nico77
New Member
Posts: 5
Jeanneau Model: Sun Odyssey 40
Yacht Name: Danyrose
Home Port: Chioggia
Country: Italy
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Post by nico77 on Mar 6, 2017 9:54:15 GMT
Hi,
This is my first thread. I searched for a "Welcome Page" but I haven't found it so, please, forgive me in case I'm not following the right path...
2 weeks ago I have bought a Sun Odyssey 40 (2001) with furling mainsail. Very happy for the huge space available inside and outside (I have 3 little sons) but a bit worried about the performance (my previous boat was a Dehler 36cws, a cruising boat but quite "speedy").
I'm trying to improve the performance of the SO40 changing the mainsail, the genoa (150%) and the propeller (at the moment a 3 fixed blade is installed).This last I would like to choose on the basis of the experience of other owners of this boat.
Thank you for your support.
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Post by hoppy on Mar 6, 2017 10:22:49 GMT
I have a Flexofold 3 blade on my SO40. I'm very happy with the motoring performance. It lives up to the expectations set by this test comparison in Yachting Monthly. Download the PDF here www.flexofold.com/upload_dir/docs/Test_YachtingMonthly_low.pdfI can't compare it to the standard fixed blade as I changed props over the winter before I sailed her. I'm sure the average cruiser would not notice any sailing performance difference between different folding props, so it really is he motoring performance that is important. I ordered from Flexofold direct "For the Jeanneau Sun Odynney 40 with a Yanmar 4JH3E (55 HP by 3800 RPM, reduction 1:2,63) we would recommend a 3-blade 18x13-3R propeller." My understanding of the difference between any 2 or 3 blade prop is that the 2 blades give higher top speed whilst 3 blades give better accelleration which means that when punching into a chop, it will get back up to speed faster after being hit by waves and therfore you will get your family back to the marina quicker when the weather turns.
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Post by MalcolmP on Mar 6, 2017 11:02:53 GMT
Hi, This is my first thread. I searched for a "Welcome Page" but I haven't found it so, please, forgive me in case I'm not following the right path... 2 weeks ago I have bought a Sun Odyssey 40 (2001) with furling mainsail. Very happy for the huge space available inside and outside (I have 3 little sons) but a bit worried about the performance (my previous boat was a Dehler 36cws, a cruising boat but quite "speedy"). I'm trying to improve the performance of the SO40 changing the mainsail, the genoa (150%) and the propeller (at the moment a 3 fixed blade is installed).This last I would like to choose on the basis of the experience of other owners of this boat. Thank you for your support. Hi Nico You are very welcome, thanks for joining our forum. Please also add some photos to our gallery: goo.gl/photos/x2dFpM4Rf4ghtmJ77. You are also welcome to register (free and confidential) on the main owners database: www.jeanneau-owners.com/owners.htmlThe SO40 is a great boat and I am sure you and your sons will love her. Yes any folding or feathering propeller will significantly improve your sailing boat speed - at least by 0.5 to 0.75 knots in light to moderate winds. A good 3 blade folding propeller should work as well as your fixed prop, both in reverse and forward. Things to bear in mind in choosing a good folder is that the blades can open easily particularity when selecting reverse, a good design will have this included - for example a Variprop. For a 40 foot boat I think you need to go for 3 blade, I don't think there would be enough space to fit a larger diameter 2 blade. Critical when choosing that the gearbox ratio is specified. I have the slightly smaller SO39i with a 39hp Yanmar fitted with a feathering autoprop. This gives good sailing performance, maybe slightly more drag than a good folder, but really comes into its own when motorsailing, which I do more than I care to own up to. It is also excellent and powerful in reverse, as it totally reconfigures to have proper leading edges. It also is future proof as it has easily replaceable standard bearings, any folder or feathering prop will have wear in the long-term, some have no way of being rebuilt and will need to head for the scrap heap after a lengthy or hard service life. There are many very good folding and feathering props out there and you will get many recommendations from owns who like their own experiences the best. It seems that once people have seen the benefit from upgrading from a fixed they will not go back. They all tend to be quiet expensive maybe 1000-2000 euro, but compared with say changing sails is a relatively cheap way of gaining up to 1 knot extra speed kind regards
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Post by jlasail on Mar 6, 2017 12:19:52 GMT
I have a SO 409 with a feathering Autoprop. I compared performance between the 3 fixed blade prop supplied by Jeanneau and the Autoprop on the same boat and I measured a gain of roughly 0.5 to 0.75 knots in very similar conditions. In calm weather I can reach 8.2 knots. I am quite happy with it overall including reaction time in reverse. Initially I encountered some vibration problems, which was fixed by the manufacturer. Problem solved . Good luck with your decision , there are so many options out there.
