New electronis - must haves / good times

[georgecasa]

Hello all,

I am the proud new owner of a 1989 Jeanneau 12.5.  I just closed the deal today and I can not wait to get to work.  I feel like the best part about having a boat is making it your own and sailing away from it all knowing You can travel far an little to no dependence on the grid.

first step Electronic!! 

The previous owners haven't changed there electronics since they day she was built.  So ill have to get all new.


Here is where all of your knowledge and expertise come into play.

I will be coastal coursing / living aboard  Americas North east coast line, visiting places like Block Island, Newport Road Island and Atlantic city.


If this was your boat what electronics do you absolutely need to have and which ones are just a good time.



Thanks in advance ,

[ForGrinsToo]

Hello George,

Congratulations on the new boat, and welcome to Jeanneau Owners where you will find a lot of useful information.

IMHO, probably the first thing would be to upgrade the VHF to a system which incorporates an AIS receiver and GPS like the Standard Horizon Matrix 2200. If you add a RAM 3 mic in the cockpit, you get the AIS display there as well. There are several WiFi multiplexers that can forward the AIS and GPS data to a tablet PC (I use an iPad) with chartplotter software. If you don't have radar, AIS is the next best thing to letting you know where are the big guys around you and what are they doing, which will be important in your East Coast travels. A tablet with a cellular connection will get you weather radar and graphical forecasts; it'll also have a built-in GPS for redundancy.

Beyond that, it'd be helpful to know what you already have.

Geoff

[Don Reaves]

I second the suggestion of a new VHS and AIS. However, I would opt for a dedicated MFD (multi-function display) like the Raymarine e7. I added one to my steering station a couple if years ago and really love it. It can display the location of other ships from the AIS and VHS (yes, you can get locations of your friends from a DSC enabled VHS).

Do you have wind instruments? Having them integrated with your knot meter and MFD puts everything you need right in front of you.

Good luck with your new boat, and don't forget to enjoy the sailing!

Don

[abgreenbank]

If you go down the ais route spend a little more on an ais transponder, then the big boys will see you too.
the ray marine  new a series mfd are nice and dsc vhf cheap as chips.
if you are sailing short handed a good autopilot is essential
and don't forget a nice large led tv!



regards

ab 

[sleighride]

I agree with all the suggestions above except for the TV. If I had to choose between radar and the AIS however, I would choose the AIS, especially if you navigate in waters with freighters, tugs, and much commercial traffic at night or in fog. I would also insist on a VHF with remote in the cockpit where you can hear calls and respond in limited visibility. (I cannot believe experienced skippers I know who only have the VHF below decks where it is pretty much useless if the boat is under power and someone tries to call you.)

[chuckr]

First welcome to the Jeanneau Family and the forum.


Second I would agree with the multi display like a Raymarine but would probably not opt for the AIS as it appears you are a day sailor and I kinda know the area you are sailing in.  But I would definitely go for radar not just to see what is out there but I really used it up there for weather and watching the storms blow in and trying to figure how much time I had to get in and hide when a thunderstorm came rolling through.  Of course landfalls to especially if you get caught out at night. 

Third I would also agree on the need for a ram mic at the helm. 

We do have AIS by the way and love it but we cross a lot of shipping channels and we use to do a bit of long sailing in the Carib before coming over to the Med and it proved valuable but at night we also run radar as a lot of boats do not have AIS and radar can generally pick them up sooner or later. 

By the way our last overnight sail we were running both radar and AIS from Lamadusa to Tunisia and had to watch for migrants and fishing boats.  The AIS saw one sailboat ahead of us but nothing else but the radar picked up a few fishing boats and a constant thunderstorm that moved across in front of us and we watched and prepared for but never got. 

Just something to think about. 

[hoppy]

I think it would be good to know your electronic budget and the timeframe for spending it. Maybe your budget requires upgrading in several phases over a couple of years?...

Also, what wind/log/depth instruments do you have on the boat. Maybe they need to be upgraded or maybe they are ok and will work with your future toys. Maybe the instruments are not capable of outputting NMEA data which you will ideally want for a Autopilot.

