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Post by hoppy on Mar 17, 2017 5:24:57 GMT
I'm currently going through the preparation work to get my SO40 meeting the Category 6 racing safety regulations and it seems to me that there might be a few regulations that require modifications that might be similar between many Jeanneau models. For example, the securing of washboards No problem. What's this about washboards complying to race safety regulations? Hoppy is referring to the safety regs that we are required to pass every year to race (in Oz but must be the same OS). I have a cat4 certificate that allows me to do short ocean races but it required me, among other things, to modify my washboard on my SF37. The cat 4 regulations state: 3.07.4(a) Companionway hatch strong securing arrangement securing hatch in closed position Operable from above and below 3.07.4(b) Blocking Devices (i) Retained hatch open or shut (I) Secured to boat by lanyard (iii) Permit exit in event of inversion I had to get my washboard (the solid Perspex variety) altered to permit a fixing mechanism that I could prove could open from inside or out and that also secured the washboard to the boat. In the end it was a rather simple piece of rope secured inside to boat passing through a jam cleat on inside of washboard up through an eyelet on the sliding hatch over the top of the washboard (and under hatch) and down the outside of the washboard to another jam cleat outside. Has satisfied the scrutineers every year. Peter And lifelines.... I'm down the boat tomorrow getting ready for its lift out on Monday, I will take some photos and send through. fyi, I also had to put a simple wire strop across the pulpit to close it in because it was too wide for the regs, I'll take a pic of that as well Peter Peter, I assume this is related to 3.12.6(d) Lifeline gap at ends not to exceed 100mm and it's where the pullpit drops down to the seat?
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Post by petermc on Mar 17, 2017 6:11:17 GMT
great idea about the thread
re pulpit you're right its the seat that causes the problem - in Cat 4 its reg 3.12.3 (a) and the requirement for the gap to be less than 360mm, unfortunately it catches out my SF37
(i) Closed bow pulpit forward of forestay OR
(ii) Forward gap open bow pulpit less than 360mm OR
(iii) Forestay in or forward of gap; gap between forestay & bow pulpit less than 360mm
the 100mm reg you mentioned is more to do with the attachment of the ends of the lifelines to pulpit and pushpit where they are secured by a line as opposed to a turnbuckle arrangement
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Post by hoppy on Mar 17, 2017 7:12:17 GMT
Ok, so I don't need to worry about it for cat 6...
I have always been wanting to do the Melbourne - Devonport race which is cat 2, but discussions on SA about the Brissy -Gladstone race changing from Cat 2 to Cat 3 has me worried that cat 2 is going to be expensive to comply with. I now kind of understand why so few yachts do the Melbourne - Devonport, whist the Launceston - Hobart is booming.
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Post by petermc on Mar 19, 2017 1:29:13 GMT
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Post by hoppy on Mar 19, 2017 11:10:38 GMT
Here are those pictures of my fix to secure the washboard in place to satisfy Cat 4 regulations: In essence its just a pair of jam cleats bolted together either side of washboard, a small indentation in top of board to help rope pass and an eyelet secured to the top hatch for the rope to run through. Either side of the rope can be freed to permit egress/ingress as required by reg. Note also the barrel bolt that was required to demonstrate the hatch could be held fast in the closed position Is the barrel bolt needed for when the washboards are fitted or just when there are no washboards? the rope setup looks nice and simple. I must remember this when I want to go for the higher Cats Did you get a pic of your pullpit strop setup? BTW you should have been in Melbourne, lovely sunny and warm autumn weather
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Post by petermc on Mar 19, 2017 12:54:14 GMT
Sorry, forgot about the pulpit modification, heres a pic. Image is not great quality because I cropped it from another larger photo below. Resolved the problem of how to "enclose the gap" by installing two eye bolts into the pulpit, facing forward on top bend on each side, and attaching a wire strop with clips either end. Added bonus was that these eye bolts now provide additional anchor points for the spinnaker halyards when moored so I don't get any more complaints about "clanging" from the rigging in a breeze. Heres the broader shot:
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Post by petermc on Mar 19, 2017 12:56:47 GMT
again...I let the weather quip go...... Interesting you need Cat6 for the bay where we only need Cat 7 for the Harbour?
