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Post by Rumpus on May 21, 2015 7:04:09 GMT
Hi all,
Please can anyone shed some light as to why the bilge pump on our new 409 is wired through a switch on the panel. It obviously allows you to manually switch it on, but it does mean I have to leave the house batteries on when I leave the boat to make sure the bilge pump will still work automatically if there was a leak.
Why is it not wired as "always on"?
The bilge pump quite an important safety feature on a boat.
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Post by hoppy on May 21, 2015 7:21:16 GMT
Mine is wired the same way.
If when I leave the boat I want the pump on, then I leave the house bank on and just the bilge pump switched on the instrument panel.
If it was "always on" then it will be on when you are hauled out.
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Post by Rumpus on May 21, 2015 7:42:05 GMT
Hoppy, Is that a problem to leave it on when hauled out? What if the water tank leaks etc?
My last boat was (I had for 9 years) was wired always live, and that never caused a problem.
When I left the boat, it meant I could switch all batteries off, unplug the mains and do my best to isolate the boat from risk of electrolysis or stray current.
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Post by dilligaf on May 25, 2015 10:29:21 GMT
the reason for the switch is so you can turn off the pump and clean out the filter before the pump. After cleaning the pump filter then switch on the breaker. That way you will not have bilge water on the cabin floor. I always wondered about set up but after cleaning the filter the first time it did make sense.
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tie
New Member
Posts: 1
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Post by tie on Nov 21, 2016 18:42:55 GMT
Hi all,
Please can anyone shed some light as to why the bilge pump on our new 409 is wired through a switch on the panel. It obviously allows you to manually switch it on, but it does mean I have to leave the house batteries on when I leave the boat to make sure the bilge pump will still work automatically if there was a leak.
Why is it not wired as "always on"?
The bilge pump quite an important safety feature on a boat. I just bought a 2009 Merry Fisher and found out the same issue. I have to switch on the house battery in order to let automatic bilge pump to work. My question: Is Jeanneau boat deliberately designed in this way? Or something wrong with my wire or fuse? If yes, why ? Thank you for any answer. This is my first time to own a boat.
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Post by Trevor on Nov 23, 2016 8:36:29 GMT
More fundamentally, why would anyone want to switch their house batteries off, or the start battery for that matter?
Regards,
Trevor
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gui
Full Member
Posts: 40
Jeanneau Model: SO37
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Post by gui on Nov 23, 2016 9:57:30 GMT
My SO37 had the same system. The boat has two domestic batteries so I installed a wire from one of the domestic batteries to the floating switch for the + and to the pump for the - , with a fuse and a switch in the middle of the +.
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gui
Full Member
Posts: 40
Jeanneau Model: SO37
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Post by gui on Nov 23, 2016 9:59:59 GMT
More fundamentally, why would anyone want to switch their house batteries off, or the start battery for that matter? Regards, Trevor Avoid galvanic corrosion?
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Post by JEF on Nov 23, 2016 11:03:34 GMT
Hi Rumpus
Our SO 379 Bilge Pump is the same as described .... factory wired system agree with you this is stupid but that is the Jeanneau way..
Solution speak to Olley @ Seapower Wolverstone 07754 980443 he has rewired some bilge pump circuits on new SO379s not a costly job separately wired in with dedicated fuse box ... job done.
Hope this helps
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Post by abgreenbank on Nov 23, 2016 21:35:31 GMT
It took me a while to fully understand the bilge pumps on my 50DS. I have the on/auto/off switch on the standard panel. if I select on, I can hear the pump in the bilge keel sump operate but not the second pump built into the fresh water pump/tank selector panel. if I select on and fill the keel sump with water I can hear the pump beside the freshwater pump/tank selector operate and empty the bilge, it's operated by a water sensor switch. I think the float switch for the pump in the keel sump needs lots of water to operate the float switch. After reading this thread I will see if either pump operates with battery master switch off, but I guess they won't. The owners manual (English) does not explain how it all works at all well.
regards
ab
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Post by vasko on Nov 24, 2016 0:34:45 GMT
on my old crab pod - I have on/off switch on the panel and automatic switch in the bilge - I just leave the switch on the panel always ON and the automatic does the job... , but is a old time setup.. the viring in the newer boats seems strange to me
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Post by rene460 on Nov 24, 2016 10:58:38 GMT
I have also always wondered about how the bilge pump should be managed.
The basic wiring is simple enough, a selector switch which allows you to switch the pump on continually, or have it operated automatically by the float switch. But the wiring through the panel and battery isolation switches poses a dilemma.
No real problem when you are onboard, obviously the isolation switches would be on apart from when necessarily off for some electrical maintenance jobs, and hopefully the pump starting would wake you if you are sleeping.
When you are not on board, especially if you are distant for a significant time as many of us are, what then?
One might consider it good to have the pump in automatic mode, to deal with minor persistent leakage, due to rain, or perhaps a leaky shaft seal. (More of a problem in a wooden boat where calking between planks can leak.) But what about a major leak? A through hull failure, for example? The pump might initially deal with it if not too catastrophic, but eventually the batteries will go flat. While they last, would anyone notice? What would they do if they did? You might never now. Unless you have some sort of wireless monitoring, including reporting pump status and perhaps a security camera, you would probably not know in time. The difference between pump in action and not is whether the batteries are flattened before the boat sinks or after they are submerged!
