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Post by hoppy on Apr 21, 2016 7:57:13 GMT
for no particular reason I was thinking about how could I sail my yacht to the Panama canal from Australia without taking the southern ocean route and then up the south american coast (yes, it's just stupid bored thinking). Anyway, it lead me to thinking how our boats could be made to sail better into a "heavier" winds.
On my boat, I find I can sail with a full genoa into a true wind of around 17 knots, seeing about 23-25 apparent, pointing 35 degrees and making 6 or so knots (or something close to those figures). My Genoa is 5 years old and I think 130%.
Beyond that wind speed I need to start reefing if I'm trying to beat. Once the wind is 25 knots, I'm probably at 2 "reefs" in the genoa and maybe the same number in the main and for obvious reasons I'm not able to point anywhere near as high.
This has me wondering that if you sail in a region where you find yourself regularly sailing in such conditions whether a change in your sail plan could be a good idea?
Perhaps instead of a large overlapping genoa, it would be better to have a smaller non overlapping "no. 3" sail on the roller. Perhaps you can have the genoa track on the cabin top for this sail which could allow you to perhaps point much higher in the lighter winds than ever possible with the standard sails. You could alternatively fit a self tacker.
With the smaller sail, you could point much higher than when using the rolled in genoa. To keep the boat balanced as the wind picks up will require that the main gets reefed first.
The reefed smaller sail will be much better in "storm" condition than the larger sail.
The trade off would of course be light wind performance and off the wind performance, but that can be cured by having a code 0 and other asymetrics.
Any thoughts?
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Post by On y va on Apr 21, 2016 19:48:47 GMT
If you have a tri-radial genoa, reefing makes the shape much worse than reefing a "normal" cross cut genoa. So if you have a tri-radial...... Excellent for full sail, not so good for reefed sailing.
Next problem with light footed boats like ours is that there is not enough flexibility in sail settings to react quickly and adequately; the reason I made/fitted a permanent cutter stay with furling stay sail. Only two weeks ago I experienced how easy and good that works, in 25 -28 knots of wind. One reef in the main, genoa in, staysail out, running fine at 6,5 knots up wind and my beer can not even falling over! WHat more do you wish for.
Also, days on end beating upwind in strong winds in a SO40.....I think stepping over the side will become a tempting prospect. These boats are just not comfy in these conditions. I have done 2 days (54 hours) up wind with my SO40 to Sardinia.....not much fun. 4 days up wind from Palma to Palermo (with up to 35 knots of wind) in an Oyster 46.....not super comfy, but very do-able. We could still cook ok, eat fairly normally and feel fairly relaxed. The difference between 8 tonnes and 18 tonnes.
Secondly, for your purpose one could choose the equatorial counter current route to come back from Asia/Aussie to the Americas. But it has a much lower rate of current than the equator route (coconut run) and as it is a very shallow current and therefore does not guarantee favourable winds from behind at all times. But, it does avoid the higher latitutes and consequent weather conditions of the Southern Ocean. I truly believe our SO40´s are not made for Southern Ocean long term beatings. I have several friends who sailed these latitudes and it is not to be underestimated. Then you really need some sturdier boat like a HR, Contest, Najad or Oyster or similar.
A storm jib, in my view is pretty useless item really. Everybody probably has one, the majority unused and still unpacked in their bags under some bed in their boat. Too much hassle as you are usually too late to set it. Again, a cutter stay with furlable staysail is a much preferable option in my view (and experience).
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Post by MartyB on Apr 22, 2016 3:12:53 GMT
Then my view, not that I have gone off shore....but the multiple days racing in winds about 30-45 knots.....One needs a sail smaller than a 100-105% of the fore triangle amount for these winds. I would like a 70-75% luff height, with a 100 or so LP. I have tracks on cabin top that works really well for a storm jib and my 105% fore triangle #3. Granted this is only Salish Sea/Puget sound up into the lower part of BC canada.......Offshore would be similar IMHO.
Marty
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Post by hoppy on Apr 22, 2016 7:45:33 GMT
OYV ok, it was probably silly to refer to the Pacific crossing the wrong way. Perhaps a more sensible cruise for our boats, that we could want to try to make them more suitable for could be in the Aegean with the Meltemi blowing from the north. Heading back north can be a hard slog. Some days it's blowing so hard that you will stay at anchor, some days it's nice sailing and some days it's sailable but with a "couple of reefs" in the genoa, windward progress is not so good. Having the boat setup better for the later conditions or the conditions you mentioned, is what I was thinking of. Only two weeks ago I experienced how easy and good that works, in 25 -28 knots of wind. One reef in the main, genoa in, staysail out, running fine at 6,5 knots up wind and my beer can not even falling over! WHat more do you wish for. Just as a yacht heals over more with old baggy sails, I assume roll reefing the genoa has the same affect. So in such conditions, having an #3 & 2 (or 3) reefs in the main, instead of a rolled up #1 will give me the same comfort as you report. If the wind picks up, yes the jib needs to be reefed but it will still be much better than the 135% A storm jib, in my view is pretty useless item really. Everybody probably has one, the majority unused and still unpacked in their bags under some bed in their boat. Too much hassle as you are usually too late to set it. Again, a cutter stay with furlable staysail is a much preferable option in my view (and experience). Yes, probably 100% true... My idea of the smaller headsail would be for it to be pretty much permanently on the roller (Perhaps if you are doing a tradewinds leg and have the #1 onboard, fit the larger sail before you depart) and whilst a reefed #3 will not be as good as your setup, it will still be miles better than what most people have to use when the wind gets heavy. If you currently have just the 2 whites on board, your configuration is probably the cheapest and best way to safely deal with high winds (i.e. not needing to fit a storm sail over the roller) but if you have a Code 0 on board (or like me "Code 1"), then fitting a smaller genoa on the roller will give you a wider wind range that your sails are effective for, without the additional hardware costs. So it would probably be a significantly cheaper upgrade. The "savings" could be put towards a more inboard jib track for better pointing (I assume) or for self tacking. |
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Post by On y va on Apr 22, 2016 7:58:48 GMT
hoppy: I think there is no general or golden rule here. You have to very much look at the characteristics of the SO40, rather than something "in general". The SO40´s need pressure forward. So, you reef from back to front and weight distribution wise, you need as much of the heavy weights as close as possible to the mast (spare anchors, towing lines, heavy spare parts, tools, etc.).
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Post by jdl01 on Apr 24, 2016 22:09:41 GMT
Hi Hoppy,
I am not a fan of full hoist blades or#3s on masthead or 7/8 rigs when going to weather in rough conditions.
The upper leech opens up and rags as the boat pounds into the oncoming seas, robbing you of power. A shorter hoist on a pennant will overcome most of this and reduce heeling. Given free choice, I would go again with a cutter rig- with a detachable inner forestay for inshore cruising. Cheers - Jim
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Post by dslittle on Apr 25, 2016 22:21:14 GMT
We had a dynemma inner forestry fittied and got an upwind sail to hank onto it. We don't like sailing upwind but the new sail layout has let us point MUCH higher and sail MUCH better when we 'have' to. Actually, it has made upwind sailing quite enjoyable!!!
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Post by so40gtb on May 7, 2016 11:59:53 GMT
We've had good performance from our #4 yankee, which we put on when the wind will be above 20 kt apparent. But, yes, that's a change of sail attached to the furler and not something that we would do when underway, if at all avoidable.
--Karl
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