Cutless bearing size for 40ds

[erkan]

I am about to start antifouling and some maintenance work on the hard. I have limited time, so I have to make all spares ready beforehand.

I will change the cutless (cutlass?) bearing as well. I need the dimensions for the new one. My shaft is 30 mm in dia. Engine is Yanmar 55hp.

Happy new year,
Erkan

[On y va]

You basically gave the answer yourself. You have a 30mm shaft, so a 30mm cutless bearing. The most standard tube length is 120mm.

What you do need to ask yourself is do you want to go for a bronze outer tube or a composite one. Either way, try not to drill through the rubber when drilling the holes for the securing bolts. Also, but depending what prop you have, make photos of how it was and if you have say a Maxprop, pin mark the positions. Makes life a lot easier afterwards.
Last but not least, I always place the red plastic protection tube in the Volvo shaft seal when undertaking this sort of work. Better safe than sorry.

Good luck and happy New Year!

[alex1949]

Hi,

 Not that simple, beside from the size of shaft (30mm) and length needed you should know the inner size of the CB housing. For the 35 mm shaft there are two different but close measurements you must measure it ,otherwise get the bigger one but than you'll have to machine it to size, length is no problem you just cut it yourself to meet the old one.

[erkan]

Thanks,

Yes my question was the outer diameter and the length. So the length is no problem, I will cut it.

But now there is another parameter; material. What is reccommened, composite or brass?

Brgds,
Erkan

[sailbleu]

Erkan ;

if you still need the correct sizes let me know , I can give it to you tomorrow as I still have an old one lying here (workshop)

Would definitely go for a brass : EDIT : bronze , but then I never used a composite one.

Regards

[erkan]

Yes Sailblue, I still need the dimensions pls...

[alex1949]

Erkan & Sailbleu

Please let us know the whole set of dimensions since I have to do same job this coming spring.

Vetus Holland got a wide range of those CB outside is bronze, their prices are usually good.

Thanks

[On y va]

Jan 1, 2016 18:58:41 GMT alex1949 said:

Hi,

 Not that simple, beside from the size of shaft (30mm) and length needed you should know the inner size of the CB housing. For the 35 mm shaft there are two different but close measurements you must measure it ,otherwise get the bigger one but than you'll have to machine it to size, length is no problem you just cut it yourself to meet the old one.

Huh? Machining? This is an off the shelve bog standard product.

The outer size of the CB tube is 44,5mm and the inner size of the bracket housing is virtually 45mm when clean. For 30mm shafts, there are no 2 sizes available as far as I know, but this may differ elsewhere in the world. Length of the CB is 120mm and this fits perfectly, without having to cut it.

Bronze has the advantage that it threads better than composite for the retaining screws. Compsite CB´s are easier to remove next time you need to replace. But in the end where functionality is concerned, there is no difference between bronze and composite CB´s.

[alex1949]

Hi On y va,

Vetus offer for a 30mm shaft Two sizes as I mentioned : 45mm outer diameter for a mm stern tube inside diameter and a second one with a 45.5 mm equal to 1.75'' used for mm shaft and inch stern tube size. BOTH SIZES ARE AVAILABLE AT VETUS.

I would assume European firm like Jeanneau uses both mm sizes (i.e. 30 mm\45 mm)  but I am not sure.

On my bottom last treatment two seasons ago I tried but wasn't able to release the cutlass bearing that was stuck inside the stern tube, this time I will have to pull out the shaft to allow cutting the old CB from inside.  WHAT I NEED TO KNOW IS WEATHER I CAN PULL OUT THE SHAFT WHILE THE RUDDER IS ON OR DO I HAVE TO TAKEOFF RUDDER TO ALLOW SHAFT PULLED OUT PLEASE LET ME HAVE AN EXPIRIANCED ANSWER FOR THAT !!.

On my previous boat Jeanneau Sun shine 38' shaft was a bit off-center  and by pressing a bit on the rudder board you could slide shaft out easily.

Any more advices will be appreciated.