When our boat was commissioned, the agent talked us through procedures for shutting down the boat before leaving. It included closing all through hulls and isolating batteries. I think isolating most things makes sense as electrical faults could cause a fire, not to mention galvanic issues. For the same reasons it is probably better, on balance, to disconnect the shore cable, even if it is available. Use Solar panels to keep the batteries charged, preferably empty and clean the fridge and leave it off if you will be away for any extended time.
I have seen boats wired with a main panel, and a separate essential services panel. The essential services panel has limited connections, mainly the bilge pump, plus perhaps an anchor light or even vhf radio, just a few items that you might want available even if everything else had to be isolated perhaps for a fault. It seems like a good solution but for some reason, Jeanneau do not do this even as an option.
So far, I go with the "isolate when away" philosophy, and I monitor the shaft seal when I am on board and no leaks, so far the bilge is always perfectly dry. I suspect if it is going to leak, it is more likely to be when the propellor is turning than when everything is shut down. I have no definitive answers, but I am very interested in the discussion.
rene460
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aquaplane
Full Member
Posts: 32
Jeanneau Model: Espace 1000, 1982
Yacht Name: Seminole
Home Port: Tayvallich, Loch Sween.
Country: Scotland
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Post by aquaplane on Dec 1, 2016 12:48:19 GMT
I don't have a problem isolating my batteries when I leave my boat.
My boat doesn't leak.
If the water tank leaked a bilge full of water would let me know, a dry bilge wouldn't. Same with diesel.
I would be more worried about a boat I had to leave an automatic bilge pump on standby.
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Post by rxc on Dec 1, 2016 19:00:47 GMT
I normally leave my bilge pump on auto when I am not on the boat, but I always have my solar panels and windmill connected, as well, so my chances of the batteries running flat is lower.
It is also my experience that boats in a marina with water flowing out of them do attract attention. Here in Florida, there are LOTS of boats with A/C pumps running 24/7, but the discharges are usually somewhere in the middle of the boat, down close to the water line, so it is relatively easy to identity those streams. Bilge pumps, OTOH, seem to be routed to discharge up high on the hull.
When we sailed in Spain, we would get raps on the hull by neighbors who were worried about the water coming out of our A/C/heater. One time when we were not on board, a couple called the dockmaster. They had never seen a boat with an A/C system, and were concerned about it being a bilge pump. It was very nice of them to be concerned.
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Post by Trevor on Dec 1, 2016 22:12:18 GMT
Thanks to gui for the response to why you would want to isolate batteries when away from the boat. Galvanic Corrosion is between two metals of dissimilar properties so that will not change by isolating the batteries. The through hulls will still be under water and as Jeanneau does not bond those they are simply sitting in the water isolated.
Electrolysis is probably a good thought, that is corrosion caused by stray electrical current. I agree that could cause an issue with the supply of electrical energy to the boat with the most likely place for it to occur being in the bilge as the bilge has electrically conducting salt water near or around the bilge pump. Most people seem happy to continuously power the auto function of the bilge pump.
Providing the switches on the main switch panel are off and the starter motor doesn't have lots of salt residue around it cannot see why any stray currents could cause concern.
If I isolate my batteries, they get no charge from solar panels or the shore power charger. I have just left our boat on dry storage while we travel around in a caravan for a while. I left the batteries connected as I wanted the solar to keep them charged while we are away. Everything is switched off but battery isolators are on as I could not see any reason to isolate them.
Regards,
Trevor
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Post by captbillh on Dec 2, 2016 20:10:10 GMT
I used a male spade connector and ran a wire to the 4th domestic battery with a fuse. Then when i do not have the frig running I can turn off the battery switch to eliminate any loads.
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gui
Full Member
Posts: 40
Jeanneau Model: SO37
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Post by gui on Dec 2, 2016 23:04:11 GMT
Thanks to gui for the response to why you would want to isolate batteries when away from the boat. Galvanic Corrosion is between two metals of dissimilar properties so that will not change by isolating the batteries. The through hulls will still be under water and as Jeanneau does not bond those they are simply sitting in the water isolated. Electrolysis is probably a good thought, that is corrosion caused by stray electrical current. I agree that could cause an issue with the supply of electrical energy to the boat with the most likely place for it to occur being in the bilge as the bilge has electrically conducting salt water near or around the bilge pump. Most people seem happy to continuously power the auto function of the bilge pump. Providing the switches on the main switch panel are off and the starter motor doesn't have lots of salt residue around it cannot see why any stray currents could cause concern. If I isolate my batteries, they get no charge from solar panels or the shore power charger. I have just left our boat on dry storage while we travel around in a caravan for a while. I left the batteries connected as I wanted the solar to keep them charged while we are away. Everything is switched off but battery isolators are on as I could not see any reason to isolate them. Regards, Trevor The biggest problem is when the boat is connected to shore power and if the boat is connected is because the batteries are charging. You can read about here. www.boatus.com/seaworthy/galvanic/
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Post by Trevor on Dec 2, 2016 23:14:10 GMT
Hi gui,
The issues that the article refers to is galvanic corrosion caused by many boats being connected by the ground wire on the shore power circuit, not because the batteries switches are on. When the boats are connected by the ground circuit, they can form a "battery cell' and start conducting through the ground wires.
The electrolysis I referred to is the "stray current corrosion" referred to in the last paragraph of the article.
Regards,
Trevor
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