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Post by ForGrinsToo on Jun 17, 2015 4:02:23 GMT
Our SO36i does sail (hunt, or horse around) at anchor as mentioned in this thread: jeanneau.proboards.com/thread/1445/sailing-anchor Attachment Deleted As can seen in the GPS track, we have put a few miles on the boat overnight while actually going nowhere with a Delta anchor well-set in mud/sand and 10 - 15 kts of wind. While there are several suggestions in the older link, we are particularly interested to hear if anyone has had success with a riding sail, and what dimensions seem to work. A 7-foot (2.1 m) by 7-foot by 7-foot sail (about 20 sq ft or 2 sq meter) was recommended to us. Another source suggested about 20% of the design sail area (12 sq m or 130 sq ft) which seems awfully large. Thanks, Geoff |
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Post by hoppy on Jun 17, 2015 5:58:45 GMT
Do you use a snubber? If you do, do you run it down the anchor roller or direct from the cleat to the side?
I use a snubber and my SO40 hunts around like crazy. I have a theory that the snubber coming from the side puts the boat on a bit of an angle and which catches the wind causing excessive movement.
It's only a theory but when I get the chance I want to try either a double line snubber (one to each cleat) or a snubber down the roller to see if it calms it down a bit.
I do have a riding sail and have only used it a few times when moving like crazy in a tight anchorage. Mine is the "7 foot" design. I don't like using it as it presses the backstay against the bimini frame which wears out the bimini there. It works at calming it down greatly
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Post by ForGrinsToo on Jun 17, 2015 13:59:55 GMT
No - no snubber. The rode is just 17 feet of chain to 150' of 3/4 nylon (until this weekend when it becomes 30' and 200').
I lead the rode to one of the cleats at the bow, over the side. The anchor roller is articulated to accommodate the Delta anchor; the articulated section moves and acts almost like shears on the nylon rode. Sailing at anchor would chafe through in no time.
So I'd hoped that leading the rode to one side and sheeting the boom (with sail/sailcover) hard to the same or opposite side would help to stabilize. Within my limits, that was ineffective. I always use a scope of at least 5:1 and often 7:1 (especially overnight). That doesn't seem to impact the sailing either, just the radius of the arc.
Too many posts around the web say they found a riding sail ineffective. Was it undersized? Was it incorrectly rigged? That's why I am asking who has had success, and with what size.
Geoff
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Post by captbillh on Jun 17, 2015 16:20:26 GMT
I had a large Banner Bay Delta #2 sail on a Beneteau 373 which cut the swing down from 80 deg to <40 degs.
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Post by optimystic on Jun 18, 2015 17:59:22 GMT
I run two lines and two snubbers to the bow cleats. So far we have only rotated with wind and current. Nothing extreme yet but it's easy to set up and keeps the boat centered.
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Post by manaia on Jun 20, 2015 20:34:11 GMT
Some friends have used a bucket tied off and deployed over the stern and have said that it slows down the swinging, or you could try a shorter scope on the anchor line (once the anchor is dug in !).
I also went through a phase of using an anchor buddy, or heavy weight attached to the rode, but this becomes less effective when there is any wind , say more than around 15 knots.
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Post by ForGrinsToo on Aug 13, 2015 13:35:38 GMT
I originally asked the question because I wondered if any Jeanneau owners (we have a lot of freeboard) had a good experience with a riding sail - or not. Fortunately, we met a cruising couple who said they even take theirs on charters. So we bought a 7'x7'x7' version in time for our three-week North Channel cruise.  Rigged to the port backstay (above the boom) and sheeted to the bow cleat, we found it reduced our swing to less than half the usual, and used it in winds up to 20 knots. We noticed that there was essentially no jerk on the rode at the end of the swing. I would recommend this to anyone who spends a good bit of time at anchor. Geoff |
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Post by dralyagmas on Aug 17, 2015 23:30:16 GMT
Any chance of more photos closer up?
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Post by ForGrinsToo on Aug 28, 2015 20:33:07 GMT
Sure - next week sometime. I've been through the last batch and none are really any more revealing.