Thanks

[On y va]

Jan 4, 2016 7:11:49 GMT alex1949 said:

Hi On y va,

Vetus offer for a 30mm shaft Two sizes as I mentioned : 45mm outer diameter for a mm stern tube inside diameter and a second one with a 45.5 mm equal to 1.75'' used for mm shaft and inch stern tube size. BOTH SIZES ARE AVAILABLE AT VETUS.

I would assume European firm like Jeanneau uses both mm sizes (i.e. 30 mm\45 mm)  but I am not sure.

On my bottom last treatment two seasons ago I tried but wasn't able to release the cutlass bearing that was stuck inside the stern tube, this time I will have to pull out the shaft to allow cutting the old CB from inside.  WHAT I NEED TO KNOW IS WEATHER I CAN PULL OUT THE SHAFT WHILE THE RUDDER IS ON OR DO I HAVE TO TAKEOFF RUDDER TO ALLOW SHAFT PULLED OUT PLEASE LET ME HAVE AN EXPIRIANCED ANSWER FOR THAT !!.

On my previous boat Jeanneau Sun shine 38' shaft was a bit off-center  and by pressing a bit on the rudder board you could slide shaft out easily.

Any more advices will be appreciated.

Thanks

I never buy at Vetus, there are plenty of other suppliers. I gave you the measurements in my previous post.

And yes, you can pull the shaft out without having to remove the rudder. You do need to turn the rudder somewhat though. And if you do that, do insert the red cap into the Volvo Seal, unless u are replacing the seal anyway.

[alex1949]

Thanks , If one need to take off rudder than placing on the hard should be higher than normal. No need for that makes live simpler.

Thanks again.

[sailbleu]

Erkan,

my apologies , forgot all about this topic.Festivities and family you know
Anyway , don't mind making the tool , but this link will give you an idea how to replace a cutlass without taking the rudder off.

www.jeanneau-owners.com/hintsandtips/Cutlessbearingtool.html

I promise , will post picture and sizes tomorrow morning

Regards

[sailbleu]

Good luck

[erkan]

Thanks for your inputs.

I will post the details here when/if I can change the bearing

And I read several times your link about the cb Sailblue, I am sure it will be very useful for me

By the way, I could not find brass bearing, so I should go for bronze in this case

[On y va]

Jan 5, 2016 9:26:39 GMT sailbleu said:

Good luck

Thanks for comfirming my measurements! 

[h4]

Jan 2, 2016 14:26:59 GMT sailbleu said:

Erkan ;


Would definitely go for a brass : EDIT : bronze , but then I never used a composite one.

Regards

There is some confusion when people discuss shaft bearings as there are also composite bearings, the ones mentioned here are rubber bearings housed in a composite or metal (bronze) carrier.

The latest generation of bearings are fully composite, these have lubricants within the structure that allow them to last longer than rubber. Being hard rather than an elastomer such as rubber the shaft is prevented from moving as much as is possible in rubber. They are also normally fitted as a clearance fit, this means they can be slid in by hand and are made slightly smaller than the bearing carrier tube. To hold them in place epoxy is used.

[sailbleu]

Very interesting info h4 , wasn't aware that kind of composites were on the market.
But are we talking about just a full composite bearing , no tracks inside ?
Or is it the same construction like a rubber bearing , without the explicit rubber that is ?

Regards


EDIT:
but if these bearings are epoxied in , you will have a hard time getting them out for replacement no ?
Or is that done by heating up the strut ?

[On y va]

H4 is referring to Maritex cutless bearings, which coincidentally are sold by a company called......tadaah....H4Marine.com!! 

Quote: Trials in small commercial vessels (2" shafts) have shown wear rates at 1/3 of that of nitrile rubber (Pilot boat that operates in deep as well as shallow silted estuary)

Maritex is a hard phenolic resin based composite, moulded not fibre wound, it hardens with heat rather than softening, it also has a surface chemistry that is designed to resist marine growth and has had succesful trials on some 50-60m high performance naval vessels. It's Lloyds approved and used by a number of high performance military gun boats in the 50 - 150' range.

It also has the benefit of being designed for a clearance fit, no press or squeeze or freeze fits which can help if you need to check bearing carrier alignment. You can do a dry run with shaft chocked sliding bearings into carriers as they should be free to rotate.

