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Post by seattle519 on May 15, 2016 16:37:19 GMT
In preparation for our Vic-Maui race this summer we have been extensively modifying the boat. I printed a copy of the Yanmar engine specification sheet and notice a dimension that alluded to a "second optional" 125 amp alternator. It is available for the new 4JH common rail electronic engines. Perhaps this is common knowledge else where but no one around here including our dealer or apparently Jeanneau US had any idea. A local Yanmar dealer contacted Yanmar, got a part number and found that the local distributor had one on the shelf half a mile down the road. Purchase price was $886 USD.
I have owned an aerospace manufacturing company for 27 years and in my professional opinion the Yanmar kit is exceedingly well engineered and manufactured. The custom brackets are robust and fit perfectly. Everything mechanical was included in the kit. I took my time so the install was 3-4 hours. I had to trim a little foam insulation and its plastic backing on the starboard side to make room for the repositioned fuel filter.
So now the hard part, the electrical connections. The original alternator charged the five house, four thruster and one engine start batteries simultaneously. How do you hook two alternators together so they charge in unison and share the load equally?
Dean  i127.photobucket.com/albums/p123/alphadean/20160513_212023.jpg |
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Post by hoppy on May 16, 2016 6:15:57 GMT
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Post by Trevor on May 16, 2016 9:56:24 GMT
Hi Dean,
Nice installation. As you say, now for the tricky part. I would suggest the Balmar MC-612 dual which is designed for two alternators on the one engine charging the same battery bank or banks. I have taken a little snippet from the website for your consideration.
The Balmar Max Charge MC-612-DUAL is designed for use in single engine / dual alternator applications where both alternators are being used to charge the same large battery bank.
The MC-612-DUAL provides two field output connectors, two power input connectors and two system ground connections, making it pos- sible to use two standard wiring harnesses when connecting to two alternators.
The MC-612-DUAL features selectable preset programs for standard flooded, deep cycle flooded, Optima, gel, and AGM batteries, as well as a universal factory program for all battery types and a special pro- gram for halogen systems. In addition, the MC-612-DUAL offers a broad range of advanced programming features described later in this manual.
You can see the website here......http://www.balmar.net/?product=regulator-mc-612-dual-h
Nice project...good luck with it.
Regards,
Trevor
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Post by seattle519 on May 18, 2016 4:21:28 GMT
Trevor,
After much digging I have to agree with your suggestion. The internal regulators have to be deactivated which is a common procedure for those that know what they are doing. Then it is just hook up the new regulator and everything should be fine...
One thing I want to learn more about is how do they not over charge, say the start battery, when charging a very low house battery bank. Isolators, diodes? I assume the factory did something since the one alternator was already charging all ten batteries.
The wiring on the boat is amazingly complex but well executed with high quality components.
Dean
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Post by Trevor on May 18, 2016 9:12:16 GMT
Hi Dean, A couple of points I think may be worth considering. 1. Usually the house batteries are the ones that need serious recharging as they are the batteries that are most likely to be deeply discharged. For that reason the battery sensing should come off the house bank. 2. It is likely that the three banks are connected for charging purposes by a FET (field effect transistor) isolator. A FET isolator has very little forward voltage drop and for the purposes of our argument can be considered to connect the batteries directly in parallel. 3. If simple diodes are used for isolation, the forward voltage drop ( about 0.6 volt) of the diodes will compromise the charging of the start battery and the thruster batteries. 4. The charging profile of the house bank will go through the various phases of the multiphase regulator and if the house bank is deeply discharged it will take some time for the bulk charge phase to complete. That simply means that if the FET isolator is used, the start battery and the thruster batteries will also go through those phases but at a slower rate than they could if they were the only batteries being charged. In my view, they will not be overcharged but simply brought up to full charge slowly. 5. The exception to point 4 would be if the start battery or the thruster bank were different chemistries to the house bank. In that case you may need a Balmar Digital Duo charge to separately set the charging profile for that particular type of battery. 6. Another issue worth considering - the maximum charge current of AGM batteries is about 30% of the AH capacity of the battery bank. If for example your house bank has 5 x 90 AH batteries (450AH) and they are AGMs, the absolute maximum recommended charging current will be about 135 amps. You will have plenty of capacity to charge so perhaps the temperature sensors should be installed on the house bank to ensure the regulator will back off the charge if the batteries get too warm. I would also put the temperature sensors on the alternators. I hope this helps. Also, I have absolutely nothing to do with Balmar but I have a Balmar alternator, a Balmar regulator and a Balmar digital duo on my boat so I keep referring back to stuff I have a little experience with.  Also, if you need some help with the detail, the technical support from Balmar is in my view extremely good. I have had a couple of tricky questions over the years and those guys are very, very helpful and informative. Trevor |
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Post by john22 on Oct 7, 2018 13:27:49 GMT
Dean,
Thank you for making this post. I am impressed with how clean and neat your engine area is. Yanmar’s second alternator kit is a deep secret on the northeast coast of US. At recent Newport boat show, none of the dealer or distributor personnel at the show knew of this product/solution. With your post I was able to look further and find it.