If it was me buying that boat I would install immediately

DSC capable VHF perhaps with RAM mike at the helm (or a handheld for the helm when coming to harbour)
A MFD at the helm (I tried and don't like the IPAD because it's so hard to see) linked to the VHF to supply the position
Autopilot
New wind/log/depth instruments especially if they don't output NMEA
Epirb (with GPS)

Lower priority

AIS transponder, it's invaluable to see the ships, their course and speed when you play near them. Sure you can use a compass and screw around whilst worrying about them, but having the AIS takes the stress out of meeting them. As for the transponder side of AIS, it's nice to know that there is more chance that the ships have noticed you, so if you are going to spend money on AIS, just spend the extra to get the transponder upfront.

[krawall]

A 26 year old boat probably needs a new masthead wind speed indicator and cockpit wind instruments / displays.

Autopilot?

I do find the Raymarine packages not bad - I have recently fitted a c95 and that can display everything, including AIS (which you should really get as it's rather inexpensive and good insurance). I fitted active AIS on my previous boat now 6 years ago, I thought it would be standard to have an AIS transceiver by now. Especially on a 40 footer. We always turn ours on as it draws only little battery, the folks I've asked who have radar, say they're not using it a lot. I think radar is overkill unless you want to navigate your way close to shore in bad weather (but also then the chart plotter helps) and you can't run it continuously other then when motoring.

I have not had good experience with iPad chart plotters, I much prefer a fixed installation of one near the helm (if you have space). The iPad is either out of battery, or not in a case and it rains, etc. It's also easy to sit on it, or drop it over the side. I see many have recommended the use of an iPad and it may work for them but it won't work for me. I use one though sometimes but only downstairs.

I gave up on the cockpit extension VHF speaker/mike as I had two sockets failing on me (just rotted away, even though i kept them dry and WD40 them) and nowadays we have two rechargeable VHF at the charitable, which I always charge one and use the other - is also handy if some crew goes somewhere on the dink - ability to keep contact. Yes, the masthead antenna will give you a greater range (if you have one and you should) but for me keeping the sockets dry and from rotting was impossible on two boats.I have a fixed installed VHF at the chart table and use this if I can't get through with the hand-held.

Speaking of electronics, you might want to upgrade to LED lighting - I have done so and many others have with tremendous increase to battery life - after all, if you add all those electronics, they need to be powered somehow ;-)

Careful, we replaced our anchor light and interior with LED, no way to replace the tricolour unless you get a brand new complete housing with bulb, as there are no certified replacement LED for most tricolour mast head lights.

I've put two of those light weight solar panels on the bimini - the give around 250 - 300 watts total and I'd even be able to fit another one. They weight around 2.5kg each...

Just get out your chequebook, will ya.

[georgecasa]

Thank you all this is great help.

To answer some of your questions, the boat has no electronics at all and my budget for this year is $5000.

I like the raymarine e7 and the standard horizon gx2200 with a 2nd station at the wheel. I feel like these two electronics will be very helpfull in my travels.

I also need a depthsounder. I can not figure out if the raymarine e7 comes with a through hull transducer....

Mot important to me would be an auto pilot but they are all so expensive. What would you all recomend?

[Xlnt]

opt for something larger than the e7. I had the C80 and went for E120W, the bigger the merrier :-)

-XLNT

[hoppy]

There are 2 types of e7, the standard and the e7D which has an input for a sonar. You don't need the e7D unless you are fishing or perhaps looking for wrecks to dive on. So the standard e7 is what you want. You will need to buy a depth sounder transducer for it. In the "old days" when they still sold the ST60 units, you would get the speed and depth transducer with the ST60 tridata. Not sure how they do it with the i50/i60/i70 instruments, but I suspect that the transducers are separate.