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Post by sitara on Mar 19, 2017 20:35:48 GMT
Hoppy, To secure the sliding hatch, and to be able to open it from both sides, I fitted a lever/handle mechanism similar to the handles on the hatches in the cabin roof which can be opened from both sides. My local chandler had a spare handle that suited the job. The only challenge was drilling a 14 mm hole in the perspex. I used a spade bit and went very slowly. For drilling the smaller holes again go very slowly so the perspex does not melt. Cheers Rob
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Post by hoppy on Mar 19, 2017 20:37:21 GMT
again...I let the weather quip go...... Interesting you need Cat6 for the bay where we only need Cat 7 for the Harbour? I want to enjoy it whilst it lasts Your pullpit solution looks simple. I was imagining that's what you meant but I wan't sure how you would have secured it, but drilling through the pullpit and putting a ring is so obvious now. Maybe the bay needs cat 6 because it's a bigger area of water and we race further from shore. If you get in trouble and you are trailing the fleet you could not be noticed, so having flares is perhaps more necessary.
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Post by hoppy on Mar 19, 2017 20:58:17 GMT
Hoppy, To secure the sliding hatch, and to be able to open it from both sides, I fitted a lever/handle mechanism similar to the handles on the hatches in the cabin roof which can be opened from both sides. My local chandler had a spare handle that suited the job. The only challenge was drilling a 14 mm hole in the perspex. I used a spade bit and went very slowly. For drilling the smaller holes again go very slowly so the perspex does not melt. Cheers Rob Sounds like an elegant solution. I must remember the drill speed comment. Do you happen to know what safety cat is required for overnight races on the bay? 5N perhaps? or 4?
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Post by sitara on Mar 20, 2017 21:16:04 GMT
I think bay overnights are 5N, but you would have to check with the race organizers. I guess you are aware of the ORCV Beyond the Bay program, I went through it a couple of years ago and found it very useful. Rob
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Post by hoppy on Mar 20, 2017 23:23:29 GMT
I think bay overnights are 5N, but you would have to check with the race organizers. I haven't managed to even find a race. I did find that the Melbourne - Geelong race is cat 5, so maybe 5N is correct. I guess you are aware of the ORCV Beyond the Bay program, I went through it a couple of years ago and found it very useful. Rob I have seen it, but it seems to me to be more focused for sailors who have only day sailed on the bay to give them confidence to venture out.
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Post by seattle519 on Mar 21, 2017 3:03:38 GMT
The safety requirements are ever expanding based on hard lessons learned and evolving technology. For Vic-Maui Cat2 was a huge undertaking. I wouldn't suggest undertaking it unless required or you do significant offshore cruising. At least look through the list to understand their thinking. There are lots of good ideas to make all sailing safer.
Something new for Cat1, 2 and 3 is PFDs must have an integral spray-hood (which we all had). We also always wore an AIS personal locator that auto triggered on PFD inflation. They talk to the boat electronics to show real time MOB position.
I would also recommend having the entire crew take the two day Safety at Sea class. A lot of the bigger races are requiring at least 2 of the crew but we are doing 100%. As a skipper you have a legal and moral responsibility for your crew. Make them be as prepared as possible.
Go racing!
Dean
PS: Practice your MOB drill.
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Post by hoppy on Mar 21, 2017 5:00:48 GMT
The safety requirements are ever expanding based on hard lessons learned and evolving technology. For Vic-Maui Cat2 was a huge undertaking. I wouldn't suggest undertaking it unless required or you do significant offshore cruising. At least look through the list to understand their thinking. There are lots of good ideas to make all sailing safer. Something new for Cat1, 2 and 3 is PFDs must have an integral spray-hood (which we all had). We also always wore an AIS personal locator that auto triggered on PFD inflation. They talk to the boat electronics to show real time MOB position. I would also recommend having the entire crew take the two day Safety at Sea class. A lot of the bigger races are requiring at least 2 of the crew but we are doing 100%. As a skipper you have a legal and moral responsibility for your crew. Make them be as prepared as possible. Go racing! Dean PS: Practice your MOB drill. I'm surprised that the Vic-Maui is cat 2 and not cat 1. The work & expenditure required to reach cat 2, 3 and perhaps even 4 has me thinking perhaps not this year. I will do what's needed to meet cat 6 now and then I'll start looking into cat 5N. I have bought a cat 3 first aid kit now so that is at least covered for a while.
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Post by rene460 on Mar 21, 2017 11:39:22 GMT
Hi hoppy,
I presume you have a copy of the blue book which has all of the requirements set out in columns. All the requirements are listed and the ones for each category have a tick in the appropriate column.
I had to get my trailerable up to 5N for the Marlay Point. Not really unreasonable for night sailing, and I would have thought not too hard to get your larger boat to comply, more about little but important details. As you go you can see what the higher categories require, you probably meet many category 4 and 3 items already and you can just concentrate on a small list of deficiencies as you move up through each grade. It makes the job much more manageable when you can see the whole task for where you eventually want to be.
Buying the Cat 3 first aid kit ahead is good thinking, always better to have more than the minimum for such things, though when you get to the lists that require perishable items such as prescriptions, you would obviously wait until they are needed.