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Post by so36idavid on Mar 6, 2017 17:25:21 GMT
I upgraded from fixed 3 blade to a three blade Flex-o-fold, I couldn't be happier. The workmanship is first class and performance is great under sail and power. As for 2 v 3 blades go with whatever the manufacturer recommends.
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Post by vasko on Mar 6, 2017 20:38:30 GMT
Go for 3B if price is OK for you 2B are for racers or if you want to save ... 2B is also beter on fuel economy , but a lot more vibrations...
If folding make sure the model has a rubber cushion for openning, or add one youself as else you will feel/hear the "clunk" sound everytime it opens for forward.
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Post by ianpowolny on Mar 7, 2017 7:39:16 GMT
Nico, We made the same changes to our 45DS. We bought a Darglow Featherstream which are very pleased with. Darglow have been a very easy company to work with and delivered our prop to Spain for us at about £2 more than UK delivery. At certain times of the year Darglow offer a 15% discount. The details for the discount are on the 'For Sale' page on this Porboard if your interested. As Malcolm says a feathering prop does give a little more drag but to be honest we never notice it. The Darglow design include stainless steel blades which are thinner than bronze. With our new sails and featheirng prop we can now sail down to 6 knots of winds. Ian
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Post by touchngo on Mar 7, 2017 8:20:15 GMT
The KiwiProp 3 blade is matched to the 56Hp 4JH3E and gives an extra 0.5 to 1.0 knot under sail. If going this route be aware that the blades are sacrificial, so it may pay to order a few spare (especially if you are planning on sailing into Ermioni. ). We are happy with ours (on our SO40). They are quite reasonably priced and far cheaper than some! Cheers, PT
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Post by erkan on Mar 7, 2017 15:30:36 GMT
I installed Maxprop (made in Italy) several years ago and I am very happy with it. Not only sailing performance increases but the reverse mode propwash improvement is significant also. As you are in Italy, I believe you can supply it with a cheaper price.
If you give engine's hp, rpm and gear ratio, any supplier will calculate the best size for you.
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Post by Spritz on Mar 7, 2017 23:05:03 GMT
I installed AUTOPROP and I am very happy, I could increase both motor and sailing speed
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Post by chuckr on Mar 9, 2017 7:47:48 GMT
When we bought our DS40 new 14 years ago and we got better speed and fuel economy than similar boats in our marina in Miami. and after a lot of miles we had it totally rebuilt last year. we love it -
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Post by loredo on Mar 9, 2017 9:25:58 GMT
My personal experience with different props over the years.
Fixed prop, cheap and reliable but under sail has a lot of drag which slows the boat under light to moderate wind. On average a folding or feathering prop can (Will!) add 0.5 to 1KN in light wind. An absolutly MUST have on a sail boat, right?
So what's the right prop for your boat (any boat for that matter)? Depends upon what you want to do with your boat.
My personal real world experience with different prop kinds.
Folding props have the tendency to not open correctly when there develops growth on them. Furthermore, in reverse their performance is not really good becuase by their design they will not open the blades completly because the water is pushing on them on the back side of the blades. Advantages of the folding prop are: very good under sail since they add minimal drag and their relatively low price. A lot of racing boats use this type of prop.