Personally, I think you should stick to one brand where possible. It makes integration much easier between the instruments, MFD, autopilot, AIS, VHF etc... If you go all Raymarine then there is in messing with NMEA. I pretty much have all RM except my VHF. If I had a RM VHF then I could call AIS targets using DSC quite easily via the e7 (not that I have ever called a target)

From my e7 I can control my RM AP.

BTW I would not recommend the RM 'a' series or and tough only unit at the helm. When it's wet the touch does not work so well, so sometimes I disable it and use the controller. The new eS series looks good but I guess much more expensive than the e7

[chuckr]

Oct 21, 2015 11:29:58 GMT georgecasa said:

Thank you all this is great help.

To answer some of your questions, the boat has no electronics at all and my budget for this year is $5000.

I like the raymarine e7 and the standard horizon gx2200 with a 2nd station at the wheel. I feel like these two electronics will be very helpfull in my travels.

I also need a depthsounder. I can not figure out if the raymarine e7 comes with a through hull transducer....

Mot important to me would be an auto pilot but they are all so expensive. What would you all recomend?

We have become so use to using OTTO Pelo that we forgot all about it.  Yea issue one is autopilot.  I can not help on the autopilot side except to say we have a raymarine 6000 and it works and has worked well for 12 years.  Otto brought us through the Caribbean and across the Atlantic and now across the Med.  It makes moving around so much easier. 
SO yea autopilot 1st and maybe some here has a similar boat and can advise. 
As for cost - yea expensive but well worth every penny.  The other stuff can wait.

[georgecasa]

Has anyone here tried out the CPT auto pilot system. It is relatively inexpensive and easy to install. See link www.cptautopilot.com/

[so36idavid]

I'll take a different tack. In the first year I would recommend spending almost nothing on electronics. You're going to have a bunch of bills that you don't expect, probably well over $5000 worth, for things that aren't sexy or shiny. Get some charts and a handheld GPS (some of those have charts) and go sailing. After a year you'll have a much better idea of what makes sense for you. 

I would be a bit concerned about sailing in places like the Chesapeake Bay without a depth sounder. Are you sure that there isn't one installed? Or at least a transducer?

David

[hoppy]

Oct 21, 2015 18:57:17 GMT georgecasa said:

Has anyone here tried out the CPT auto pilot system. It is relatively inexpensive and easy to install. See link www.cptautopilot.com/

Looks like a pretty ugly unit. I'd rather a hydraulic drive unit hidden away below deck.

Looking at the photos, the drive unit looks quite big and bulky to the point where it looks like it will not fit between a pedestal and the wheel so easy.

I use the "wind vane" mode on my RM AP and would never want an AP that can't do that (perhaps unless I had an actual windvane)

[MartyB]

"IF" you have no electronics that work at all. I would do something first with a depth, speed and wind. I believe Raymarine still sells a combo pack for a bit less than all three separate. I've finally gotten a GPS unit, ie an a97 recently, not need to install.
As for an AP, got one of those too after 8 yrs of owning the boat. Should have gotten one of them way sooner!
I would start with what ever brand you think will give you the best bang for buck in how you want to sail. If I were to start from scratch, I have to admit today, I would go with B&G. As that GPS Chart plotter setup has a better how to figure out lay lines etc when sailing trying to get from point A to B. Including the ability to tell how bad or good the currents are, along with leeway being made etc. Multitudes better than Raymarine and Garmin.

I replaced all the original Base electronics with an ST60+ as I mentioned get first awhile ago. So I stuck with an auto and gps/chart plotter from Raymarine. A bit easier to hook up older with newer etc.

I can get anywhere I want with a chart, compass and me eyes. That is my preferred method. Learned that back when GPS was for the most part, non existant for use regular folks. Some of the Armed forces may have had GPS back in the early 70's. but I did not have access to it as a teenager learning to plot boats, going across the local mtns on foot backpacking etc.

Marty

[rene460]

If you really have no working electronics, then definitely start with depth, speed and wind, in that order, though preferably a single system so that speed and wind combine to give you true wind relative to the boat.  If you like Raymarine, then definitely i70 with vane type wind transducer, not rotorvector, and speed and depth transducers, either separate units or a combined unit, it is way in front of the previous ST 60 tri data system.  And of course you should have a modern VHF radio.  I would also consider going to B&G or Furano for higher quality, but they will cost more.