There are other items that can be treated the same way. As I no longer race, and sail on enclosed lake waters, I don't have to be rigid about it, but I try to comply with the more significant cat 4 items where practical rather than just the minimum legal requirements. All these lists are a minimum, not an upper limit to what you need. With some regard to your weight program, and the bay waters, a bit of extra safety equipment will not spoil your day as they say. Especially if you decide to head out through the heads for a little trip south. Your thread is reminding me to get the latest blue book and throw out my old copy, and check that I am not missing any important recent updates.
rene460
PS your thread has drawn out some very clever ideas to meet some of the requirements that can seem quite hard to impliment.
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Post by hoppy on Mar 21, 2017 12:38:13 GMT
Hi hoppy, I presume you have a copy of the blue book which has all of the requirements set out in columns. All the requirements are listed and the ones for each category have a tick in the appropriate column. I had to get my trailerable up to 5N for the Marlay Point. Not really unreasonable for night sailing, and I would have thought not too hard to get your larger boat to comply, more about little but important details. As you go you can see what the higher categories require, you probably meet many category 4 and 3 items already and you can just concentrate on a small list of deficiencies as you move up through each grade. It makes the job much more manageable when you can see the whole task for where you eventually want to be. Buying the Cat 3 first aid kit ahead is good thinking, always better to have more than the minimum for such things, though when you get to the lists that require perishable items such as prescriptions, you would obviously wait until they are needed. There are other items that can be treated the same way. As I no longer race, and sail on enclosed lake waters, I don't have to be rigid about it, but I try to comply with the more significant cat 4 items where practical rather than just the minimum legal requirements. All these lists are a minimum, not an upper limit to what you need. With some regard to your weight program, and the bay waters, a bit of extra safety equipment will not spoil your day as they say. Especially if you decide to head out through the heads for a little trip south. Your thread is reminding me to get the latest blue book and throw out my old copy, and check that I am not missing any important recent updates. rene460 PS your thread has drawn out some very clever ideas to meet some of the requirements that can seem quite hard to impliment. I have downloaded the blue book www.sailing.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/161220-Special-Regulations-Part-1-Keelboats.pdf but would like a hard copy. Where can you get a HC? I still need to get the perishables for my First Aid kit, which I think is just disprin to cover cat 6. Hopefully the only other thing outstanding to meet cat 6 that is needed is for me to use a permanent marker to put the boats name on all floating stuff. HOWEVER The blue book has one troubling section, the ground tackle for the anchor. Both the LOA and displacement charts state that I should have 10mm chain whilst I have 8mm. My 8mm chain is grade 70 which has a greater minimum breaking force & working load limit than a grade 40 10mm chain. At least the warp size is only suggested. If I am forced to change to 10mm I'm a bit screwed as the Lofrans X2 10mm gypsy is chain only...
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Post by hoppy on Mar 21, 2017 12:47:52 GMT
If I am forced to change to 10mm I'm a bit screwed as the Lofrans X2 10mm gypsy is chain only... I suppose at worst case I'll carry 5m of 10mm chain and a rope rode to meet cats 5,6 & 7. At least I can use the capstan on my windlass to make life easier than it is for racers.
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Post by seattle519 on Mar 21, 2017 14:10:27 GMT
The safety requirements are ever expanding based on hard lessons learned and evolving technology. For Vic-Maui Cat2 was a huge undertaking. I wouldn't suggest undertaking it unless required or you do significant offshore cruising. At least look through the list to understand their thinking. There are lots of good ideas to make all sailing safer. Something new for Cat1, 2 and 3 is PFDs must have an integral spray-hood (which we all had). We also always wore an AIS personal locator that auto triggered on PFD inflation. They talk to the boat electronics to show real time MOB position. I would also recommend having the entire crew take the two day Safety at Sea class. A lot of the bigger races are requiring at least 2 of the crew but we are doing 100%. As a skipper you have a legal and moral responsibility for your crew. Make them be as prepared as possible. Go racing! Dean PS: Practice your MOB drill. I'm surprised that the Vic-Maui is cat 2 and not cat 1. The work & expenditure required to reach cat 2, 3 and perhaps even 4 has me thinking perhaps not this year. I will do what's needed to meet cat 6 now and then I'll start looking into cat 5N. I have bought a cat 3 first aid kit now so that is at least covered for a while. Cat2 includes the majority of Cat1. Cat1 assumes you are going around the Cape and staying in the Roaring 40s with zero chance of help. Things like duplicate life rafts that could hold the entire crew. We were probably never more than a day or two from a freighter that could lend assistance. Be sure to measure your life line diameters. We had to replace all of ours as the boat was delivered with 5/32" and minimum required is 3/16". D
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Post by hoppy on Mar 21, 2017 20:59:06 GMT
I'm surprised that the Vic-Maui is cat 2 and not cat 1. The work & expenditure required to reach cat 2, 3 and perhaps even 4 has me thinking perhaps not this year. I will do what's needed to meet cat 6 now and then I'll start looking into cat 5N. I have bought a cat 3 first aid kit now so that is at least covered for a while. Cat2 includes the majority of Cat1. Cat1 assumes you are going around the Cape and staying in the Roaring 40s with zero chance of help. Things like duplicate life rafts that could hold the entire crew. We were probably never more than a day or two from a freighter that could lend assistance. Be sure to measure your life line diameters. We had to replace all of ours as the boat was delivered with 5/32" and minimum required is 3/16". D I'm pretty sure that the Sydney to Hobart is cat 1 and that could almost be considered coastal. I saw the lifeline requirements and was thinking I should check. I'd be surprised if mine are not already 5/32" or 4mm which is the requirement for up to 13m. Sounds like it could be an issue for SO43 and bigger yachts.
