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Post by hoppy on Feb 9, 2015 18:15:23 GMT
I'm in the process of getting quotes (once again) for a downwind gennaker to cover the wind angles beyond what my Code 1 is designed for. I have decided that if I get one it will be doused by a sock, not roller as the roller will require a design that is less downwind friendly One quote I have received is from North and in the email they included an interactive 3D adobe drawing that you can move around, so cool  I have added a link that I hope will work if anyone is curious to see such a drawing North G2 Gennaker - Adobe 3DThe sail proposed is 110sqm and will work deep right down to 170. I notice in the Jeanneau manual that the mention 108,3 sqm for a spinnaker, so it is a big sail. It looks like it is made of NorLon NO 75 I will fire back some questions to north. I want to know what wind speed range it will work in, but other than that I don't know what to ask. Any suggestions? |
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Post by MartyB on Feb 9, 2015 19:03:28 GMT
With a really large asym, you can get to 15-20 knots depending upon comfort of the skipper. Around there you nee to drop some in size depending upon the where and how you are using the asym.
I have a north genniker with I believe the norlon.75. Personally, I believe North and some other brands offer a better spin cloth. This is one of the cheaper cost ones tho.
I'll probably go with AIRX or Bainbridge challenge cloth in either that .6 or .7 wt, or a combo .6 in the middle, .7 on the outside for better strength when dowsing. Cloth is a bit more costly, but a better quality IMHO. I will say that overall the norlon has worked for the initial design of what I wanted this asym for. Now I am looking for something a bit more high performance from a race standpoint.
just my 02 for what it is worth.
marty
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Post by hoppy on Feb 9, 2015 22:06:56 GMT
Food for though, thanks..
The other quote I have received so far was from a Swedish sailmaker (as opposed to a Swedish loft of an international co.) The offered 2 sails, a cruising version 110sqm made of Contender Nylite 90 (1,12 sm. oz. 58 gm/m2) and a Racing design 119sqm Contender SK75 (0,93 sm oz 40gm/m2). The shape of their sails is very different to north's with much narrower shoulders and therefore not surprisingly only are stated to work down to 150.
Something I am wondering. I know that certain cruising gennaker designs are such that they have dimensions that make them ineligible for racing, but is just an IRC rating or what?
If Jessabbe ever makes it to Melbourne, then I will do club racing and some ocean races. I'd hate to buy a sail that the rules say I couldn't use in the handicap class Jessabbe should logically be in.
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Post by touchngo on Feb 10, 2015 4:30:50 GMT
Hi Hoppy. Where did you get that info from? I raced under IRC for the last 8 years without any issues. Everything got declared and the rating assigned based on the declaration.
I know that certain One Design's (we had a J80 and Hunter 707 racing in our fleet) had to stay in class to have their std rating, but that doesn't apply to an SO40. If they wanted to race with non-std sails, they simply re-rated as any one of does.
FWIW I was the Club's Race Officer, so am pretty sure that you're safe for IRC and/or PYR. Can't speak for PHRF though.
Cheers, PT
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Post by MartyB on Feb 10, 2015 5:20:11 GMT
PHRF is not an issue. All boats have a std base rating. Then deducts or adds for into effect depending upon how much different the sail sizes are vs std, fixed vs folding props etc.
The only issue I can see, is as noted, if saling one design, or not wanting to be rated faster than std, in which case, going oversize would not be in ones best interest per say.......I may go with a phrf code 6 chute which is 696 to 724 sq ft vs under 695 ft for my boat. I would be rated 3 secs a mile faster. But if the SA gains you more than 3 secs a mile.....worth it! I currently have a code 2, which is a 9 sec credit. but I go slower than the 9 sec credit I get. So in reality, not worth racing in the flying sails at times, vs just going with a code 5 main and jib. Reality is, my 155 is a bit more than 155% of the foretriangle, so I have taken a hit there per say.
Marty
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Post by hoppy on Feb 10, 2015 9:36:59 GMT
I had just seen on some sailmaker sites comments about the differences between a racing and cruising versions of the sails and that the cruising did not work for racing. Maybe it was simply that the cruising design came with a too harsh a rating penalty for IRC and other measurement divisions Maybe if or when I am back in Aus and doing racing, all of my sails will be shot from sailing half way around the world, that I'll have to buy new ones then, so perhaps worrying now is a bit silly |
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Post by so40gtb on Feb 11, 2015 3:40:45 GMT
Voyageur has a North gennaker, 0.75 ounce, which works well. We had it up last summer when the wind got into the teens. Above 12 kt apparent, I would (and did) pull down the sock and stow it. Much more wind and I don't know if I could have pulled the sock down.
--Karl
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Post by hoppy on Feb 11, 2015 6:21:40 GMT
Karl,
Last summer I did a down wind run with my code 1 in 20 true and when it picked up to 23 I decided to take it down as I was already unsure how rolling it in would be. I was going at 180 goose winged, so I gybed the main. It blanketed the code one so much that it totally collapsed and I actually had to head up wind a little before rolling.
Ok, the North Gennaker is much bigger and will catch wind but the main will help greatly.
When you douse the sail, do you leave the tack on? I think that if you bare away to a deep down wind angle, pull in the sheet and release the tack, then the sail will be blanketed by the main and the sock easy to pull down.
I always assumed that you would ease off the sheet and tack and then pull down until I saw this video from ATN. This combined with seeing them add a block to the deck rather than pulling the sock down directly, makes me feel more comfortable with the idea of doing it all solo.