If you really have no instruments your big challenges will be the through hull for the depth and speed transducers, and the mast wiring, otherwise, if the wiring and through hulls exist, there will be some incentive to stay with the same brand, depending on their condition.

The chart plotter is not essential on day one except for one small point, but will be very high on the list as soon as you start venturing further from home.  Go for the biggest that can be installed at your helm station, they all display so much data that screen space is an issue if you go smaller than you need to.  And carry paper charts as well, and study them in every spare moment.

Similarly, the auto pilot is not essential unless you plan often sailing alone, and as you have missed the opportunity for the initial OEM installation, it can wait.  As others have said, there will be more pressing demands on your budget.  Get to know your boat first so you get to know your real needs rather than follow the preferences of others.

Just an additional opinion, based on my experience,

Rene460

[georgecasa]

I brought may sail to doyle sail makers today hoping it could be repaired. Unfortunately it doesn't pay to fix it... I'll have to take the money out of my electronics budget unfortunaly. Looks like I will not be enjoying an auto pilot this year, but hey what the heck I'm alright with that.

This year I'm only investing in a dual station radio and a depthsounder.

Next year I'll get the OTTO and gps.

Cheers,

[MartyB]

Do you have a water speed or wind speed unit? if not, I would do those before a gps. Again, look for all in one kits with wind, depth and speed, these can be 25-30% less than all of the separate!

Also, look at Ullmans Tri axis laminate sail. About 10-20% more than a dacron, but the additional speed gain over dacron is 50-60% of going to a string sail, ala 3dl/fiberpath/tape drive type sails.

marty

[ianpowolny]

George,

I assume you've checked out what you have for a house battery set. If you're adding electronics to a boat is there enough capacity to run all the electronic equipment that you want? We find that the MFD and autopilot use quite a lot of power but with 440Ah we have plenty of capacity for the sailing we do.

Will you go for an integrated system so all the instruments tie in to the MFD (multi function display) with additional instruments for say speed, depth and autopilot? Will you go new or secondhand; analog or digital?

Our system is 2008 vintage Raymarine, is integrated, analog and was purchased new when the boat was commissioned and works well. Changing to digital and wireless would be very expensive for us.

Do you have a VHF radio? If not how about the Icom M91D DSC with GPS.

There seem to be some very good deals on secondhand marine electronic equipment. If you can get it form a reliable supplier it may save you a sugnificant sum of money.

So my list which includes my wifes input are:

Depth
Wind
Handheld VHF with DSC/GPS and paper charts
iPad with Navionics Charts
iPad 12v charger
Fixed VHF with external speaker in cockpit. We have a four way switch that uses the hifi speakers.
Multi function display - integrated or standalone
Autopilot

Hope this helps and enjoy the sailing, Ian

[MartyB]

No boat speed Ian? or do you just use gps overground speed? both are good to have.

[vasko]

following is the list what I currently have on my 1990 34 feet boat...

I definitely prefer Garmin then Raymarine - maps a lot better + easy to source...

I love the Garmin GDL 30  etc. weather layer - unfortunately available only for US  ( north America) - in Europe using mobilke internet but discontinued

if you thinking about AIS go directly for AIS B transponder no point doing like me - VHF + AIS, Transponder  and later connect to chartplotter...