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Post by sleighride on Sept 1, 2015 23:43:22 GMT
In Alaska this summer we ran into a gale and had to anchor in a protected bay in about 35 feet of water at low tide. The wind continued to gust at 30-35 knots and the double bridle on the chain through to bow chalks did not prevent wild swings in the gusts. Out of frustration, I rigged the jib from our 10 foot sailing dinghy on the boom lift after securing the boom from both sides down to the toe rails. I used the spinnaker halyard pulled aft around the top of the mast to hoist the sail up the boom lift. I then ran a short line from the clew of the small dinghy jib Around the boom to flatten the sail as much as possible. Although, this was not stiff and heavy like a proper riding sail, it greatly reduced the swing and jerking motion of the boat in 35 knot gusts. I would use this system again but would prefer a heavier riding sail. However, with a split back stay, I found the boom lift system a good alternative. I have a photo of this arrangement if anyone wants to see it.
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Post by dralyagmas on Sept 2, 2015 4:42:15 GMT
I would be keen on seeing photos
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Post by sleighride on Sept 3, 2015 0:02:21 GMT
 this is the photo of my jury-rigged riding sail using my jib from dinghy. I do not know if this works as a photo since the new attachment instructions are not user friendly? |
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Post by krawall on Sept 3, 2015 3:15:21 GMT
On my previous boat I got a custom made riding sail but never had the need to use. In HK there is either no wind (especially in the anchorage that you choose, well, for it's protection) or there is too much but whenever we anchored it wasn't required.
On my new boat I'd just used some leftover dinghy sails, or anything that has a bit of windage and can be attached to the backstays increasing aft windage.
Remember, the boat sails because of excessive windage and little draft forward. We can't change the draft. You need to bring the windage aft, or the center of wind effort aft. You should obviously have your anchor locker dogged down and perhaps storing a spinnaker on the bow isn't the best idea. Then put all windage aft and this will be a big difference.
I have not found putting things up on the boom (boom end, like in the above photo) to be very effective. I'd always use the backstay for this. As far aft as possible.
On my current boat, a Beneteau 40 I just make sure the bimini is fully set up (which provides a bit of windage, alas of course it's not at right angle to the wind so it helps little) and it can help to build a wind cage with some other left over canvas.
I would say experiment with what you already have. Depending on the wind you may not need much.
I read above tying a bucket to the stern but i wonder how effective this can be because in my experience the stern doesn't move much at all even when the boat is in full swing. It's mostly the bow blown off, starts sailing and coming off the wind and stopping when catching the chain / rode. There is little action involved in the stern.
Our current boat is quite a bit heavier than the 36i so that of course helps a lot.
As said, I would start hanging things off the back stay, try to catch the wind with what you have, reduce forward windage, and likely you see a great improvement.
Tom
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Post by ForGrinsToo on Sept 14, 2015 9:51:01 GMT
As promised, a photo of our riding sail ($200, the sail is 7 feet per side), used in winds over 20 kts with great success. Two hanks attach to the backstay, the main halyard to the head, a downhaul between the tack and the pushpit or stern cleat, sheeted forward to the bow cleat. It seems to work best if set just above the boom.  Swing is reduced by more than half. Geoff |
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Post by zofiasailing on Sept 14, 2015 11:38:04 GMT
Hi Forgrinstoo
Did you have this riding sail custom made or was it off the shelf?
Following with interest as we 'hunt' like mad at anchor even with our bridle style snubber.
The best movement reduction we've experienced has been by fortune and not design. Our deployed dinghy, half filled with water in a deluge of rain and it attenuated the hunting considerably. Has happened 3 times. Not a recommended or dependable solution particularly in a storm!
SV Zofia
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Post by ForGrinsToo on Sept 17, 2015 11:35:10 GMT
Our riding sail was made by Ullman (Cleveland) using fairly heavy sailcloth for under $200 (US).
We went with dimensions from the $130 Sailrite kit (http://www.sailrite.com/Anchor-Riding-Sail-Kit-20-25-Sq-Feet#description), 7 feet per side. Sailrite says their kit can be done on a home sewing machine, which we seriously considered but ran out of time. Ullman produced the sail within three days of our order (which was a condition of purchase), and said they'd made a few of them.
Geoff
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Post by zofiasailing on Sept 17, 2015 13:05:58 GMT
Forgrinstoo
Great information. Will file away for later. We actually have a Sailrite but still practicing with small scale projects and repairs.
Thank you.
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Post by vasko on Sept 17, 2015 14:41:09 GMT
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