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Post by rene460 on Mar 22, 2017 6:12:14 GMT
Hi hoppy,
I believe that you are not too far from Alma Rd in St. Kilda. Boat Books, not far from Barklay St should have a hard copy of the Blue Book, but give them a ring before you go to make sure. Otherwise try Whitworths in Elizabeth St. If you still have no luck I will think of a couple more. Many changes in the industry since you were last here. Hard to beat having a hard copy of stuff you have to refer to like that.
rene460
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Post by hoppy on Mar 22, 2017 6:53:42 GMT
Hi hoppy, I believe that you are not too far from Alma Rd in St. Kilda. Boat Books, not far from Barklay St should have a hard copy of the Blue Book, but give them a ring before you go to make sure. Otherwise try Whitworths in Elizabeth St. If you still have no luck I will think of a couple more. Many changes in the industry since you were last here. Hard to beat having a hard copy of stuff you have to refer to like that. rene460 I was almost going to press print to get a double sided copy of the blue book, but getting a proper printed copy is best. I've been to boat books before so I know the place and it's an easy drive. I know Whitworths and Discount quite well and the same with Anchor Marine and Sundance in Sandy. The only chandelry I have and recollection of prior to leaving Aus was one in I think Chapel Street which I probably went to 30 years ago when I was renovating my old Mirror dinghy.
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Post by rene460 on Mar 22, 2017 9:05:37 GMT
Hi hoppy,
It is a small world. I grew up and went to high school on Chapel St. I also bought my mirror kit from the Bosuns Locker, with Frank Hammond Sailmaker up the stairs.
They both shifted to St Kilda Rd (south of the junction) with the sailmaker again upstairs. I could see them from my office window for many years. I bought all my sails for my trailerable from Frank.
Frank is now Horizon Sails in Sandringham. I am not sure if the Bosuns Locker is still in business or if Brian retired and closed.
rene460
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Post by hoppy on Mar 22, 2017 9:32:24 GMT
Hi hoppy, It is a small world. I grew up and went to high school on Chapel St. I also bought my mirror kit from the Bosuns Locker, with Frank Hammond Sailmaker up the stairs. They both shifted to St Kilda Rd (south of the junction) with the sailmaker again upstairs. I could see them from my office window for many years. I bought all my sails for my trailerable from Frank. Frank is now Horizon Sails in Sandringham. I am not sure if the Bosuns Locker is still in business or if Brian retired and closed. rene460 The name "bosuns locker" rings a very loud bell in my head.
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Post by rene460 on Mar 22, 2017 9:44:39 GMT
It was over 50 years ago that I bought and built my mirror kit! Had a four figure sail number.
rene460
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Post by seattle519 on Mar 23, 2017 5:40:31 GMT
Cat2 includes the majority of Cat1. Cat1 assumes you are going around the Cape and staying in the Roaring 40s with zero chance of help. Things like duplicate life rafts that could hold the entire crew. We were probably never more than a day or two from a freighter that could lend assistance. Be sure to measure your life line diameters. We had to replace all of ours as the boat was delivered with 5/32" and minimum required is 3/16". D I'm pretty sure that the Sydney to Hobart is cat 1 and that could almost be considered coastal. I saw the lifeline requirements and was thinking I should check. I'd be surprised if mine are not already 5/32" or 4mm which is the requirement for up to 13m. Sounds like it could be an issue for SO43 and bigger yachts. You are correct Sydney Hobart is Cat1. I'm a bone head, Vic-Maui is also Cat1, which we had to meet. The Cape and open Southern Oceans is Cat0. D
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