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Post by Torsten on Nov 14, 2015 11:09:56 GMT
In order to get enough energy for the fridge (and ice for Coke'n'rum in the evenings) I installed a hydro generator on my SO30i :-) Due to the needed contruction for a wind generator, it's noise and the low perfromance I decided not to go that way. I have a photovoltaics (solar) panel which is fine to get charged batteries while not being onboard. The product I installed is called "SailingGen". I found a comparison of hydro generators on www.mergerandfriends.de/technik/strom-an-bord/strom-erzeugen/31-schleppgeneratorenIt can easily be removed and put into the locker:            I can confirm the given numbers of above weblink. In my configuration it works well until 20° declination. At 30° declination the charge current strongly degrades due to the fact that the prop isn't deep enough in the water anymore. My SailingGen has a lenght of 70cm between the two pivotal points (standard is ~60cm). Going with 5kn speed through water will still charge my battery and supply all electric consumers including the fridge. |
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Post by hoppy on Nov 14, 2015 13:47:11 GMT
Cool.....
I've been tossing up between supplementing my solar with wind or water power and getting either a Superwind or a Watt&Sea. I've been inclined to want to go the water route but the price of the watt&sea has been a killer.
SailingGen looks very very interesting.
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Post by Trevor on Nov 14, 2015 14:33:40 GMT
Hansi,
Great job and thanks for sharing that. That is a really neat installation for that device.
Regards,
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Post by sailbleu on Nov 14, 2015 15:50:57 GMT
Hansi ,
well done , but would it not have better to put it a bit more to the port side to keep the platform clear.
Obviously with a possibility to create an angle so the propeller will stay submerged.
Or is the shaft a bit short for that ?
Nice addition though , unfortunately for a not so nice price . +/- 1600 Euro ?!
Ouch !
Regards
EDIT:
Oeps , just read the shaft is only 70cm.
I ask myself , when seriously sailing there's always an inclination , and if that inclination results in loss of supply of the SailGen , maybe it could be a good idea to have two supports so you can switch the gen to the side that has the highest yield. No ?
Not sure if the company sells that separately .
The short shaft seems like a major handicap.
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Post by Torsten on Nov 14, 2015 16:34:06 GMT
In fact the shaft lenght as well as the aft hull shape is limiting the performance. As said until 20° there seems to be no degradation in performance in my configuration. The original proposed mounting can be seen following the weblink in the first post. The mounting shown there is much lower. I've made my own mounting as stated in the pictures due to fact that I do not want to have holes nearby the waterline. Therefore I asked the manufacturer for a longer shaft. Also it's worth mentioning that according to the prop shape the SailinGen want to turn to the port side. That's why there is a supporting line to the starboard side. With this line you can control the position and you can get it out of the water in case your batteries are fully charged. Maybe the fully charged battery is more an issue than the degraded charge current in high declinations ;-) EDIT: I added the picture below to show the support line and SailingGen turned out of the water Also asking myself now how much will be the degration on a wind turbine when being let's say 30° off vertical...  |
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Post by hoppy on Nov 14, 2015 16:49:57 GMT
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Post by hoppy on Nov 14, 2015 16:56:36 GMT
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Post by Torsten on Nov 14, 2015 18:31:12 GMT
In fact €1600 is quite a lot of money.
But what will a wind generator including all mechanics cost ?
And which system will provide more charge current in average use ?
Here's a small video I made (unfortunately my comments are in german):
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Post by vasko on Nov 14, 2015 18:54:11 GMT
The important part is to be happy with your setup  for me 1600 EUR is a a lot for a generator - I spent 300EUR on 240W solars and about 450EUR on WindTurbine - analog of WindBreeze 400W and got a carbonfibre pole for the windgen - the solar setup is doing about 7-12Amps and the windgen 5-10amps. I'm still little bit short of power when running my desalinator for 8-10h a day and TV, laptops, tablets, cameras etc. my personal experience ( in the med) is that solar panel are best source of power , but I'm struggling to find space for more panels at the moment I would love to have another 240W... |
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Post by sailbleu on Nov 15, 2015 6:57:40 GMT
The important part is to be happy with your setup for me 1600 EUR is a a lot for a generator - I spent 300EUR on 240W solars and about 450EUR on WindTurbine - analog of WindBreeze 400W and got a carbonfibre pole for the windgen - the solar setup is doing about 7-12Amps and the windgen 5-10amps. I'm still little bit short of power when running my desalinator for 8-10h a day and TV, laptops, tablets, cameras etc. my personal experience ( in the med) is that solar panel are best source of power , but I'm struggling to find space for more panels at the moment I would love to have another 240W... I couldn't agree with you more Vasko. But have a look at this , I'm sure you all heard/read about it www.electronicsonboard.co.uk/duogen-3-extra-long-tower-185mtr-67-c.aspLooking at the price and what you get for it and compairing it with that of the SailingGen , there's a slight offset imo. Regards |
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Post by vasko on Nov 15, 2015 7:12:28 GMT
yep, once I was considering one of this - I remember it was on clearance sale for about £500 I guess was a old model but still was looking interesting... |
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Post by hoppy on Nov 15, 2015 9:15:13 GMT
Too me it seems cheap after considering the watt&sea for the past year or two I have to say I am a bit "concerned" about how the SailingGen is designed to be mounted. I could imagine that at a bit of speed, if the prop is fouled by rope, weed or even worse a plastic bag, then the drag could cause quite a strain on the mounting bracket and if it is undetected, perhaps it could break away. I think that the way the W&S is mounted would probably make it much stronger to resist the leverage forces. I can't see why the SailingGen couldn't be adapted to be mounted this why by any SS workshop or sailbleu in his shed. The OP's mount does look more sturdy than most on the SailingGen site |
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Post by vasko on Nov 15, 2015 12:35:02 GMT
honestly the only viable solution is a lot of solars ( at least 500 to 1200W ) and LiFePo4 batteries..
