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Post by hoppy on Jul 27, 2015 6:33:58 GMT
Since buying my boat I have loaded her up with a solar arch, heavier anchor & bowsprit, 2 more batteries, bigger outboard, extra sails, scuba diving gear, plus all of my liveaboard toys and clothes. Before setting off I stocked up with water bottle and soft drinks, which fill the bilges, so it will be weeks before I need to lug heavy supplies by dinghy. I am not seeing speeds that I used to. I have been thinking I have lost 1 knot but yesterday I think I might have lost 1.5. I got some flat water in the lee of an island but as I was close, the wind accelerated down the hills. So I was on a beam reach, full sails and 20 to 28 knots apparent. It was fun sailing, above 7 knots the whole time and reaching 7.7 max. However, in similar conditions when I first bought her, she would have been in the 8's and maybe up to the mid 9's. It kind of makes me sad that I loaded her up and lost so much speed  However as I am living onboard and may even sail to Australia, I'm just going to have to accept it If she ever moves to Melbourne where there is not much to do other than day trips on the bay or race, then I'l seriously be considering stripping her to her basics and store the cruising gear. |
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Post by vasko on Jul 27, 2015 12:24:10 GMT
What is your Theoretical Hull Speed ? Generally on a 40ft ( non racing boat) a real speed of >7 is good me personally I find the weight is not the most important part, but the draft and the hull design... on my 34ft crab pod  7+ is a regular view on full sails and beam reach with 15kt wind speed... and I have added a lot of weight to the boat ! really a lot ! 4 big batteries, air con, water maker, panes, wingen, outboard, tools and etc. may be >400kg and the boat is usually stacked for about 3 weeks no need to go ashore at all... if you are not happy with performance I will look at the sail material/size, point the boom s attached to the hull, and is propeller fold OK, anifouiling etc. is the stern diving deep into the water when you sail ? you may need to evaluate what weight where it is added - non balanced boat can be serious performance issue |
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Post by On y va on Jul 27, 2015 13:19:42 GMT
That´s why fat people are generally very friendly. As they cannot run fast!!
So same goes for your boat. Just don´t go over 10 tonnes all in.
Also very important with "our" boats, is the distribution of weight. Try and get as much as possible towards and around the must. I moved toolboxes, spare anchors, lines and chain all in the lockers near the mast. Makes these boats less bouncy too.
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Post by hoppy on Jul 28, 2015 7:48:09 GMT
It would be nice to know the measurements from the bow and stern to the water of out boats out of the factory so we can work out if they are loaded up evenly.
I have tried to put a lot of heavy stuff centred, but there are limits to how much. My tools are just in front of my nav table and the water and other drinks fill the bilges around the keel.
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Post by touchngo on Jul 28, 2015 18:02:38 GMT
From the top of the transom to the water line is supposed to be 1141mm and from the stemhead to the waterline is supposed to be 1356mm according to the data in the owner's manual. If you are close to that, then all well and good, as this is for an unloaded/straight out of the factory boat.
I second what "On Y Va" says as well, try to keep all the weight concentrated low down around the mast base and over the keel. That's where I keep my tools etc... Sadly, I also have an extra tank under the V berth, and I have 80 Meters of 10mm chain and a 20Kg Rocna. This is countered by two mountain bikes, a 16 KG Delta, an FX23 Fortress and 30Mtrs (20 for the Delta and 10 for the Fortress) of 10mm chain in the cockpit lockers (the MTB's actually live on the port Quarter berth) but by far the biggest lard-ass on the back is the Arch! We don't sail with the dinghy in the davits (but we do hoist it up when at anchor as we have seen way to many upside down ribs and motors when the Meltemi screams through an anchorage).
However....in spite of all this, we are still seeing respectable speeds (8.5 upwind on the log recently in 20knots true, backed up by the GPS).