[sailbleu]

Jan 13, 2016 8:20:47 GMT On y va said:

H4 is referring to Maritex cutless bearings, which coincidentally are sold by a company called......tadaah....H4Marine.com!! 

Thanks for pointing this out onyva.
On boards that's always something to be careful about.
I'm sure Malcolm will remain vigilant.
But then again , there's no harm in letting the world know about new products.

Regards

[On y va]

My intention was not to grass on H4, but just to point it out. He makes no mention of his company as such.

I think it is very interesting in fact, as Maritex might be an excellent solution for long distance sailors. But there is not a lot known about this yet, expecially in the "small boat" market where we are plodding along.

[normane]

Jan 4, 2016 7:11:49 GMT alex1949 said:

Hi On y va,

Vetus offer for a 30mm shaft Two sizes as I mentioned : 45mm outer diameter for a mm stern tube inside diameter and a second one with a 45.5 mm equal to 1.75'' used for mm shaft and inch stern tube size. BOTH SIZES ARE AVAILABLE AT VETUS.

I would assume European firm like Jeanneau uses both mm sizes (i.e. 30 mm\45 mm)  but I am not sure.

On my bottom last treatment two seasons ago I tried but wasn't able to release the cutlass bearing that was stuck inside the stern tube, this time I will have to pull out the shaft to allow cutting the old CB from inside.  WHAT I NEED TO KNOW IS WEATHER I CAN PULL OUT THE SHAFT WHILE THE RUDDER IS ON OR DO I HAVE TO TAKEOFF RUDDER TO ALLOW SHAFT PULLED OUT PLEASE LET ME HAVE AN EXPIRIANCED ANSWER FOR THAT !!.

On my previous boat Jeanneau Sun shine 38' shaft was a bit off-center  and by pressing a bit on the rudder board you could slide shaft out easily.

Any more advices will be appreciated.

Thanks

On my 45.2 Jeanneau did not choose an all metric bearing.  I have a 30mm shaft but the outside diameter ia 1.75 inches!

[alex1949]

Hi Normande & others

For the odd sizes of the outer DIA of the CB tube I contacted a local experienced Jeanneau agent and he told me that Jeanneau used the two outer diameter sizes 1.75'' and 45mm . (different models and years) . Need to take good care and have it measured beforehand. You may suffer from either some loose CB due to undersize  or a stacked CB due to oversize.

[chuckr]

Erkan -- you asked about material - we got the boat new in 2003 and had a bronze on it. Had to replace in 2005 I think and went to plastic - than again had to have a survey and when we were out the surveyor suggested we replace the cutlass as it was a bit worn and had only limited life and I think that was 2007 just before we took off.  It was bronze as I remember. 

It is now 2016 and we still have the same one.  we will haul this spring and will pull the variable pitch prop for a bit of loving and rebuild and check the cutlass but seems right now to be ok.  If I change I will stay with bronze if I can get it here.

[erkan]

Thanks chuckr, Yesterday with a home made tool (similar to sailbleu's tool) I could took out the damaged bearing. It was plastic and badly damaged. I replaced it with a vetus bronze bearing. But it was not easy to fit it in place. I had to use the same tool to insert the new bearing. This is not a sign of an anomaly I hope...

[alex1949]

Feb 5, 2016 13:09:52 GMT erkan said:

Thanks chuckr, Yesterday with a home made tool (similar to sailbleu's tool) I could took out the damaged bearing. It was plastic and badly damaged. I replaced it with a vetus bronze bearing. But it was not easy to fit it in place. I had to use the same tool to insert the new bearing. This is not a sign of an anomaly I hope...

Erkan,

As I mention before : Vetus has both two out sizes for it, 45 mm and 1.75'' (.5 mm difference between them). If it was that hard to pull back in it was probably the bigger size 45 mm pulled into a 1.75'' (44.5 mm) arm.

Need to check the arm itself beforehand. No harm done but very hard job to pull out again. May need to pull out shaft and cut cutlass bearing from inside and than pull. Did it once.