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Post by hoppy on Nov 15, 2015 13:04:17 GMT
honestly the only viable solution is a lot of solars ( at least 500 to 1200W ) and LiFePo4 batteries.. I don't see how that is viable unless you switch to a cat  |
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Post by vasko on Nov 15, 2015 13:19:49 GMT
unfortunately.. you are generally correct I manage to find space only for 240W so far.. I'm thinking of adding a thin solar film on the UV stripe on the genoa and all of the sprayhood and optionally add step-on semi flex panel under the boom but in two sets with two MPP controlers to tackle the issue with the shade from the main... in brief still having fun on the drawing board and working in the mean time on improving the software of the outboard electric engine |
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Post by sailbleu on Nov 15, 2015 13:29:12 GMT
honestly the only viable solution is a lot of solars ( at least 500 to 1200W ) and LiFePo4 batteries.. I don't see how that is viable unless you switch to a cat Not really , if you think three-dimensionally on the davits alot is possible. And then there's the bimini , sprayhood and the cockpit railing. Think for a minute , on anchor you do (can) not use the watergen. Using the watergen you need some speed, that usually means you have enough wind. If you have enough wind you can run the windgen Oh , did I mention you can also use the windgen whilst on anchor ?! Dont get me wrong , I like a watergen , but just not at a start-price of 1600 Eur and more. Regards |
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Post by hoppy on Nov 15, 2015 15:02:24 GMT
Water or wind depends on how your using your boat. If you are day tripping in the med and anchoring at night, the wind is best. If you are trade winds sailing, then water is better. In other sailing conditions it could be a tossup as to what is better.
I've found that my power shortfall happens when I'm sailing overnight, so more solar is no help. Admittedly on each occasion there was so little wind that neither wind or water would have helped that much.
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Post by vasko on Nov 15, 2015 15:52:47 GMT
although I have a windgen and I like it - it has two things that need to be taken in account - some small noise which make you think that the wind speed is lot more then it is actually and that it really get useful over 12kts e.g. still think that best from performance point fo view is a lot of solars + good 400a LiFePo4 bank which will be well enough for 2-3 nights in worst case and is able to recharge from engine if needed in 3-4 hours from fully discharged to fully charged assuming you have 100A alternator.. regarding the wind/water gen combo I think the basic idea is if there is not enough wind but you are still doing 4-5kts you can use the watergen if winds is strong enough or at anchor you can use it as windgen |
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Post by Torsten on Sept 29, 2016 19:57:37 GMT
Hey guys, last weekend I made a current measurement with the SailingGen. Having 6.4kn speed through water I got 12.8A charging current into my 12V battery. On parallel there was a discharge of approx. 1.6A so total current by sailing gen was approx. 14.4A. The wind was approx. 13 knots. Does a windgenerator at the same conditions can provide that much? Hansi    |
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Post by vasko on Sept 29, 2016 20:06:02 GMT
that's VERY good ! - windgen is starting to get some juice really in the battery after about 15kts wind and a lot better in about 25kts - the upside of the windgen is that it works also when you are on anchor... I generally think that the solar is the best option but will recommend minimum 500W better 600W for wind gens you can take a look here : mantis.b2net.net/dw/wind_generators_comparison.pdfand my exact windgen is this one : mantis.b2net.net/dw/Air_Manual_4-2013.pdf |
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Post by vasko on Sept 29, 2016 20:10:25 GMT
I would compare in reality in Med cruising environment a wingen is generating a energy like a 150W solar if you average let say 30 days... but in teh same time because of the noise it makes the things on the boat to feel a lot more scary that they are e.g. if 15kts the feeling is like 30kts as the wingen noise is the same that the wind makes when it passes over the boat e.g. it adds about 15kts to the actual wind speed in noise that you hear and it takes sometime to get used this strange feeling |
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Post by vasko on Sept 29, 2016 20:15:42 GMT
btw : this is my setup : ( I managed to get my windgen for little less then 400EUR directly from the factory ) and happy with the price perf , but no way to pay the original crazy asking price... also teh solar setup is 240W with MPPT - bosh panels total < 300 EUR , only the carbon fibre pipe for the windget was little bit expensive about 60EUR  |
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Post by Torsten on Oct 3, 2016 14:49:33 GMT
Vasko, thanks for sharing your setup and the links. I need to think about additional wind energy during the winter time while the boat is on the hard. Probably the easiest and best for me would be adding another 100W solar panel On a close reach at 25kn of wind I am already getting uneasy, so the wind gen noise would probaly scare me too much ;-) |
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Post by vasko on Oct 3, 2016 21:25:34 GMT
solar is best - but I will suggest as much as possible .... I would love to have 600W , but still to discover where to place them... thinking about the thin film 330v version to sew to the bimini or to the sun protector part of the genoa
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