit. the temp fix to get us to Israel where we hope to spend the winter and get it fixed properly is to seal the lip with a sealant and redo the rub rail in the back as best possible more as we progress -- O had similar problem and resealing and redo the rub rail fixed the issue for me...
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Post by sailbleu on Aug 11, 2017 6:24:28 GMT
As we have the same boat I look for parallels and read comments and stories of fellow boaters very meticulously as design flaws are to be in all the boats of the same type. I told you already that I also detected water in that space behind the quadrant , and tracked it down to a leak of the cap of the the emergency tiller . Seal it properly with sikaflex and tested the waterproof of it with a waterhose inthe marina. All said and done , reading your article I yesterday took my endoscope and had an other look in the cavity , because lets face it , it is a useless cavity . Guess what ? Again there was some water in it . I never took a hit on the transom area as I alway squeeze in a huge ball fender between the stern and quay . Having said that I took a sample of the water and tested it with the salinity meter I use to check my watermaker output , it was seawater. No rainwater that came through the tiller cap . I have 3 underwaterleds installed in that cavity , maybe one is leaking a bit . Today I will do a test and have the admiral pour seawater over the swim platform whilst I check inside if water enters through the fixing bolts of the platform's ladder . It's a possibility , and when in doubt , check it out.
If it's not the ladder fix , it can only be one of the two remaining things , underwater lights or joint . I can only hope for it to be the lights. Next year I will need a haul out for AF reasons , when on the hard I will fill the space with water and see where it leaks to the outside . Chuck I hope you keep us updated on your findings .
And that leaves me to send out a call to other 40 DS owners ( there are a few ) to have a look through the emergency tiller hole - use a powerful light - and check for water in the post rudder/quadrant area. Maybe it is a design flaw of this type of boat .
Regards
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Post by sailbleu on Sept 26, 2019 8:41:37 GMT
An older topic but at last an explanation for the reason of the water in the post rudder area . I always thought it was the emergency tiller's cap that was leaking , now I know better . Time after time I mopped up that space by lowering a mop through the tiller's opening getting the quadrant completely wet with saltwater whilst pulling it up to squeeze the mop dry in a bucket . Repeating the process over and over again until on average 5 to 10 liter of water got evacuated . That means this stern location is/was salty wet , humid/damp continuously .No need to point out corrosion ruled in there . Something was definitely wrong , especially with no rain for months , and my conductivity tester showed it wasn't fresh water. But alright , 2 weeks ago the boat got on the hard for winter storage on one of the Canary islands and I was able to get the transom rub rail off . And look what I found . I used the blade of a break away knife to illustrate the problem. My intention is to clean the joint thoroughly and fill up the gaps with epoxy putty , then cover everything to above the waterline with thin fiberglass mat & epoxy to firmly seal the joint . I may even use screws to also reinforce the joint before fiber glassing . Then glue the rub rail back on with sikaflex . And also tell the admiral to not step on the rub rail anymore whilst getting in or out of the dinghy . In my view the best way to detach the rub rail from the joint . But in my other project ( emergency rudder & propulsion ) , finished , tested and approved if I say so myself) , I've added an extra feature so she doesn't have to use the rub rail anymore as a stepping stone .Will soon post or send pics to Malcolm for the H&T section . www.23hq.com/sailbleu/photo/60433441/originalwww.23hq.com/sailbleu/photo/60433467/originalwww.23hq.com/sailbleu/photo/60433473/originalwww.23hq.com/sailbleu/photo/60433478/originalRegards
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Post by rene460 on Sept 26, 2019 10:42:04 GMT
Good to find that one at last, Sailbleu. But a tricky one to repair with those sharp corners. At least that rub rail will cover the cosmetic issues so you will be able to concentrate on a sound repair.
Looking forward to seeing the hints and tips. You will be sleeping better already.
rene460
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Post by sailbleu on Sept 27, 2019 7:52:34 GMT
Yes Rene , that's on the to do list for next year . I'm sure many boaters with a similar transom setup suffer from this weak design , perhaps even without them knowing it . But then maybe they don't carry as much weight as we do . And once the water is in , it stays in because of the hull's shape .
Regards
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