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Post by teodoro on Feb 5, 2016 17:37:09 GMT
I'm willing to provide a gift to my 36i (and to myself....) with a new propeller!
I'm currently hesitating between a Flexofold 3B and an Autoprop. My understanding so far is: - Autoprop: better peformance motoring and motorsailing, including reverse. On the opposite slightly (?) worse sailing and definitely more expensive - Flexofold: widely used, good improvements sailing - and cheaper. But less effective in reverse (mooring...) and probably more broadly under engine
Anyone has experience in comparing the two?
Also one more question around prop sizing: I've seen in the forum that many are using the 16x12-3R Flexofold on a 36i (standard Yanmar 3YM30). What about the Autoprop? What is the right size for my boat?
Best Teo
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Post by hoppy on Feb 5, 2016 18:24:13 GMT
I can't compare, but I have been happy with the way my Flexofold 3B has performed. According to this test, the Flexofold gives better forward speed than the Autoprop. www.flexofold.com/upload_dir/docs/Test_YachtingMonthly_low.pdfI reverse into my dock at the marina and also med moor occasionally, sometimes needing a bit of speed to counter a strong cross breeze and have never felt underpowered. It stops great when reversing although I'm not not sure about stopping when going forward as I never do that.
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Post by vasko on Feb 5, 2016 20:31:29 GMT
I'm extremely happy price/quality from my 17/13 Eliche-Radice 2B
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Post by seattle519 on Feb 5, 2016 20:46:57 GMT
We have a Flexofold 3B 20x14 LH SD. No problems and it has plenty of reverse to stop our 32,00 pounds.
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Post by Tafika II on Feb 5, 2016 20:59:28 GMT
There are a few threads on htis website to review . If you are interested in the Flexofold, you will need your engine model, shaft size and gear ratio. Suggest you contact Flexofold directly at: Keld Willberg Flexofold ApS Bramdrupvej 50 DK-6040 Egtved Email: KW@Flexofold.com Tel. +45 75 55 43 46 Fax +45 75 55 43 66
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Post by sitara on Feb 5, 2016 21:02:50 GMT
Teo I put an Autostream (feathering prop) on my SO36i, The sailing improvement was fantastic, especially pointing and I get at least another 0.75 knots boat speed. I chose the Autostream over the Flexofold (my second choice) as it gave me the ability to adjust pitch. Rob
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Post by kev on Feb 6, 2016 0:52:50 GMT
If you are still using the original 36i fixed prop at the moment, I promise that you won't regret changing to a folding or feathering prop.
I fitted a Flex-o-fold to my 2007 36i after using it for 3 seasons with the standard fixed (after much dithering like everybody over the advantages/disadvantages claimed by the various prop types). In my opinion it is truly excellent and worth every penny/cent/euro. I don't unfortunately have any experience of other types of folding/feathering prop to be able to give you a comparison of the alternatives.
I bought the prop direct from the manufacturer, and for the 36i and standard Yanmar 3YM30 combination was advised to use the 16D*12P*3R which is the factory fit by Jeanneau.
(NB another supplier told me that it would alternatively be possible to fit a 17D*11P*3R Flex-o-fold. The difference apparently being that the 17 would give better top speed, whilst the 16 would give better astern performance. I'm no expert, so you'll need to check with a supplier if going that route.)
I don't regret fitting the 16 as we're not short of top speed, which in fact seems to be limited more by hull speed. I can easily get 7 knot through the water (genuine as I've calibrated against GPS SOG) at cruising rpm (3000 rpm with a clean hull). Speed doesn't increase much from that even if I cane the engine.
When sailing, I reckon that the Flex-o-fold gives the best part of 1 knot improvement in speed over the fixed. I don't have any before/after measurements to objectively verify this so it's based on subjective observations of the log speed in comparable wind/wave conditions. But e.g last year managed Ramsgate to the Orwell, 54 nm in 8 hours including slipping lines and tying up - that's an average of 6 knots!! OK the tide and wind were perfectly in our favour, but we were still achieving a believable 7 to 8+ knots through the water for a good length of time.
One of the disadvantages I hadn't appreciated when changing from fixed prop to folding is because of its smaller diameter and finer pitch than the standard fixed prop, it is very easy to redline the engine if you don't pay attention to the sound or use the tacho. You'd soon get used to it though.
Stopping and going astern from going forward is not a problem with the flex-o-fold. I had plenty of practice in close quarters manoeuvring on the Dutch canals last year when waiting in the general melee for locks to open. THERE IS ONE PROVISO though. Be prepared to give a burst of higher astern revs initially to start the deceleration and then reduce the revs to a more normal amount. The reason is that if the shaft is stationary even for a moment when you have forward motion, the prop will fold and it relies on the centripetal forces to open it before it bites to pull astern. This caught me out many times initially if the boat was drifting slowly forward, as I had been used to giving just a trickle of astern power to check the motion - then when nothing happened there was a frantic scrabble for the throttle to rev the engine. Again, you'll quickly adapt as long as you pay attention and respond to what you see and feel the boat doing.
