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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2015 9:22:52 GMT
Since both the SO37 as the SF37 have the same hull I would be interested in upgrading our SO to an SF. I wonder if there is any place in western Europe where they would sell a second hand mast, boom and rig. How nice it would be if there where some boat scrapyards but so far I have only found one store in Holland where they sell second hand equipment but no gear from recent yacht series.
If I upgrade the mast would it be necessary to also replace the keel by the one from the SF. The difference is only 10cm and about 20Kg.
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Post by MartyB on Sept 6, 2015 3:43:53 GMT
The keel on an ad is led vs iron for the so. A bit more depth than 10cm as I recall. Along with 200-400 lbs or so keel weight.
Mast is all of a foot taller. Boom on the other hand is 1.5' longer. Changing the boom would be a simple cheap cost vs the mast and keel. If I were to do the keel. It would be a bit different than stock. And if i were to do the mast, I would try for at left 3'/1M or so in height. The boom length is crucial, as that allows one to have main traveller in front of the wheel. Otherwise you would not succeed as the boom is too short. That would be.my though by s, not that they are worth much.
Marty
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Post by MalcolmP on Sept 6, 2015 7:45:32 GMT
The biggest issue I suspect is that the SF mast is keel stepped, unlike the SO which is on deck, so you would also need to cut a hole in deck.
On this forum there is an owner in Australia that put a large fractional rig on his SO plus major keel mods , including wing tips - try a search should bring up some info
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Post by hoppy on Sept 6, 2015 7:51:57 GMT
The biggest issue I suspect is that the SF mast is keel stepped, unlike the SO which is on deck, so you would also need to cut a hole in deck. On this forum there is an owner in Australia that put a large fractional rig on his SO plus major keel mods , including wing tips - try a search should bring up some info Here is the winged keel thread jeanneau.proboards.com/thread/2676/winged-keels
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Post by MartyB on Sept 9, 2015 4:27:05 GMT
Reality, I doubt as Malcolm mentioned, one would have to go to a keel stepped mast. As hoppy I believe did, he also got a taller mast, just left it deck stepped. If I was dealing with going taller, I would do the same, leave it a deck stepped mast. As noted before, I would not do it for a foot! 3-5' yes!
Keel wise, i would probably also skip the SF design, and get someone to redesign the keel to one of the more recent bulb style setups. Might allow one to make the keel lighter, but have more righting moment.
Locally there is a RP55 that came to town, it has a literally 750 lb fin that gives the boat 13' of draft. The bulb is 10,500 lbs!
I would think a 400-500 lb fin and a 3-4K lb bulb 7.5-8' down, and a carbon mast 3-5' taller, would allow one to lose some 1000 lbs of overall boat wt, along with a 15-20% higher sail area......should give one more speed in lighter winds!
Marty
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Post by hoppy on Sept 9, 2015 5:01:22 GMT
ReHality, I doubt as Malcolm mentioned, one would have to go to a keel stepped mast. As hoppy I believe did, he also got a taller mast, just left it deck stepped. I did no such thing. Do all Australians look the same to you?
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Post by hoppy on Sept 9, 2015 9:25:37 GMT
You got the wrong Aussie for mast upgrades What is the advantage of keel stepped masts when it comes to performance? Does it allow them to be made lighter and a smaller profile perhaps? Less stays for less windage?
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Post by MartyB on Sept 9, 2015 12:49:02 GMT
hoppy did not do a mast?!?!?!? thought it was him....... must be brain cells that are thinning out..... not sure of the real reason to go keel vs deck stepped. Altho one is if there is a dismasting or breakage, a keel stepped will usually leave a stub so one at least has a semi chance of sailing back to port if on an ocean crossing. Vs one will usually dump the whole rig over if an issue occurs with a deck stepped. Marty ps yess all aussies look the same, especially males.......ugly! females, very nice! then again, us americans have same issue.........
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Post by MalcolmP on Sept 9, 2015 16:44:41 GMT
You got the wrong Aussie for mast upgrades What is the advantage of keel stepped masts when it comes to performance? Does it allow them to be made lighter and a smaller profile perhaps? Less stays for less windage? I think it has a lot to do with tradition. The original logic was that the mast could be made to bend more smoothly if it was keel stepped, but they do tend to suffer from leaks - not only from the deck boot but from holes in the mast further up allowing rain to enter and drain into the bilge etc. I stand to be corrected but I think even the new SF3600 has a deck stepped mast, so I think that the simplicity of deck stepping , plus the advances in rigging wire means that for many boats that deck stepped is the way to go, unless you like wet bilges of course...