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Post by On y va on Feb 11, 2015 11:10:56 GMT
Who says a furling unit requires a design that is less downwind friendly? The whole thing about a furler is to run it on a bow sprit. With that and a barber hauler, you can improve your down wind angles dramatically.
Plus, if you set up your furler unit well, you can run the whole thing from your cockpit, single handed. With a sock that is not as easy (although not impossible).
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Post by hoppy on Feb 11, 2015 12:07:57 GMT
Who says a furling unit requires a design that is less downwind friendly? The whole thing about a furler is to run it on a bow sprit. With that and a barber hauler, you can improve your down wind angles dramatically. Plus, if you set up your furler unit well, you can run the whole thing from your cockpit, single handed. With a sock that is not as easy (although not impossible). The sailmakers I spoke to say that they have to make compromises with the sails shape to fit a roller. If you look at the North design I attached, the head of the sail is very fat and i would guess that could make it less suitable for a roller. I've heard form several sailmakers over the years the same story. |
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Post by On y va on Feb 11, 2015 13:47:21 GMT
But the sail is only attached on the top and bottom, just like a "normal" gennaker. You can install a top down furler to any existing gennaker you have. Only two weeks ago we have changed a gennaker for an Oyster 655 from sock to top down furler. Same sail. Maybe you should look for a better sailmaker!  |
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Post by hoppy on Feb 11, 2015 14:22:43 GMT
As you know the the shape of Gennakers do vary The more to windward it's designed to perform, the flatter it's shape and the narrower it's shoulders. The more downwind it's designed for, the broader the shoulder (to catch clean air not disturbed by the main). I suspect it's the broad shoulders that make a sail less suitable to use on a roller. I would imagine that the main problem is that the top of the sail will not wrap around tightly and flog. With North's range the G-Zero close reacher & G1 reacher are suited to the roller whilst the G2 Runner is not recommended www.uk.northsails.com/SAILS/DownwindSails/GSeriesGennakers/tabid/26986/language/en-US/Default.aspxThe last sailmaker to comment no, was North in the UK at the London Boat Show. Hopefully they know a little about sails |
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Post by so40gtb on Feb 14, 2015 3:28:00 GMT
I haven't reviewed the ATN video, though I think a snatch block strategically placed, to keep it all manageable if one loses grip of the sock halyard, could be a good safety feature when dousing the gennaker. Will try when Voyageur is again wet! Our procedure is to loosen the tack sheet as the sock comes down, which has worked well for us. I would not let the tack loose unless the snuffer halyard was secured to the boat in one way or another.
--Karl
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Post by hoppy on Mar 4, 2015 16:27:58 GMT
Ok, spoke to the guy from North at the Stockholm Boat Show today. He said the G2 can be mounted on a roller unchanged (Bad luck On Y Va said bye, so he can't say "i told you so" ) so I will get an updated quote for the sail on a roller, but using my existing Selden CX25 roller |
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Post by hoppy on Mar 27, 2015 18:17:31 GMT
Ordered the G2 and it will be mounted on the Selden CX25 I use for my code 1.
I have also ordered the Selden Adjustable Tack Swivel which will allow me to ease off the tack rather than easing the halyard. I am however wondering if it is wise to get the ATS as it does make setting up the pole a bit more complex, so I might change that.
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Post by hoppy on Jun 25, 2015 20:14:35 GMT
My G2 has arrived and will be referred to as "Big Red"
I'm a bit annoyed with North as it should have the Selden Adjustable Tack Swivel but it hasn't even though they invoiced me for it. Luckily I have not paid.
Now I just need a mast so I can see what it's like.
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Post by hoppy on Jul 16, 2015 21:03:37 GMT
Flew Big Red for the first time yesterday The wind was very light so with the main up I could only sail between 90 and perhaps 110 or 120  My destination however required me to sail at about 160, so I did something I've never done, I dropped the main  |
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Post by hoppy on Jul 16, 2015 21:12:05 GMT
The new bow sprit with Selden CX25 roller  Since both coloured sails share the CX25, I leave it on the bowsprit all rigged up ready for action   |
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bigred
Junior Member
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Post by bigred on Jul 17, 2015 17:55:39 GMT
That's a really nice setup, and I like the name...
I like the bow addition, but its a shame it blocks the 2nd roller. What's your strategy going to be for moorings?
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Post by hoppy on Jul 17, 2015 20:44:17 GMT
That's a really nice setup, and I like the name... I like the bow addition, but its a shame it blocks the 2nd roller. What's your strategy going to be for moorings? I've used the 2nd roller once in 5 years. If I use my 2nd anchor of the bow I'll just have to live with it going straight to the cleats If I really wanted to make it able to use the 2nd roller it should be no problem. The bowsprit is designed to handle the anchor either side, so if could cut away the wood and add a roller to the bowsprit. |
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bigred
Junior Member
Posts: 19
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Post by bigred on Jul 18, 2015 8:27:41 GMT
That's a really nice setup, and I like the name... I like the bow addition, but its a shame it blocks the 2nd roller. What's your strategy going to be for moorings? I've used the 2nd roller once in 5 years. If I use my 2nd anchor of the bow I'll just have to live with it going straight to the cleats If I really wanted to make it able to use the 2nd roller it should be no problem. The bowsprit is designed to handle the anchor either side, so if could cut away the wood and add a roller to the bowsprit. That's very impressive, with freight to NZ etc I may get something fabricated. Thanks for the posts. |
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Post by hoppy on Jul 30, 2015 19:59:15 GMT
Some fun with the G2  Looking like a giant lobster  |
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