Are you able to stick your GoPro over the stern and see if the prop has folded? I note that you recently had your standing rigging replaced. Have you gone around and re-tightened everything after your shakedown? If it's not drag, and it's not your rig, then I'd look to your sail trim next, and after all that, I'd look at weight. The boat would normally race with 5-6 80-100kg gorrilla's on board. That's a LOT more than you probably have stowed aboard right now (assuming that you didn't empty your tanks).
Cheers, PT
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Post by hoppy on Jul 28, 2015 18:36:00 GMT
The Other day I was at the bow whilst motoring and it appeared to me that the bow was digging into the water more than I recall. This might mean that the bow is more heavy bow, my imagination was running wild or I've put on weight since I last looked at it
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Post by hoppy on Jul 28, 2015 19:32:58 GMT
The boat would normally race with 5-6 80-100kg gorrilla's on board. That's a LOT more than you probably have stowed aboard right now (assuming that you didn't empty your tanks) But the gorillas can be told to sit where their weight can be an advantage. I will look at what weight I can relocate and one day I might pile up a few heavy things under the table to see how it goes One thing I have not checked is how my log speed is comparing to the GPS. And will recalibrate if necessary |
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Post by MartyB on Jul 29, 2015 2:28:01 GMT
Normal suggestion is for the gorilla to lay off the beer or vino abit ea day.......now whether or not said gorilla can do so is another issue.
How many anchor setups do you have in the front? I have my race and cruise anchor setups up in the locker at the moment. I've been noticing a bit (lot) more weather helm vs when I have just the race anchor/rode pkg up front, with the cruise off the boat, or below near the keel.
Marty
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Post by hoppy on Jul 29, 2015 5:11:26 GMT
Normal suggestion is for the gorilla to lay off the beer or vino abit ea day.......now whether or not said gorilla can do so is another issue. How many anchor setups do you have in the front? I have my race and cruise anchor setups up in the locker at the moment. I've been noticing a bit (lot) more weather helm vs when I have just the race anchor/rode pkg up front, with the cruise off the boat, or below near the keel. Marty I just have my 20kg rocna up front (4kg more than old delta). I have 100m of 8mm chain which weighs something similar to my old 60m of 8mm and the bowsprit Last week close hauled in about 15knots app I found if I turned the wheel 10 degree to the leeward side I could let go and it tracked perfectly. No hands on the wheel and no locking the steering off (which doesn't work). It just stayed on course at 32 degrees to the wind. After 5 min I got bored watching it so I turned on the AP and did something else. |
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Post by vasko on Jul 29, 2015 6:43:39 GMT
Hoppy,
I put all the heavy items inside the cockpit lockers.... this way my bow when stationary is over the water but when sailing the boat tends to lean forward and the heavy items at the stern helps in my case - my simple way to measure is:
when on engine the bathing platform should be covered with water, when running with the wind with full speed and sails only the rubber stripe at the stern should touch the water.
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Post by Don Reaves on Jul 29, 2015 8:20:53 GMT
I suppose that might work for a Sun Liberty. One thing that's not consistent between Jeanneau models is the height of the swim platform above water. If I used that guide on my SO35, I'd really be in trouble! |
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Post by MartyB on Jul 29, 2015 13:05:12 GMT
What is a swim platform?
Marty
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Post by vasko on Jul 29, 2015 18:30:32 GMT
by water on the swiming platform I do not mean that swimming platform is actually under water ( if thsi si true then teh platform will be under the water when boat is stationary too) - just :
1. when on engine push forward tilt little bit the boat to the stern and the wave generated by the moving of the boat is enabling water to get on the platform when on engine
2. when sailing and running off ( wind from the stern ) the boat is titled forward and the ways from the moving boat are not able to get to the platform but still are high enough to get to the white rubber stripe
if you have too much weight central or forward then the water when running will stay well beneath the stripe because of the tilting forward and your boat will be more easy to broach.
same is when you are on engine the boat will not be able to get over the water and will consume more fuel and will have less speed
I will get some pictures next time I'm at my boat in both case to show the 3 states - at the marina, on engine and when running with the wind...
