SO 42DS - Renewal Of Sea-cocks

[Camira]

I need to change the sea-cocks on my 2007 SO 42DS I was thinking of using the Forespar Marlon plastic seacocks. Has anyone done this on the SO 42DS? Do they fit in the restricted toilet area for instance of the forward heads?
Phil James

[Trevor]

Hello spellbound,

I am keen to know why you must change the seacocks? Are they sticking, corroded or do you think they are ready to fail? I like the Marelon seacocks and when the time comes for mine to be replaced I think they are the ones I will use. I am keen to hear any responses as well.

Regards,

Trevor

[sleighride]

I replaced my two head discharge sea coves this spring when boat was hauled because they were pitted on the outside of the balls and starting to leak. I have two heads for our DS 43. I replaced sea cocky with bronze. They were 13 years old. 

[hoppy]

Nov 30, 2015 11:36:39 GMT Trevor said:

Hello spellbound,

I am keen to know why you must change the seacocks? Are they sticking, corroded or do you think they are ready to fail? I like the Marelon seacocks and when the time comes for mine to be replaced I think they are the ones I will use. I am keen to hear any responses as well.

Regards,

Trevor

If you want to get paranoid about your seacocks and bring forward your upgrade plans, check out this thread. Look at the links in the 2nd post. I upgraded mine with Trudesign.

jeanneau.proboards.com/thread/2722/seacocks-concern-cost

[Tafika II]

We've replaced all the factory thru-hulls with Graco bronze. Most of the Jeanneaus from this era us a very cheap poor grade of thru-hull with many snapping off or freezing shut or open, so replace any factory units ASAP. I choose bronze, but many friends use the Forspar Marlon with great success....good luck!

[MalcolmP]

Nov 29, 2015 21:40:03 GMT Camira said:

I need to change the sea-cocks on my 2007 SO 42DS I was thinking of using the Forespar Marlon plastic seacocks. Has anyone done this on the SO 42DS? Do they fit in the restricted toilet area for instance of the forward heads?
Phil James

Hi we changed all our seacocks last year. For the large holding tank / WC outlet in our heads we used the NZ Tru design www.trudesignplastics.com/marine/products/8-manual-ball-valve which has been fantastic, easy to use and the design allowed us to replace the OEM right angle join the factory had made after the thru-hull and before the original sea-cock, which can't be good practice. We use a 120 degree tail www.trudesignplastics.com/marine/products/40-aquavalve-120-tails so the new seacock bolts directly to the hull as it should and the waste pipe then onto the tail. getting the right sized pipe was an issue in the UK - apparently France use an unusual ID and the yard eventually used exhaust hose - which so far at least has not created a smell nuisance. best to really research hose diameters and tail fittings etc
For the rest of the boat we used proper bronze, the only problem we found with the OEM was not though the through hulls it was the tails - several of which had advanced dezincification

[rxc]

Malcolm,

Do you (or anyone else who might read this) have any idea what kind of threads are used on the thru-hull fittings and valves? BST or some US standard or some French standard? I am thinking about doing this myself, with the boat on the hard, but I need to know what the threads are before I can buy the valves. I am even unsure about whether Jeanneau uses US standard fittings for boats they sell in the US, and other standards for boats sold elsewhere. The AC electrical systems and the propane systems are country-specific, so why not the thru-hulls?

I had one valve replaced in France, and it has ' 2"' on it, but I am not sure whether it is US or Brit threads.

Ralph

[MalcolmP]

Hi Ralph

The yard - Richardson's on the Isle of Wight ordered all the parts in our case - so regret I don't know if they were BSP or NPS. Of course if you are replacing the whole lot: thru-hull, valve plus tail then only the ID of the pipe is an issue. On our 39i the problem was mainly the size of the holding tank outlet spigot which would not match standard pipes. I would guess that they use all the same spec fittings for the French yards, but for the models produced in Marion then they may well use US sourced fittings with US specs. Hopefully a more informed expert from Jeanneau or one of the enlightened dealers could advise?

[Camira]

Hi All
Thanks for all the responses over the last 24 hours, some very useful information.
Trevor the reason for changing the sea-CCDs after eight years is merely that I feel I should from a safety situation, I have had no problems with them playing up in any way to date.
Regards
Phil

[sailbleu]

Guys ,

what life span are we talking about , the boats I mean ?
I'm supprized that in the TS's case his 8 year old boat needs a complete overhaul , seacock-wise that is .
Is there a patern of no wintering on the hard ?
I'm just curious because my boat is in the water the whole year for the second year now . Always had winter haul outs.
If that would be the cause of seacocks disintegrating , I will have to remain vigilant.

Regards


EDIT:

Spellbound ,

You change your sea-cocks as a precaution ??
Have you had a price in yet ?
Please keep us up to date will you ?

[sleighride]

I have owned my DS 43 for over 13 years now stored year-round in the water with no problems with any of the sea-cocks until the yard noticed pitting this last spring in the two head discharge valves which I had replaced. I have the boat hauled, inspected and bottom painted every two years and the other through-hulls are in excellent condition. Of course, even with the pitting to the sea-cock valves, any leakage would enter back into the discharge hose up to the holding tanks, and that would not have effected the inside of the boat in any way. The through-hull fittings themselves maintained their integrity.

[toniocask]

this were my factory seacocks after 4 years..
the boat, a 42i of 2008 bought new. This picture is 2012
I change all the seacocks into Randex brand, composite polipropilene and gpr. Very nice and corrosion free.
I reccomend to change asap all the original valves and seacocks, very poor and dangerous items..