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Generic:Add-ins



- Fully batten Tri-Radial carbon/kevlar reinforced sails

- Spinnaker & Spinnaker/Whisker pole and all rigging

- Rock-solid horizontal windlass, Kobra 2 - 14kg anchor with 60m chain and 40m wrap ( 2015), remote in the cockpit + markers every 10
meters

- Second (kedge) danforth anchor 7kg and 60m wraps ( 2014 )

- Bow thruster MaxPower ( 2014 )

- Bedding/Sheets etc. special to fit exactly ( 2015 )

- Folding propeller - 17x13 - great while sailing(no resistance) and doing near 8kt on engine ( 2015 )

- Second reserved folding propeller 15x11 ( fully serviced/refurbished 2015)

- Fender 6 and one ball + fender socks

- Inflatable life jackets - 4 standard adult manual, 1 extra large auto adult, 1 child life jacket auto - all with crotch straps ( 2014 )

- Harness x 5

- Jack/safety lines bow to stern ( 2014 )

- 2 x 10L petrol cans for the outboard

- 1 x 20L diesel can for emergency for the engine

- Tools - about £5K+ in total including electric drills, saws etc. - all that you can imagine and you may need for servicing the boat from top quality! ( 2014 - 2015)

- Spares for all pipe related jobs - hose hot 30m roll, cold - 30m roll, all type of taps, valves and jubilee clips, extensions, fittings, strainers etc. ( 2014-2015 )

- Spares for all electric related jobs - clamps, cables of any type :220v; 12v; 10amp; 15amp, bulbs, connectors, fuses, adapters, measuring tools, boxes etc. ( 2014-2015)

- Emergency gel coat and fiberglass repair kit, marine sikaflex etc. ( 2014 )

- Spares for all engine related jobs, impellers, cables, fuses, pipes, oil, filters etc. ( 2014 - 2015)

- Weather station with temp in/out, atm. pressure, moisture meter, sun rise/set etc. ( 2015 )

- Top of the line professional fishing rod with all bites and tools and holder at the cockpit ( 2015 )

- Set of courtesy and hi-quality ensign with wooden pole ( 2014 )

- All paper charts for the mediterranean and pilot books for All med Spain , France, Balearics and Corsica - all up-to-date ( 2014 - 2015)

- 12v hi-power vacuum machine with 5m extension cable ( 2014 )

- Rechargeable light for use in the cockpit in the evenings ( 2014 )

- Diving LED Li-ion rechargeable torch 2000lm ( 2015 )

- Flat LED torch ( 2013 )

- Binoculars x 2 ( 1 x 2015 )

- Monocular ( 2015 )

- Hand compass ( 2013 )

- 4x winch handles

- All kitchen stuff extremely well kept original Jeanneau

- Emergency tiller ( 2015 )



Extra/Comfort Add-ins:



- All saloon cushions from cream eco-leather water resistant ( 2014 )

- Cream eco-leather water resistant with special extreme durable plastic base cockpit cushions ( 2014 )

- Watermaker/Desalinator 12v Katadyn 80E (12L per hour) ( 2014 )

- Watermaker electronic flow meter with LED display ( 2015 )

- Carbon water filter ( 2015 )

- UV - Water filter ( 2015 )

- Air Conditioner ( climatronic) - hot & cold - 8000BTU ( 2015 )

- 26" Full HD LED 12v smart TV/DVD/BlueRay with external 1TB HDD and Banten antenna ( 2014 )

- MyFi with extended antenna ( - wifi Internet on board ) ( 2014 )

- Sea water temperature meter with LCD display ( 2015 )

- Fridge thermostat with NTC temperature sensor - you will not have frozen food and you will still have ice for your whisky +
30% less consumption from your fridge ( 2015 )

- Bimini

- Large Sprayhood ( 2015 )

- Passarelle

- Plastimo ultra light dingy 2.4M with slatted floor + inflatable floor on top + 2.3hp very quite and powerful 2T Yamaha outboard - starts from half turn! and dinghy cover . ( 2014 )

- Davits with rollers for the dinghy - can be kept on the davits together with the outboard !