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Post by vasko on Jul 29, 2015 18:36:02 GMT
What is a swim platform? Marty  |
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Post by Don Reaves on Jul 29, 2015 21:25:35 GMT
What is a swim platform? Marty Nothing a racer would be interested in! |
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Post by vasko on Jul 30, 2015 10:56:59 GMT
My theory is for crab pods e.g. perfect balance between cruising on sails and cruising on motor on a fully fitted cruiser with all possible extras |
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Post by hoppy on Jul 30, 2015 11:15:56 GMT
Whilst I have not been happy in the heavier winds, today I have been impressed by her performance I light winds with the new G2. Started at about 8 knots of wind slowly swinging to the west. Started sailing on 100 degrees doing 4 knots and kept that pace to 150 degrees. Beyond that the main was blanketing too much, so I dropped it. The wind picked up to 10-11 and with the G2 only and sailing at 170 I've been seeing 4.5 knots at time. Certainly faster than a poled out headsail and main. No main made the gybe so easy  ? |
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Post by vasko on Jul 30, 2015 13:10:20 GMT
Hey hoppy, I can you according to YB you have anchored in Limini Keriou ( may be seen some turtles , went to Zakintos town - the paid part of the port ( btw - you can always go to the west side - just opposite to they paid part and when the guy from the paid side ask if you want to move to his side or do you want water or help with the authorities - you replay : "No I'm very happy here and I do not need anything and I will report to the port authorities myself." - and you have plenty of water for free from the near by tap+ you do not need to report to anyone at all and be close to the shops and now you are approaching Katakolo |
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Post by MartyB on Jul 30, 2015 13:14:36 GMT
 hmmm, swim platform?!?!?!? not seeing what you speak of which?!?!? hmmmmm    Picture of my rear end, not that it is as good as some rear ends mind you!LOL Marty |
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Post by vasko on Jul 30, 2015 19:31:27 GMT
the best perf that I have managed ever on my crab pod fully fitted a non racer with ALL sails fully out in low wind speed :  Attachment Deleted |
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Post by chuckr on Oct 15, 2015 7:33:04 GMT
Hoppy - you know we sail the 2003 DS40 - first she is heavy and we made her heavier. As full time liveaboards cruisers we have our house onboard. In addition, I have 2 50m of 3/8" chain in the cockpit locker at say 1 pound per foot so 300lbs. We did lighten the forward area a bit by not using the forward water tank and use our center water tank and water maker. Our boat is suppose to be shoal draft at about 5' but full loaded now the last time we put her on the ground was in the San Blas at 5'3". And that was with one of our fuel tanks almost empty. Oh yea we added a 50 gal fuel tank under the aft berth. (sorry for the non metric stuff)
We really never looked at our speed to see how fast we can go but more how is she handling and how comfortable is she. Most of our sails are for hours and we are trying to cover some distance between ports. Our general premise is up to 15kn we hope to make speed of 1/2 the wind. So at 10k if we can do 5 or 5+ great. At 15kn of wind if we can hit 6-7kn great and she is not heeling to much great.
As an aside we were sailing down toward the Corinth Canal this summer with 20kn behind us so I put out the whisker and we were doing a 7-8kn with the wind at 160-170 deg on the boat. When the wind went to 150deg we hit 8.8kn and that was that and we pulled the main. I like the mast where it is and we were in a several hour sail. And we have a bit of a dirty bottom so a bit of drag.
Our goal is not speed but getting there on what we calculate we should and having a comfortable sail without stressing the boat.
OH and remember one thing we are not very good sailors we just get there safely.
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However as I am living onboard and may even sail to Australia, I'm just going to have to accept it 
7+ is a regular view on full sails and beam reach with 15kt wind speed... and I have added a lot of weight to the boat ! really a lot ! 4 big batteries, air con, water maker, panes, wingen, outboard, tools and etc. may be >400kg and the boat is usually stacked for about 3 weeks no need to go ashore at all...
?