i put it on a Yanmar 4JH57, where the small engine box required relocating the “on engine” fuel filter, and bumping out the box slightly.
All seems well now. Thanks for sharing your success.
John
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Post by seattle519 on Oct 7, 2018 19:25:15 GMT
After three years, 1300 engine hours and 13,000 miles our five stock lead/acid house batteries are more than ready to be replaced. With all the long distance racing and cruising it has been easy to run the batteries down way to low and never enough engine charging to get them back to 100%.
The four AGM thruster batteries (stock) seem to be fine. The most use they get is when we are offshore and carry the extra freezer which hooks into their 24vdc output and also to power the water maker. The single lead/acid start battery also seems to be fine.
After installing the second Yanmar alternator we tried a couple different things including disconnecting the internal regulators but never had confidence with what we were doing. We finally left the alternators stock and reconfigured the wiring to the boat's stock isolator so one alternator charged the house and start batteries and the second alternator charged the thruster batteries.
The boat has two Christec 120vac 40amp chargers (YPO12-40OE) which have adjustable settings. I think they are hooked together to charge all the batteries. They have already been charging different types of batteries so I'm thinking we can change the house batteries to AGM and leave the start battery. Or would it be best to have all AGM?
Any insight into using Christec chargers or using isolators to control charging would be helpful.
Dean
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Post by svsimple on Oct 30, 2018 17:19:06 GMT
Dean, I have the same engine (4JH80) and my local dealer quoted me a price of almost $6,000 for the parts alone for this 2nd alternator!
Can you tell me what reseller you worked with to get these parts? Also, to confirm, they were Yanmar parts, correct?
Thanks!
Wil
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Post by chuckr on Nov 4, 2018 7:50:37 GMT
We have a DS40 - built 2000 launched 2003 - we have been full time live aboard cruisers for the past 11 years - we have sailed most of the Carib, a 2 handed Atlantic crossing, circum nav Black Sea and most of the Med - now in Herzliya Israel for the winter - We have a Jh4e engine with a 150 amp alternator feeding 6 house batteries (trojan t105) and 550w solar array.
I read most of your posting and my first thought was why no solar? 5 house batteries? Why the emphasis on engine only power with multiple alternators. We were in Trini a number of years ago and couple came in after a crossing and had 2 alternators and both went bad on their crossing. They just enough solar to run lights an charge a couple of items in the salon but not enough to run the autopilot. It was couple with 2 small kids and the couple had to hand steer for well over a week -
On our crossing we used a total of 18 gals of diesel and most of that was outside of Horta when we had zero wind. Our solar and batteries carried us and the autopilot across the Atlantic.
just our thoughts |
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Post by puravida35 on Nov 4, 2018 14:33:33 GMT
Maybe solar not as applicable in Pacific Northwest?
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Post by chuckr on Nov 5, 2018 7:12:27 GMT
Maybe solar not as applicable in Pacific Northwest? Sorry - I throught this was about a race to Maui? ie long distance not just a PNW issue. |
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Post by MartyB on Nov 6, 2018 5:38:57 GMT
Initial post was re Vic-Maui race. Then another person pulled up old post and asked a question.
As to solar here in the PNW-US. Yes it can work, especially in the summer months. Winter a bit more hap hazard as to how well it will work etc. We went close to 45 days this last summer a few times with no rain clouds to speak of. Winter months, if you get two cloudless +80% sky days a month you are doing well!
Marty
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