[Trevor]

Dec 1, 2015 0:24:28 GMT Camira said:

Hi All
Thanks for all the responses over the last 24 hours, some very useful information.
Trevor the reason for changing the sea-CCDs after eight years is merely that I feel I should from a safety situation, I have had no problems with them playing up in any way to date.
Regards
Phil

Thanks spellbound and Hoppy....my boat is 2008 vintage so I guess i might look at this issue with a little more concern and determination.

Regards,

[so36idavid]

Nov 30, 2015 23:36:14 GMT MalcolmP said:

Hi Ralph

 On our 39i the problem was mainly the size of the holding tank outlet spigot which would not match standard pipes. I would guess that they use all the same spec fittings for the French yards, but for the models produced in Marion then they may well use US sourced fittings with US specs. Hopefully a more informed expert from Jeanneau or one of the enlightened dealers could advise?

I'm pretty sure you have the same thing as I do on my 36i of similar vintage. It's 2" ID marine sanitation hose. I got "Headhunter Great White Super Premium" hose from Downwind Marine in San Diego. $17/foot, luckily I only needed 3'. FYI I changed all hoses in my sanitation system last year, including the vent hose, replacing it all with either the Headhunter or Shields premium sanitation hoses. I have zero smell from the holding tank or head.

Jeanneau OEM through hulls are a disgrace. I had to replace the raw water intake through-hull as it was pink and weeping. The previous owner of my boat replaced a couple of others, but the rest of them seem to be doing ok. 

David

[Xantia]

Our 42DS is now four years old and we have replaced the forward head sea cocks and through-hulls twice already. The original stainless sea cock was hard to operate from new and became jammed solid after a few weeks. It was then replaced under warranty. The replacement stainless one was marginally better but also became so hard to operate we used the forward head as a shower only for the first year and a half. The aft sea cock has always been fine but it is a Marelon 1 and 1/2 inch one while the forward one is 2 inch. We then replaced the forward one with Marelon and mostly it has been fine. It's a bit hard to operate because of the shape of the access hatch but at least it works. The process is so awkward that I have cracked the seal between the elbow and the sea cock. They were sealed with epoxy, which doesn't stick well to Marelon plastic. Being sick of the whole deal, I just covered the whole lot with Sikaflex and it's been watertight ever since.
Now to threads. Marelon valves use US NPS (straight) threads but try to find a matching male threaded fitting outside the US. Westmarine have a few. The elbow has a BSP thread which is very close to US NPT (tapered), so no wonder it cracked the epoxy under the torque needed to operate the valve. If I replace the system I'll either find a matching thread fitting or chuck the whole lot out and start again, again. Every time we change it, the through-hull dies in the process, not that it is otherwise faulty.
I am thinking of getting the hole in the hull reduced to 1 and 1/2 inch just to smallerise the whole system and get away from high operating torques. But Xantia won't be out of the water for nearly another year so I have plenty of thinking time. (We do most of our sailing in winter, when the winds are consistent and the tourists are gone, so it's hard to find time to slip the boat.)
Cheers
Ian

[Mistroma]

I also changed the forward head valve on my 2009 42DS as it was very stiff. A friend with a 2008 42DS changed his around the same time and for the same reason and I've heard of several other cases. It is very odd that it is only the forward head. I examined the original ball valve and the only problem I found was some damage to the chrome on the ball. The replacement DZR valve is also quite stiff and difficult to open when fully closed. However, it closes easily and I suspect would be fine if the handle was 2-3" longer. The awkward position, limited access and size of the valve probably contribute much to the problem.

I examine the skin-fittings and elbows once each year and haven't found signs of de-zincification, though it is only possible to take some areas back to clean metal. I've also removed a few of the ball valves and tails (one per year) and not seen any significant signs of de-zincification).

I only spend a 2-3 months afloat on shore power and also have a galvanic isolator (GI). That shouldn't have much impact as the skin-fittings aren't wired to earth. Anode life certainly improved after fitting the GI.

However, I do expect to change the aft-head fittings at some point as it would cause lots of grief if it ever failed. The yard at Almerimar had already changed ones on a 42DS and were able to dump all the required parts on the counter. In fact, they corrected an error I'd made with the sizes and prices were reasonable, so I bought a set to hold as spares.

I was told that Tru Design parts would fit the aft-head but the outlet valve was a very tight fit. The secret is to dry fit everything and mark the position of elbow and valve. I think that I may also need to trim a little bit from the skin-fitting to get the valve to fit under the cover. Not too much though as it is very close to the hull.

The tail, valve and elbow can then be assembled and bonded together in the correct position to allow the valve to operate. Final assembly involves someone outside turning the skin-fitting until it is tight on the elbow (which has been smeared with bonding material). The surfaces between hull, skin-fitting and retaining nut are also smeared with sealant at this stage so that everything can be tightened properly. I can't remember the sealant/bonding material that they used as I left a note with the parts. It sounds fiddly but a dry-fit test run with bonded elbow, valve and tail piece should make certain it all fits.

As far as I remember, all the skin-fittings and elbows I've removed had BSP threads, not taper.

[yachtingtypes]

I know this is an ongoing topic but I am replacing the seacocks on my 2003 43DS with Groco bronze. Most of them look OK apart from the holding tank discharges that show signs of seepage down the inside of the hull. The Groco alternatives are the FBV and BV series with the difference being chrome plated vs stainless ball valves. Clearly the price is different as well. Does anyone have views or practical experience on the two series to help me in this decision.

[Tafika II]

We installed the SS ball version on recommendation from the yard doing the refit. They felt the chrome were just as good but may have a tendency to corrode faster. This was their opinion only, but we went with it. Again the plastic composite valves on my friend's boat seems to be in just as good order, so it's a personal choice.

[MalcolmP]

As I mentioned above we used the tru design plastic for the head - really pleased with it, fits much better than the OEM too