The feathering props I've had only the Maxprop's on three different boats but talking with friends with different types of feathering props the experiences seem very similar amongst them. Feathering props add only minimal more drag than a folding prop. Above the folding prop, the feathering props perform much better in reverse since they "turn the blades around" and virtualy provide the same thrust in forward and reverse. Brand new, out of the box, the world is perfect. Yet, over the years the feathering (folding also) props have the tendency to develop play in the feathering mechanism. This in turn means noisy operation due to the blades vibrating but most of all the cutlass bearing will need replacement every 1-2 seasons. In addition to this already big negative, the blades of the feathering props are flat. This means less thrust than a fixed or folding prop at any given engine RPM. Or yet in other words, higher fuel consumption.
My current SO 49 had a fixed prop. I went to a Maxprop. As expected, the boat gained 07-1 Kn in light winds. BUT only 400 engine hours later the "usual" dance with the feathering props started. Noisy operation and cutlass bearing worn after just one season. At first I wanted to rebuild the Maxprop. The price for rebuilding the max was close to a new prop. At 600 engine hours I could stand this no longer.
At that point I went with the Bruntons Autoprop. I'm now in the fourth season with this prop. Keep in mind, four years is not a lot of experience but personally I see a trend here. Last week I hauled the boat and the cutlass bearing has zero play. The blades have also zero play. Nice... The advantage of the Brunton is that the blades are not flat but are shaped like a fixed prop. Compared to the Maxprop, the boat reaches the same speed as with the Maxprop but on average with 3-400 RPM's less. This means less fuel consumption. On my boat that's 30% less fuel used with the Autoprop. Less RPM means also less noise. The downside of the Brunton is more drag than a feathering-folding prop. Compared to the Maxprop I've lost 0.2-0.4Kn in light air.
Where the Autoprop really shines is motorsailing. In those very light summer winds in the Med with just 1000-1200 RPM and full sails the boat can do above 7.5Kn EASY using 1.5L fuel and hour.
No prop is perfect or does it provide all the advantages in one package. You need to pick the one that fits your needs best. I hope this provides you a bit of help taking your decision.
Loredo
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Post by erkan on Mar 9, 2017 21:36:29 GMT
Hi Loredo, 30% fuel efficiency is a big difference between propellers whith same dimensions. Is this a calculated theoretical value or did you measure it? You may have less rpm but higher consumption and speed with a bigger propeller. Erkan
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Post by hoppy on Mar 10, 2017 8:41:10 GMT
Personally I can not see why anyone would choose anything but a folding prop to replace a fixed prop. Folding are generally cheaper than feathering They are mechanically simpler and often don't require servicing or lubrication They perform better going forward with higher top speeds which should mean lower revs for the same speed and thus more economical. Going forward is probably what cruisers do 99% of the time they are using the engine. In the test, the bolard pull is stronger. Not quite sure where this is an advantage, maybe this could equate to punching into chop??? It's not a surprise that folding should be superior as designers of folding have more scope for creating an efficient blade shape, whilst feathering blades need to be flat. Given that the 3 blades of a feathering prop are still out in the water flow, they could not be as slippery when sailing and perhaps they could catch something that will slow the boat down or even foul the prop when you start the motor. The "downsides" of folding seem to be reverse bollard pull and stopping. I personally after 6 years with a Flexofold, I don't see any issue with it's inferior reverse performance. I can get more than enough speed when reversing to my dock. When going forward and wanting to stop, I know my boat and its stops no problem. Perhaps if I had a better reverse performing prop I would use less revs to stop, but I aim my boat at a dock at a speed I know I can stop at. No hero late braking for me Finally, prop walk. Personally I think that it IS a good thing. People should learn to love and embrace prop walk The first time I ever too Jessabbe away from the dock, an experienced skipper taught me how I could do a 360 degree turn in little more than the boats length by a combination of rudder hard to starboard bursts of forward and prop walk from reverse bursts. When I have a choice of which side to approach a dock from, I choose the port side because I can use the prop walk to kick the arse in. When I come in with the dock to starboard, I arrive at the dock at a different angle and do other things to compensate for the arse being kicked out. I would never give up my prop walk and no I don't have a bow thruster and I'm mostly solo when docking.