Prop walk with the Flex-o-fold is just as predictable, and it's still possible when turning to starboard to turn in a little over the boats length using bursts of forward and astern power.
One other thing to watch out for. If left unused in the water for a long period over the winter, the Flex-o-fold WILL seize up. Not a major problem since next use of the engine will force it fully open, where it will then stay. The blades are all geared together so the prop will always be in balance as they can't seize asymmetrically, but it will need to be periodically dismantled and cleaned. I've found that greasing the mechanism (other than the bearing pins) doesn't make any difference - the grease just seems to harden up and provide something for any grot to stick to and clog the mechanism.
Enjoy the extra performance!
Kevin.
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Post by so36idavid on Feb 6, 2016 6:10:18 GMT
Kevin,
Thanks for the excellent report. I have the same boat and I'm thinking of making exactly the same switch. Do you happen to remember what you paid for the new prop?
Thanks David
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Post by kev on Feb 6, 2016 15:28:17 GMT
Hi David,
I bought direct from the manufacturer and paid 12,881 DKK including tax and shipping in March 2010. There is an excellent UK agent mentioned above as well. Unfortunately (or fortunately for me) the Kroner to sterling exchange rate at the time worked in my favour and I was able to get the prop much, much cheaper by going direct, even when allowing for shipping cost. I say unfortunately, because where possible I try to favour local business as I value being able to call on their expertise, and I am generally happy to pay a premium - but at the time the difference was way to much to give away like this (I can't remember the amount exactly, but north of GBP100).
Very painless dealing with the manufacturer. I had quite an email dialogue to answer my questions about prop sizing for the engine etc - all in English! So good service and a happy customer.
Kev.
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Post by sleighride on Feb 6, 2016 15:57:59 GMT
I would urge you to consider the MaxProp before making your decision. I had mine installed after I purchased my DS43 in 2002, and have been delighted with the performance, especially the stopping power in reverse, and under power; and of course the three-blade model I have folds under sail as it is designed to do.
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Post by MalcolmP on Feb 6, 2016 18:21:14 GMT
Very happy with my Autoprop after 7 seasons and around 1700 hours, very frugal on fuel (especially when motorsailing), good power ahead and astern and little propwalk. As noted above basically all folding and featherers will make a big difference on sailing performance and providing they have been correctly calculated/specified for dia size and pitch based on boat displacement/engine power/gearbox ratio, should all work well enough for motoring. Like all things with moving parts though some maintenance and eventually wear will occur, but overall a small price to pay for being able to sail that much better. Keep the old fixed as a spare - just in case.
Always visually double check you gearbox ratio on the makers plate before ordering - gearboxes are sometimes changed even on the same model - so don't just presume that yours will be a certain ratio based on tables or spec sheets etc.
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Post by hoppy on Feb 6, 2016 19:11:48 GMT
Keep the old fixed as a spare - just in case. I totally agree with that
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Post by vasko on Feb 6, 2016 19:37:35 GMT
Hi David, I bought direct from the manufacturer and paid 12,881 DKK including tax and shipping in March 2010. There is an excellent UK agent mentioned above as well. Unfortunately (or fortunately for me) the Kroner to sterling exchange rate at the time worked in my favour and I was able to get the prop much, much cheaper by going direct, even when allowing for shipping cost. I say unfortunately, because where possible I try to favour local business as I value being able to call on their expertise, and I am generally happy to pay a premium - but at the time the difference was way to much to give away like this (I can't remember the amount exactly, but north of GBP100). Very painless dealing with the manufacturer. I had quite an email dialogue to answer my questions about prop sizing for the engine etc - all in English! So good service and a happy customer. Kev. agree 100% I got mine last year from www.segelladen.de/ instead from UK and the price worked a lot cheaper if I remember correctly in the area of 40% ....
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Post by teodoro on Feb 7, 2016 19:18:23 GMT
Thanks to everyone for the great - and detailed feedback! I'm definitely going to change my prop this year.... still a last minute decision between the 2, but I understand that at the end I'll be happy in any case. Sounds good!
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Post by alex1949 on Feb 7, 2016 22:12:41 GMT
Just to tell you that there are more propellers manufactures. I for example am very pleased with my 3B KIWI feathering and so is my bank manager for it's low price.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2016 17:42:29 GMT
Yep, don't forget the Kiwi. Best price and very good performance we have with our SO37.
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Post by Trevor on Feb 8, 2016 22:08:49 GMT
We have a Seahawk Slipstream 3 bladed folding prop on Sapphire. I am no expert but it seems to work very well to me. Good reverse thrust provided it is given plenty of grunt to start with.
Regards,
Trevor
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Post by heatherina on Feb 9, 2016 8:17:11 GMT
Our new prop is being machined next week. Darglow Featherstream, 3 blade feathering. We chose this one as I think it suited our needs.
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