Electronics Add-ins:



- NASA battery monitor ( 2014 )

- Vectron battery guard with alarm ( 2014 )

- Garmin GPSMap 560 at the helm with advance sonar and full mediterraneen maps and attached to AIS ( 2014 )

- Top of the line EPRB with GPS ( 2014 )

- VHF ( Standard Horizon) with AIS and GPS and (RAM3)remote at the helm ( 2014 )

- AIS beacon/transponder battery powered(one charge 3 weeks) ( 2015 )

- Kenwood stereo with 5 CD changer

- 4 X USB hi-power (up to 4amps) charger points in every cabin and saloon for tablets phones etc. ( 2015 )



Electrics Add-ins:



- ALL LED lights - including navigation anchor, cabin, saloon etc. (2014)

- 240W Solar panels with MPPT controller ( 2014 )

- 600W Wind turbine with MPPT controller and carbon fiber pole + stop switch and automatic fuse/breaker ( 2015 )

- 5 x LFD75 Varta house batteries ( 2015 )

- 1 x 20ah Li -ion engine start battery ( 2015 )

- 6/12 amps charger ( switchable between 6amps and 12 amps)

- Trickle Charge 1.5amps ( 2015)

- Tubular heater 80W to be left ON during winter time. ( 2015 )

- Galvanic isolator ( 2015 )

- 50 amps engine alternator



Additional extras for nice life on board :



- Smart Inverter 3000W - 12v to 240v with remote, auto protection, breaker and fuse with automatic switch from shore power to inverter with hi-power relay ( 2015 )

- Bean-to-cup Jura Ena Micro Coffee machine (top of the line) - very electricity economical and doing the best espresso/coffee in the world! ( 2015 )



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[MartyB]

I just looked back at original post on buying the boat. Frankly, electronics is the LAST thing to worry about. The rust on keel bolts etc needs to be assessed first. The rig might be another to figure out before lots of electronics.

If you can sail some as is local. The depth, boat and.wind speed if those do not work. GPS, Otto, etc. I would do.those after other items have been looked at, fixed if required.

Marty

[so40gtb]

I have to agree somewhat with Marty and David. We put new sails, radar, VHF/AIS, and instruments on Voyageur this year. There were two categories of major electronics failures encountered during the season, which caused me to think a bit about what's most important & necessary.

First, sailing is about moving along the water efficiently. While it's nice to know one's speed and all that, the basics of the windex, running rigging that will effectively shape decent sails, and rudder are the real essentials. Ensure that you're sails aren't blown out ... replace them if they are ... and much pleasure will come your way! Also ensure that the telltales are in place for both normal and reefed-down sailing, so you can optimize shape. And that the reefing is efficient and functional, to be ready for that T-storm.

Have aboard a good set of old-fashioned, chart-based coastal navigation tools. If you're good at position-fixing, you won't absolutely need the depth sounder. Learn your boat's behavior, so that you react to it instinctively, rather than puzzling over instruments' indications.

If fog can be encountered, I would add a MFD and new-tech radar next. The 14-17' fishing boats powered by electric trolling motors are the enemy. They don't sound fog signals. They're difficult to find on radar ... and nearly impossible by vision until collision is near. As much as they deserve to be rolled and sunk, it's your duty to avoid that.

In a virtual tie with the radar is a reliable depth sounder. Fancy not required. Getting stuck is no fun ... and it is most often encountered in harbor where the chart isn't of much use.

The waterspeed, wind speed, and wind direction indicators are all nice, but you get much of the same info from the windex, GPS, etc.

Voyageur has a Standard Horizon GX-2200 with loud hailer to emit automatic fog signals. Nice, but a portable VHF, BPS, and mouth horn will do, too (we also carry all of them). AIS receive is wonderful, for the predicted crossing separation feature and ability to know who you should hail on the VHF when the need to coordinate crossings is nigh.

Develop an annual electronics strategy at half what you can afford. Unexpected other stuff will consume at least the rest. The spelling out of the acronym BOAT is an underestimate! Which I proudly pay!

--Karl

[mphem]

We have a Jeanneau 43 DS and I have just replaced all my electronics. Installed a C140W Raymarine Chartplotter (really big, but wanted to see it without glasses), all my tri-data instrustments interfaced, installed digital radar on the mast (analog was mounted on backstay, which never seem right to me) add a Raymarine AIS transponder and antenna splitter. I think I have all I need. The Raymarine stuff is great, maybe not the best, but very good and easy to use.