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Post by vasko on Mar 10, 2017 10:43:37 GMT
ahaaa My general rule is : Cheaper is better - when the price is the same look at the quality e.g. I went for Eliche-Radice 2B, folding - and also overproped from 16x12 to 17x13 - the Eliche-Radice prop do not have a rubber cushions and make annoying "clunk" sound when opening in forward - after the first season I designed and added myself cushions ( holes, rings and hot silicon gun ) and all is good for 2 seasons now boat has very good power in choppy sea and in flat sea does nearly 8kts on engine - which is amazing for my 34 feet crab pod - in simple words I LOVE OVERPROPPING things that I have learned : 1. over-propped is good +1 in both dimensions 2. if money are not issue more blades is better - go for 3B may be 4B ( I like Eliche-Radice/Volvo design) // and offtopic - but related to under engine: 3. never-ever again 3cyl engine - planning to repower with chinese made 4cyl or beta 4cyl 4. the actual BIG issue is the not prop itself but the fouling with barnacles - still hasn't found a cheap reliable way to fix this issue except diving every 2 weeks and clean it by hand.
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Post by loredo on Mar 10, 2017 10:59:20 GMT
Hi Loredo, 30% fuel efficiency is a big difference between propellers whith same dimensions. Is this a calculated theoretical value or did you measure it? You may have less rpm but higher consumption and speed with a bigger propeller. Erkan Erkan, my fuel numbers are all hand calculated and verified over several hundred engine hours. With the Maxprop @ 2850 R's = Boat speed (GPS) 7.8-8.0 Kn = 7.8 L/H With the Autoprop @ 2500 R's = Boat Speed (GPS) 8.0-8.2 Kn = 5.2L/H Anyone who switched from any prop to the Bruntons Auto will confirm the fuel savings. Since I got mine, several of my friends did the switch too (From various props) and all confirmed the fuel savings number in the 30% range. More efficient balde shape /prop... Anyhow, investing the money into a new prop for fuel savings alone makes no sense in my case. I do not burn that much fuel to regain any of the money. Extended cruise range between fill-up and less Rpm/ noise on board is more important to me. Combine that with decent sail performance in light wind and the lack of problems with the cutlass bearing. I'm not going back! Just to make clear, I'm in no way affiliated or involved with Bruntons. Just a happy customer.
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nico77
New Member
Posts: 5
Jeanneau Model: Sun Odyssey 40
Yacht Name: Danyrose
Home Port: Chioggia
Country: Italy
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Post by nico77 on Mar 10, 2017 11:01:10 GMT
Thank you for all your feedbacks! I hope to give some useful contribution to the forum in the coming months...
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Post by dbostrom on Mar 29, 2017 23:27:52 GMT
A little late to the party here, but I'll add that our boat has been equipped with a Flexofold for the past 6 years and the mechanism is still silky-smooth both in operation and when fondling it when out of the water. And I add the caveat that just the other day, for the first time ever (as far as I know) the prop failed to open in a tight spot, but neurotic levels of post-trauma in and out of water examination of the prop seem to indicate it was jammed by a foreign object.
For any of these regardless of make or design: a annual disassembly and reassembly (if boat lives in salt water) will make things much easier when it comes to needing to disassemble and repair. Not sure about others but the Flexofold requires about 1/2 hour to take apart and about the same to reassemble, all of which can be done while the prop is on the shaft.
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davidj
Junior Member
Posts: 18
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Post by davidj on Apr 9, 2017 11:30:05 GMT
I have a DS 39 with a 18'' Gori prop the boat has not moves since last oct its a new boat to me never sailed her before. so i would think she has a dirty hull . we have just sailed her from Plymouth to Milford Haven west wales = 200mil we motor sailed for for the trip head or main sail beating to wind most of the way. first day 6hrs second day 11hrs 3rd day 11 hrs we used 115 ltrs of fuel at max 2.5 rpm my reconing that gave us 1.8 ltrs per hr usage i would call it 2 ltrs per hr .
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Post by captmichael on Apr 10, 2017 0:17:14 GMT
I have a 2012 45DS and installed a 4 blade max prop. Very happy and notice in heavy chop we keep going. Cruise under power at 7 knots.
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