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Post by MartyB on Sept 9, 2015 17:58:02 GMT
Deck stepped are a.bit cheaper to build too. Mostly due to.the additional support to the roof from the side to side standpoint. Of course this should be quoted to some character by name of Bob Perry.......not sure whom he is........
Marty
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2015 19:45:22 GMT
Thanks for all the comments. So if I don't find a second hand SF mast and start with a complete new rig I will go for a deck stepped mast. I think replacing it with another keel which is not an SF37 will make it too costly since these boats have a real bilge pit which is located in the keel area.
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Post by MartyB on Sept 10, 2015 2:02:15 GMT
An SF37 mast is probably 8' or so longer overall than your SO mast. 6-7' from top of cabin to the keel, and 1' taller from top of cabin to top of mast. I would look for a mast at least 3-5' as I mentioned of the same Z-Spar spec as you have, buy it, even if off of a different boat manufacture or model! I would also suggest talking to a rigger, or yacht designer to make sure you get all you "CG's" where they should be, or you may end up with too much or little weather helm from a steering standpoint. Leave the setup deck mounted. Would be a much easier way to get the setup done at a semi reasonable cost.
Another mast to look for, would be a carbon mast if you can find a used one. Farr 40's have gone to a different rig than original. So there are a few of them floating around. Bob Perry has designed a few boats using those old rigs for clients of his. Really good used sails are not hard to fine either. As those boat owners generally speaking use the main for a year, jibs 6 months, then replace! Very little use from a non competitive user standpoint as most of us are. Even if you do weekly beer can races, you will be money ahead with these used sails. 30-50 tacks on a jib! then toss.....that could be one long week of multiple races like a Cowes Week!
marty
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Post by petermc on Oct 27, 2015 23:51:56 GMT
Hi all, sorry to wade in late but i thought i would provide a few comments as an SF37 owner As we know, the SO37 and SF37 share the same hull but I know from experience they are not exactly the same. On my first slipping we noticed that the hull noticeabley flexed around the keel, in fact the keel could be rocked slightly and that rocking motion came from a lack of additional brace support for the SF37 keel (which carries its weight lower down), not loose or incorrectly installed keel bolts. The Jeanneau commissioner/shipwirght (that still looks after the boat for me by the way) arranged to have the factory authorise the necessary repairs under warranty - apparently it had happened to a couple of SF37 that had been shipped with the standard SO37 hull and keel reinforcement. All good in the end but required 2 weeks and a lot of warranty dollars to fix - here are a couple of pictures with the additional stringers installed just prior to relaunch Changing a keel is a lot of work but i will say that i definitely point and track higher to windward that a standard SO37, maybe 5 deg. And there is much less side slipping in gusts. David who owns a heavily modified S037 has posted a lot about his changes and those posts are really worth a read, I will say that the thing he has done that has made it a lot harder for me to stay in front of him has been his relatively recent winged keel modifications, they dramatically changed his ability to point higher and track straighter. As far as features of the SF 37 that I think I would find hard to live without now are the adjustable genoa tracks - don't underestimate how much difference having the ability to correctly set your genoa can make. We carry a 163% headsail in winds up to 12/13 knots, then a 145/150%headsail up to 18/20 knts after that we find it more efficient to reef the main before dropping down to our 105% no. 3 at around 22knts+. The headsail is what drives this boat on and slightly off the breeze Re the keel stepped mast, i think it just makes the boat a little stiffer to sail which i prefer plus provides, at the margin, an extra amount of pre bend and race trimming ability. The extra boom length is more critical to power than the mast height I think. The last thing i will mention is trim, we find it really important to think about where we put crew weight when racing, its critical to get the tail out of the water downwind, it can make almost a knt difference, we go so far as having some water in the forward tank and none in the rear when racing I hope these comments help Peter
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2015 7:17:17 GMT
Thanks Peter for your comments. It is good to know about the modification,and for me now a no brainer to replace the keel. BTW, did it solve the problem of the rocking keel?
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Post by petermc on Nov 3, 2015 8:09:48 GMT
Yes, completely solved the problem
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Post by On y va on Nov 3, 2015 14:42:56 GMT
@marien: why don´t u get a nice Epex (Elvström) or similar set of sails. That will upgrade your sailing performance by 10% to 15% instantly. U will point higher, less heel and have more speed overall.
What you have in mind, is just asking for problems or you have to spend loadsamoney to get it right.
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